Earth's Future

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ramen07
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Re: Earth's Future

MEZZANINE wrote:Firstly I dont believe in Chaos, all things follow patterns, all things act & react in predictable ways to each other, the more variables you add to the mix the more complicated the patterns, and when the patterns & interactions become to vast and complicated for us to comprehend we call it chaos. Only human arrogance can decide that just because seeing the patterns and predicting the interactions is beyond us it must be chaos lol It's like calling illusions magic.

If you knew all the properties of every type of particle and energy and how they interact, all the exact positions and relative motions at any single point in time, you would be theoretically be able to determine their all there interactions and positions at any other point in time past or future.

Our attempts to 'bring or maintain order' as you put it, to stave off what we perceive as chaos can only be done in the broadest terms, laws, rules, indoctrination, rewards and punishments, more varied and complicated than the 'Carrot & Stick' to control a beast of burden, but basically the same principal, the 'masters' make, enforce and encourage a form of order which will keep them maintain their positions as the 'masters' and keep the rest working to provide for them.


cha·os/ˈkāäs/
Noun:
Complete disorder and confusion.
Behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.


Heisenberg would care to disagree :)

That's the only way progress is made: if someone that does the telling tells another someone to do whatever needs doing. Or, someone with capability of telling and doing, both telling and doing. Scientific progress is (mostly) all based on a structured process. And even when it isn't, the results of that progress is structured into a reproducible process.

EDIT: other than those parts, I agree with what you said :D
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Re: Earth's Future

ramen07 wrote:
MEZZANINE wrote:Firstly I dont believe in Chaos, all things follow patterns, all things act & react in predictable ways to each other, the more variables you add to the mix the more complicated the patterns, and when the patterns & interactions become to vast and complicated for us to comprehend we call it chaos. Only human arrogance can decide that just because seeing the patterns and predicting the interactions is beyond us it must be chaos lol It's like calling illusions magic.

If you knew all the properties of every type of particle and energy and how they interact, all the exact positions and relative motions at any single point in time, you would be theoretically be able to determine their all there interactions and positions at any other point in time past or future.

Our attempts to 'bring or maintain order' as you put it, to stave off what we perceive as chaos can only be done in the broadest terms, laws, rules, indoctrination, rewards and punishments, more varied and complicated than the 'Carrot & Stick' to control a beast of burden, but basically the same principal, the 'masters' make, enforce and encourage a form of order which will keep them maintain their positions as the 'masters' and keep the rest working to provide for them.


cha·os/ˈkāäs/
Noun:
Complete disorder and confusion.
Behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, owing to great sensitivity to small changes in conditions.


Heisenberg would care to disagree :)

That's the only way progress is made: if someone that does the telling tells another someone to do whatever needs doing. Or, someone with capability of telling and doing, both telling and doing. Scientific progress is (mostly) all based on a structured process. And even when it isn't, the results of that progress is structured into a reproducible process.

EDIT: other than those parts, I agree with what you said :D




lol true enough, you did say 'Chaos', not 'Chaos Theory' which is more what I ranted at

Yes yes you effect the things you measure. I should have said if you could take those measurements either without effecting the results or knowing the effect the measuring process had and allowing for it.

As for people being predictable, we all predict what each others reactions will be, what people will say or do everyday in certain circumstances, the better you know someone the more predictable the become.
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Re: Earth's Future

MEZZANINE wrote:lol true enough, you did say 'Chaos', not 'Chaos Theory' which is more what I ranted at

:smt110

MEZZANINE wrote:Yes yes you effect the things you measure. I should have said if you could take those measurements either without effecting the results or knowing the effect the measuring process had and allowing for it.

:smt023

MEZZANINE wrote:As for people being predictable, we all predict what each others reactions will be, what people will say or do everyday in certain circumstances, the better you know someone the more predictable the become.


As an extension of that, we act based on our predictions of other people's reactions, and even our predictions of their predictions of how we will react to their rebuttal.

(and so on)
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Re: Earth's Future

ramen07 wrote:
MEZZANINE wrote:As for people being predictable, we all predict what each others reactions will be, what people will say or do everyday in certain circumstances, the better you know someone the more predictable the become.


As an extension of that, we act based on our predictions of other people's reactions, and even our predictions of their predictions of how we will react to their rebuttal.

(and so on)



Of course we manipulate each other via predictions, we all do it to a degree but I especially like to watch other people try to manipulate, the clumsier and more obvious the better as they are the most amusing lol
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Re: Earth's Future

MEZZANINE wrote:
ramen07 wrote:
MEZZANINE wrote:As for people being predictable, we all predict what each others reactions will be, what people will say or do everyday in certain circumstances, the better you know someone the more predictable the become.


As an extension of that, we act based on our predictions of other people's reactions, and even our predictions of their predictions of how we will react to their rebuttal.

(and so on)



Of course we manipulate each other via predictions, we all do it to a degree but I especially like to watch other people try to manipulate, the clumsier and more obvious the better as they are the most amusing lol


Agreed :D
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Re: Earth's Future

Noobert wrote:I wanted to post here, in hopes to see what other people think of the direction the world is currently heading.

My personal opinion is that we will eventually either do one of the following:

1) We will make this planet unlivable due to the amount of pollution, and waste of resources our ever growing population is consuming for pathetic needs.

2) We will end up fighting over the last of the resources in the world, causing World War 3 to become a reality.

3) We will finally realize that we are destroying this planet with each year, and do something about it and stop focusing upon petty things and focus on doing things for the greater good of the planet.

4) We will focus all of our efforts back into space to explore, colonize, and procure resources for our planet instead of monopolizing everything on the earth.

Mind you when I speak of these four topics it is a very distant future, but I believe these to be a very real outcome if something is not done.

Personally though..I dislike most of humanity now because we are lazy, greedy, arrogant, pathetic, cowardly, wasteful, and stupid. Very few people now a days do anything for themselves anymore. They need everything to be spoon fed to them.

I tell people I read books, and they go "LOL, YOU READ? HAHAHA, LOSER!"

..I mean, really? If this is our future - please kill me now.


I disagree with many things that noobert said in his OP. Essentially though, it depends on the timescales involved and intensity of the effects. The past two hundred years have seen an insane amount of changes in technology and lifestyle throughout the world. Society now if far different, and it's fair to say that in two hundred years society will be different again. Which way it goes is the interesting debate.

To address noobert's points and his possible predictions individually:

1) 'Unliveable' implies that literally nothing will be alive on this Earth. I do not ever believe we can damage the planet that much, unless there is some insanely major accident (1000x worse than a nuclear explosion), which we are not even currently technologically capable of. Increased pollution globally and worsening conditions for life as a result as possible, but we will still survive it, just might not be so pleasant to be outside.

2) A more likely situation. As it was already pointed out we are already fighting wars over what little natural resources we have left. But again I will make the point that it's only in the last 200 years where we have even been using coal and oil in large quantities. If/when it runs out, the human race won't die completely. Infact i'd put my money on alternative energy and fuels being common place by the time the natural resources do run out. Nuclear Fusion experiments are coming very close to creating power, given 10 years they will be viable, clean energy sources. That is why the world has been pouring hundreds of billions of all currencies to those experiments, because our future depends on it.

3) A good ideal, and leaders across the world have already been working for many years to promote and address this. It is a very difficult thing to achieve globally, but people will be forced to do so by diminishing resources and worsening conditions on the planet as a whole. As technology improves in the future it will be less about what it can do, and more about doing it cleanly and efficiently for the good of the wider global society and the planet.

4) There is one single problem with space exploration. Space is big. Vastly so. And we cannot travel through it at any speed. Regardless of whether neutrinos did actually go faster than light, or if the partly unplugged optical cable messed up the results, we still won't be able to push a ship through the global speed barrier. Relativity is a **Filtered** to deal with once sub-light speeds increase close to light. Realistically, without some form of FTL travel, we will not be able to build colonies outside of our solar system. Nowhere within our solar system can support life as we know it, which means it will be far too difficult to colonise elsewhere. Of course, should there be some magical new "unobtainium" that we require in the future, which can only be gathered from the rivers of Io, we will engineer a way to do so. But the general populous will never settle on another planet under the current understanding we have of the universe.


Now having addressed those predictions, I will make a very general predictive statement of my own:

"The future development of technology will dictate the future development of society."

In essence that is the key to the future. The development of technology is governed by the economical climate in the world, as investment in R&D is required to improve technology. When the larger, innovative technology firms hit financial trouble (example case study - Sony in a couple of years) then technological improvements will slow down. But all the while consumers have money and are buying the new technologies, that R&D funding will remain in place.

Therefore assuming our exceptionally fragile and fundamentally flawed capitalistic economical system somehow survives the next 50 years, and R&D investment continues, the next prediction that needs to be made is a technological one. What is the next major step that technology will take? And how will that shape the world we live in?

That is in itself a very difficult predication to make. Take the clock back 30 years, no-one could have predicted the internet or the impact it has had. Many of us now carry around smartphones that allow us to access almost any piece of information we wish at the literally touch of our fingertips. But the development of post-internet technology has followed a trend, useability. Devices are being built to be smarter. Even now voice-recognition is becoming a major influence to the technology companies. I can literally talk into my Samsung Galaxy S2 and ask it to do simple tasks, and it can do them. Over time, those simple tasks will be become more complex, to the point where we will be talking to a basic AI within our pockets.

Once we are there, and almost true AI software is developed, why not build it into other devices. Robotic cooking machines that make your dinner for you. Cars that drive themselves. The possibilities at that stage are almost endless. And yet is far closer than we realise.

Ultimately, it will be the development of a true AI that will really change things. Most likely initially created by a single government to help maintain an intelligence system. It will at first be kept under wraps for a long time, but eventually others will build them too. Within 100 years from the creation of the first true AI, we will have many all doing their own functions across the world. The entire global system could one day be run by them. It's either a very scary thought, or a very comforting one.

~Norbe~
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Re: Earth's Future

On a lighter now, I just watched The Meaning of Life...... again.... sing alone time lol

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at 900 miles an hour
That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way

Our galaxy itself contains 100 billion stars
It's 100,000 light-years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick
But out by us it's just 3000 light-years wide
We're 30,000 light-years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
Because there's bugger all down here on Earth
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Re: Earth's Future

Norbe wrote:Ultimately, it will be the development of a true AI that will really change things. Most likely initially created by a single government to help maintain an intelligence system. It will at first be kept under wraps for a long time, but eventually others will build them too. Within 100 years from the creation of the first true AI, we will have many all doing their own functions across the world. The entire global system could one day be run by them. It's either a very scary thought, or a very comforting one.


I hate to take a little bit out of such a thought out post, but this last bit jogged my memory.

Remember when technological breakthroughs revolutionized entire industries, like the often cited cotton gin and interchangeable parts for guns? Yes, those inventions saved time and energy, but they did not cause the user to do nothing in the time when they would usually be fixing a gun or ginning cotton (yeah I know, whatever :-" ).

But that didn't happen. People used that time for doing more productive things, i.e. fixing more guns or, yes, ginning more cotton.

Now think of a true AI in the same way. it will free up a lot of people to do different things. Maybe it will spark a creative movement, since the "heavy lifting" will be done, or it will give rise to an industry centered on maintaining the complexity of the AI.
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Re: Earth's Future

ramen07 wrote:
Norbe wrote:Ultimately, it will be the development of a true AI that will really change things. Most likely initially created by a single government to help maintain an intelligence system. It will at first be kept under wraps for a long time, but eventually others will build them too. Within 100 years from the creation of the first true AI, we will have many all doing their own functions across the world. The entire global system could one day be run by them. It's either a very scary thought, or a very comforting one.


I hate to take a little bit out of such a thought out post, but this last bit jogged my memory.

Remember when technological breakthroughs revolutionized entire industries, like the often cited cotton gin and interchangeable parts for guns? Yes, those inventions saved time and energy, but they did not cause the user to do nothing in the time when they would usually be fixing a gun or ginning cotton (yeah I know, whatever :-" ).

But that didn't happen. People used that time for doing more productive things, i.e. fixing more guns or, yes, ginning more cotton.

Now think of a true AI in the same way. it will free up a lot of people to do different things. Maybe it will spark a creative movement, since the "heavy lifting" will be done, or it will give rise to an industry centered on maintaining the complexity of the AI.

Yea, It starts by simple things, Then having to fight our wars...but then they became self aware and they turn on humanity causing us to all come together.

But we cant decide to play God, create life. When that life will turn agaisnt us, we will be comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.


:shock: :shock: :smt047 :-D :-" :-$ :-k =D> :smt043 :smt110
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Re: Earth's Future

Terminator?
Ya'll acting like you know what monster is
Me have 25 years in the monster biz
All monsters think you can fuss with this
Well you can talk to me Snuffleupagus
Me sneak into your house, me leave before dawn
Your daughters will be pregnant and your cookies will be gone
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Re: Earth's Future

Dovahkiin wrote:Terminator?



We already have Drone Aircraft, bomb disposal robots and the Azimo walking robot.............. why the hell not :smt043

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Re: Earth's Future

The current a socio-economic order will die. Necessity of life. Infinite growth and expansion is not a possibility on planet with finite resources.

How it goes and where we go from there is anyones guess. Could be bad, could be good.

We're either gonna elevate ourselves to the "next level" or we're gonna have to try again from near to scratch, if anyone survives that is.
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Re: Earth's Future

Dovahkiin wrote:Terminator?

BSG 2003 miniseries at Galactica's decommissioning ceremony.
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Re: Earth's Future

Rudy Pena wrote:
ramen07 wrote:
Norbe wrote:Ultimately, it will be the development of a true AI that will really change things. Most likely initially created by a single government to help maintain an intelligence system. It will at first be kept under wraps for a long time, but eventually others will build them too. Within 100 years from the creation of the first true AI, we will have many all doing their own functions across the world. The entire global system could one day be run by them. It's either a very scary thought, or a very comforting one.


I hate to take a little bit out of such a thought out post, but this last bit jogged my memory.

Remember when technological breakthroughs revolutionized entire industries, like the often cited cotton gin and interchangeable parts for guns? Yes, those inventions saved time and energy, but they did not cause the user to do nothing in the time when they would usually be fixing a gun or ginning cotton (yeah I know, whatever :-" ).

But that didn't happen. People used that time for doing more productive things, i.e. fixing more guns or, yes, ginning more cotton.

Now think of a true AI in the same way. it will free up a lot of people to do different things. Maybe it will spark a creative movement, since the "heavy lifting" will be done, or it will give rise to an industry centered on maintaining the complexity of the AI.

Yea, It starts by simple things, Then having to fight our wars...but then they became self aware and they turn on humanity causing us to all come together.

But we cant decide to play God, create life. When that life will turn agaisnt us, we will be comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.


:shock: :shock: :smt047 :-D :-" :-$ :-k =D> :smt043 :smt110


The collective ego of man won't allow AI to become self-aware. Notice that inventions have become "smarter", but always with an extensive amount of control. Humans don't like to lose control, therefore any "true AI" will be submissive to commands, without the "command override" function that most AI movies show.
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Re: Earth's Future

ramen07 wrote:
Rudy Pena wrote:
ramen07 wrote:
Norbe wrote:Ultimately, it will be the development of a true AI that will really change things. Most likely initially created by a single government to help maintain an intelligence system. It will at first be kept under wraps for a long time, but eventually others will build them too. Within 100 years from the creation of the first true AI, we will have many all doing their own functions across the world. The entire global system could one day be run by them. It's either a very scary thought, or a very comforting one.


I hate to take a little bit out of such a thought out post, but this last bit jogged my memory.

Remember when technological breakthroughs revolutionized entire industries, like the often cited cotton gin and interchangeable parts for guns? Yes, those inventions saved time and energy, but they did not cause the user to do nothing in the time when they would usually be fixing a gun or ginning cotton (yeah I know, whatever :-" ).

But that didn't happen. People used that time for doing more productive things, i.e. fixing more guns or, yes, ginning more cotton.

Now think of a true AI in the same way. it will free up a lot of people to do different things. Maybe it will spark a creative movement, since the "heavy lifting" will be done, or it will give rise to an industry centered on maintaining the complexity of the AI.

Yea, It starts by simple things, Then having to fight our wars...but then they became self aware and they turn on humanity causing us to all come together.

But we cant decide to play God, create life. When that life will turn agaisnt us, we will be comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.


:shock: :shock: :smt047 :-D :-" :-$ :-k =D> :smt043 :smt110


The collective ego of man won't allow AI to become self-aware. Notice that inventions have become "smarter", but always with an extensive amount of control. Humans don't like to lose control, therefore any "true AI" will be submissive to commands, without the "command override" function that most AI movies show.
Well tell that to the 12 Colonies of Kobol, they built robots to do everyday things, then fight wars....during those wars they became self aware by themselves.
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R0B3RT wrote: you are like my wife
you never loose :smt101
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Field Marshall wrote:I don't think there is a single member ingame that could take on the lion at the moment. Not a single person...
I'm a brown nose. Sue me.
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