Child transformed gender by his two mothers

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Legendary Apophis
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Psyko wrote:
form fist wrote:are your serious ? u don't see anything wrong with a 11 year having hormones to stop him being naturally what he is ?

I don't see it as my place to tell someone they can't get a tattoo, or put a ring through their nose, or shave their head bald and wear a wig for the rest of their life. I also do not see it as my place to judge someone who does such things. I do, however, have a fairly poor opinion of people who force their own beliefs and values upon other people, and judge those who do not fit their ideal of human perfection (Hitler anyone?).

Let's not bring Godwin point here, it has no link at all with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot or even Augusto Pinochet. :-k It won't win your argument about people who believe differently, especially considering what you just said doesn't apply only for "bigots" you liberals like to blame for all the troubles possible. The liberal progress-seekers neo-conformists also happen to be narrow-minded in their own scheme of things, even though it's almost the opposite of their adversaries.

The first thing this boy learned to say was "I am a girl." He has two older brothers who could have been male role models to him. Guess what, they weren't. When told he could pick out his own clothes, he chose bras and dresses.

When I was a kid, I didn't believe I would become a Ninja Turtle, but that I would become Ash from Pokemon, and other funny things like this. Fortunately it would have only involved longer hair (even though I didn't pick the haircut for whatever reason I don't remember) and walking with steel balls in my pockets. I didn't go past the idea towards the incarnation of my wish, but you can see that people when they are kids don't really have a realistic view of the world. Also, when I became a preteen, I wanted to become black (do a reverse Michael Jackson thing lol) because I was obsessed with rap. I'm glad my parents didn't say yes and spent fortunes to have my skin become brown and other surgery stuff like this to have my wish granted. I am without a doubt far from being the only example who had temporary strong fantasies that were meant to vanish or moderate themselves with time. Now though, becoming black isn't anymore on my to-do agenda. I thank my parents to not have fallen into my childhood/teenage fantasies or else I don't know what I would be now lmao!!

Most children facing a gender identity crisis have zero understanding people there to support them, so they turn to suicide. These parents--the fact that they are a lesbian couple should not matter, since that has NOTHING to do with the boy's decision--chose to support their child in this decision.

"Support a child in their decision". That sentence sums up quite well why there's a big issue. It's not about the kid wanting to become a ballet dancer (heck there are men who are ballet dancers...) or something like this, but they followed by having him changing/modifying his nature even before he was 18, even before he was 16, even before he was 13!!!
Seriously, I will repeat myself and say "I'm glad my parents weren't silly enough to fall for all my preteen fantasies or else I don't know where it would have ended" (a black Ash who believes to be a Goa'uld as well XD, I'm joking but well see my point?)

But they did not go out of their way to turn him into a girl. They waited until he tried to mutilate his own genitals and then they listened. But they didn't just hand him what he wanted. They are giving him hormone suppressants which will stave off puberty until he chooses to go through puberty. He is likely undergoing counseling to help with his gender identity problems. He has the option to go through puberty whenever he likes, be it 14 or 20, and when he does it can be to become a male or a female.

There are psychologists around who are specialists of children who mutilate themselves, feel bad about themselves etc...but that doesn't mean going against nature or heading towards their temporary beliefs, especially at such a young age! Genders theory is nonsense.

The parents played no part in this other than supporting their child in a way that keeps him healthy and happy. There's no electroshock to un-gay him; there's no shame being thrown around; there is no unhealthy parenting going on.

A typical comment of the "kid is king and we must abide by their wishes" society we live in, leading to the troubles faced as well in Western Nation as in China. Parents are neither meant to refuse everything nor to accept everything. Especially such things as altering the nature of their child at such a young age. It's madness...

So I will not judge them or throw a fit about gays being parents or even claim that this is what is best for him. The truth is that no one knows. Just because we are stepping away from Christian traditions of hiding homosexuality, transgenders, and other gender/sexuality concerns does not mean any of this is new. This kind of thing has been going on since the dawn of time, but they are surviving now instead of being killed or killing themselves to make a world that doesn't understand them happy. Deal with it.

Typically the liberal way of thinking. It's never enough satisfying (and anyway it's always comparing an extreme to the other, "killing them all" vs "they do anything they want", as if there was nothing in between), the changes *must* be done, those who don't agree must shut up, as it's all in the name of so called "progress". *Facepalm*

[Stop condemning what you refuse to understand. He was adopted at age two, raised with two older brothers, given boys clothing and toys, and provided a happy home to do what kids do. Yes, the lesbian lovers CLEARLY forced him to want to become a girl. Problem is, he's nowhere close to becoming a girl...he's just being held back from puberty for a while until it is more clear (likely through counseling) what his decision truly is. Oh **Filtered**, let's shoot him now! Know what, let's shoot them all. Damn fags and their meddling ways!

The parents are guilty of their act, it's not blaming the child here we do, it's the parents, and doctors who support it.
And again, sound like if you said "accept it all" or else it means you want to do an "homosexual genocide". :smt100
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
form fist wrote:are your serious ? u don't see anything wrong with a 11 year having hormones to stop him being naturally what he is ?

I don't see it as my place to tell someone they can't get a tattoo, or put a ring through their nose, or shave their head bald and wear a wig for the rest of their life. I also do not see it as my place to judge someone who does such things. I do, however, have a fairly poor opinion of people who force their own beliefs and values upon other people, and judge those who do not fit their ideal of human perfection (Hitler anyone?).

Let's not bring Godwin point here, it has no link at all with Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot or even Augusto Pinochet. :-k It won't win your argument about people who believe differently, especially considering what you just said doesn't apply only for "bigots" you liberals like to blame for all the troubles possible. The liberal progress-seekers neo-conformists also happen to be narrow-minded in their own scheme of things, even though it's almost the opposite of their adversaries.

For the record, I am not a liberal. I think both sides of the spectrum our out of their minds. My comments quoted above were generalized statements applied to this specific issue. I specifically do not like organized religion because of personal experience, mostly the rampant bible-thumping desire to force an idea upon others and question those of differing beliefs. I do not like when people have walked up and judged/insulted friends because of their lifestyle/hair color/tattoo/piercing choices. I have a poor opinion of protestors who picket a church for their beliefs. I dislike when my own friends will judge a person based on a singular comment or wardrobe choice and begin a 30 minute rant about how said person is a douchebag because of it.

So I had a particular problem with the condemnation of what seems to be a perfectly loving family. Whether it be something with regards to "This is what you get when you let gays have kids" or "what is this world coming to", I took offense to the remarks because I found them to be unjustified based on the information at hand.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
The first thing this boy learned to say was "I am a girl." He has two older brothers who could have been male role models to him. Guess what, they weren't. When told he could pick out his own clothes, he chose bras and dresses.

When I was a kid, I didn't believe I would become a Ninja Turtle, but that I would become Ash from Pokemon, and other funny things like this. Fortunately it would have only involved longer hair (even though I didn't pick the haircut for whatever reason I don't remember) and walking with steel balls in my pockets. I didn't go past the idea towards the incarnation of my wish, but you can see that people when they are kids don't really have a realistic view of the world. Also, when I became a preteen, I wanted to become black (do a reverse Michael Jackson thing lol) because I was obsessed with rap. I'm glad my parents didn't say yes and spent fortunes to have my skin become brown and other surgery stuff like this to have my wish granted. I am without a doubt far from being the only example who had temporary strong fantasies that were meant to vanish or moderate themselves with time. Now though, becoming black isn't anymore on my to-do agenda. I thank my parents to not have fallen into my childhood/teenage fantasies or else I don't know what I would be now lmao!!

My point is that they chose to meet the child in the middle. Instead of him chopping off his penis or hanging himself, and instead of them saying, "Okay, we'll start the process to turn you into a girl," they found a solution that was a compromise. He lives as a cross-dresser and his puberty for the time being is on hold. Not that he was really expected to go through it for another several years, so really it doesn't screw much up in his life. He's essentially a cross-dressing child for the moment.

To me that is a much better solution than 1) having him committed, 2) having him cut his own junk off, 3) having to lock up all long ropes and sharp objects while forcing him to live as a boy, 3) allowing him to start the process of becoming a girl, 4) shaming him for his childlike opinion of who/what he wants to be.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
Most children facing a gender identity crisis have zero understanding people there to support them, so they turn to suicide. These parents--the fact that they are a lesbian couple should not matter, since that has NOTHING to do with the boy's decision--chose to support their child in this decision.

"Support a child in their decision". That sentence sums up quite well why there's a big issue. It's not about the kid wanting to become a ballet dancer (heck there are men who are ballet dancers...) or something like this, but they followed by having him changing/modifying his nature even before he was 18, even before he was 16, even before he was 13!!!
Seriously, I will repeat myself and say "I'm glad my parents weren't silly enough to fall for all my preteen fantasies or else I don't know where it would have ended" (a black Ash who believes to be a Goa'uld as well XD, I'm joking but well see my point?)

You can be supportive without actually agreeing with the child that it is the right decision or fully giving the child what they ask for. A parent can support their child's desire to read higher level books while still being able to decide which books they can read.

Yes, they did modify his body slightly in this situation. I will concede that point. But he isn't even at puberty yet, so how much does it really harm for the next couple of years? They have not added any hormones that will turn him into a girl, nor did they take away any hormones that he was already experiencing; they put in a small fail safe to stop delay the onset of puberty in case he were to go through it early. I admit that I do not know the biology of it, nor the effects that will occur in his body, but it seems pretty harmless to me for the time being.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
But they did not go out of their way to turn him into a girl. They waited until he tried to mutilate his own genitals and then they listened. But they didn't just hand him what he wanted. They are giving him hormone suppressants which will stave off puberty until he chooses to go through puberty. He is likely undergoing counseling to help with his gender identity problems. He has the option to go through puberty whenever he likes, be it 14 or 20, and when he does it can be to become a male or a female.

There are psychologists around who are specialists of children who mutilate themselves, feel bad about themselves etc...but that doesn't mean going against nature or heading towards their temporary beliefs, especially at such a young age! Genders theory is nonsense.

Gender theory is merely a discussion of the difference between gender and sexuality, unless there is another form of gender theory in France. I'm simply not so quick to write off a field of study as you, it would seem, just because I may be skeptical of it.

The kid is likely in therapy. I've not heard of a case of gender identity disorder in children that did not result in some kind of therapy, especially in cases where a medical treatment is undergone.

We interfere with "nature" all the time. That's what modern medicine is. We introduce our bodies to vaccines and hormone treatments. We take pill supplements and change our diets. We try to find cures and we do organ and blood transplants. All of these things were questioned at one point or another. How natural are you asking us to keep things? No, I am not saying this treatment the boy is on is like those mentioned or the start of a new medical treatment.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
The parents played no part in this other than supporting their child in a way that keeps him healthy and happy. There's no electroshock to un-gay him; there's no shame being thrown around; there is no unhealthy parenting going on.

A typical comment of the "kid is king and we must abide by their wishes" society we live in, leading to the troubles faced as well in Western Nation as in China. Parents are neither meant to refuse everything nor to accept everything. Especially such things as altering the nature of their child at such a young age. It's madness...

I do not think the kid is king. I think the parents did neither refuse the child nor give the child what he wanted. It is a middle ground for the moment. He may even decide he does not want to become Tammy at some point in the next couple years. Good for him! He may also be more firmly convince that becoming Tammy is what he feels is right for him. Good for him! The decision the parents made gives him the time he needs to figure things out. Plain and simple, to me.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
So I will not judge them or throw a fit about gays being parents or even claim that this is what is best for him. The truth is that no one knows. Just because we are stepping away from Christian traditions of hiding homosexuality, transgenders, and other gender/sexuality concerns does not mean any of this is new. This kind of thing has been going on since the dawn of time, but they are surviving now instead of being killed or killing themselves to make a world that doesn't understand them happy. Deal with it.

Typically the liberal way of thinking. It's never enough satisfying (and anyway it's always comparing an extreme to the other, "killing them all" vs "they do anything they want", as if there was nothing in between), the changes *must* be done, those who don't agree must shut up, as it's all in the name of so called "progress". *Facepalm*

Historically speaking, anyone who was outside of the norm, including gays and transgendered people were killed for being who/what they were. They were swept under the rug, hidden from society. But society is changing, allowing such sub-cultures to exist and grow. That is what my post was trying to say. It was not to parade a sign around and chant "Progress".

I do not believe anyone should do anything they want. But I see very little harm to the boy in the article. I did not say the changes "must" happen, but I do believe people must learn to accept they have no control over the actions of another.

Legendary Apophis wrote:
Psyko wrote:
[Stop condemning what you refuse to understand. He was adopted at age two, raised with two older brothers, given boys clothing and toys, and provided a happy home to do what kids do. Yes, the lesbian lovers CLEARLY forced him to want to become a girl. Problem is, he's nowhere close to becoming a girl...he's just being held back from puberty for a while until it is more clear (likely through counseling) what his decision truly is. Oh **Filtered**, let's shoot him now! Know what, let's shoot them all. Damn fags and their meddling ways!

The parents are guilty of their act, it's not blaming the child here we do, it's the parents, and doctors who support it.
And again, sound like if you said "accept it all" or else it means you want to do an "homosexual genocide". :smt100

My last comments were harsh, but I do think there are those who believe in such remarks. Maybe not on this forum, but they do exist and the knowledge of that makes me a bit more defensive of someone from this particular sub-culture.

That being said, the parents are guilty of what exactly? Putting a puberty block in their child's arm? Yes. They are.
Does that warrant the comment(s) I saw in this thread degrading them as parents because they are lesbians? No. It doesn't.
The doctors are guilty of performing a treatment for a child at the request of the parents? Yes. That's what doctors do.

It's not as unnatural as you are making it out to be. I don't understand why it is that big of a deal to you or to the others of this thread. But I am more than willing to hear you out.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

it is a big deal ..... IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD

It is against the law of nature to allow two ppl of the same gender to have and educate childs (adopting or insemination) by being their parents. Im sure this is just the offspring of genetics and the end of nature. One day u ll just order yr childs like products at your will and likeness.

Playing God???? whats next ???? The end.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Jedi~Tank wrote:The fact is homosexuals cannot reproduce so why marry lol. They can only recruit and corrupt. It's sick.

By that logic, males and females who dont want to reproduce and cant due to some reason shouldnt marry.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Rudy Pena wrote:
Jedi~Tank wrote:The fact is homosexuals cannot reproduce so why marry lol. They can only recruit and corrupt. It's sick.

By that logic, males and females who dont want to reproduce and cant due to some reason shouldnt marry.



in fact those straights that dont want to reproduce dont marry each-other just to have sex, they can use prophylactics or take measurements to avoid reproducing. Those that cant have due to incompatibility or not fertile are excluded because their will exists.


I never understood why to gays want to marry???? what the marriage means to them? a promise of love??? or to have a family???
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Previously on GateWars Forum
The orgin of Guild
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Lithium wrote:he was talkin bout me and remembering the days i was massing him wit one finger ;)
Guild wrote:is that the same finger you stick up your bum ? :smt060
Lithium wrote:no its the one who gave u life ;)
Field Marshall wrote:Lith put his finger up his bum and Guild arrived? :smt017
I wish that was genuinely true :)
Lithium wrote:oooo why there isnt any emo for this one , id have dropped of chair dead :smt042
MajorLeeHurts wrote:
Lithium wrote:oooo why there isnt any emo for this one , id have dropped of chair dead :smt042
Agreed that was the funnies **Filtered** ive read here!
Im sure JT is enjoying this thread , if he isnt hes in a coma !
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Lithium wrote:
Rudy Pena wrote:
Jedi~Tank wrote:The fact is homosexuals cannot reproduce so why marry lol. They can only recruit and corrupt. It's sick.

By that logic, males and females who dont want to reproduce and cant due to some reason shouldnt marry.



in fact those straights that dont want to reproduce dont marry each-other just to have sex, they can use prophylactics or take measurements to avoid reproducing. Those that cant have due to incompatibility or not fertile are excluded because their will exists.


I never understood why to gays want to marry???? what the marriage means to them? a promise of love??? or to have a family???

Or maybe the rights that come with marriage??
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

[KMA]Avenger wrote:
ramen07 wrote: The fact that he's adopted and that the adoptive parents are lesbians is completely irrelevant.


I disagree. would "his" "parents" have made the same decisions as these 2 have had they been a straight couple (assuming of course they are capable, of sound mind and responsible people)? I seriously doubt they would have allowed this to happen.


ramen07 wrote:Bottom line, his parents should KNOW they shouldn't let their kid make such a drastic change so young.


Regardless of the fact they are queer...i couldn't agree more!


And if the two had been of sound mind and responsible? I don't exactly promote same-sex marriage/romance but I know a lot of gay people that are more of sound mind and responsible than straight people.

That said, the orientation of the parents does lend that particular thought to the problem. But hey, straight people are equally as capable of being terrible parents. That I've seen first-hand.

Lithium wrote:
Rudy Pena wrote:
Jedi~Tank wrote:The fact is homosexuals cannot reproduce so why marry lol. They can only recruit and corrupt. It's sick.

By that logic, males and females who dont want to reproduce and cant due to some reason shouldnt marry.



in fact those straights that dont want to reproduce dont marry each-other just to have sex, they can use prophylactics or take measurements to avoid reproducing. Those that cant have due to incompatibility or not fertile are excluded because their will exists.


I never understood why to gays want to marry???? what the marriage means to them? a promise of love??? or to have a family???


There are a lot of rights that marriages give that civil unions don't. Something to the order of 1,200?
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

but the nature laws are against. gays can live and marry if they want but they cant overcome the nature laws. how could a child grow up seing his two fathers having a morning kiss or whatever???? it ll look natural to him while he grows but when he faces the 90% of the world population is different then he/she ll have a culture shock and face personality disorders, and we know what these disorders cause to ppl adult life.
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Previously on GateWars Forum
The orgin of Guild
Spoiler
Lithium wrote:he was talkin bout me and remembering the days i was massing him wit one finger ;)
Guild wrote:is that the same finger you stick up your bum ? :smt060
Lithium wrote:no its the one who gave u life ;)
Field Marshall wrote:Lith put his finger up his bum and Guild arrived? :smt017
I wish that was genuinely true :)
Lithium wrote:oooo why there isnt any emo for this one , id have dropped of chair dead :smt042
MajorLeeHurts wrote:
Lithium wrote:oooo why there isnt any emo for this one , id have dropped of chair dead :smt042
Agreed that was the funnies **Filtered** ive read here!
Im sure JT is enjoying this thread , if he isnt hes in a coma !
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Lithium wrote:but the nature laws are against. gays can live and marry if they want but they cant overcome the nature laws. how could a child grow up seing his two fathers having a morning kiss or whatever???? it ll look natural to him while he grows but when he faces the 90% of the world population is different then he/she ll have a culture shock and face personality disorders, and we know what these disorders cause to ppl adult life.

What? No. It's not as if the child will be secluded from the world and the only healthy relationship they will ever witness is between two people of the same gender. The child will watch tv, go to school, read books, join sports with other children, etc. And all the while he will be introduced to other types of families and relationships. There will be very little, if any, culture shock because the child will be exposed to something different from his home life on a daily basis. And it's not as if gay couples are going to teach their child that their type of relationship is the norm. They are going to tell their child they may be bullied or hear their classmates insult their parents, and educate the child more thoroughly on how the world works.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

It's quite the abomination, not just because the parents are gay, not because the doctors don't have half a mind or half a moral state NOT to do the operation, but because they listened to an 8 years old?! And 8 year old child, on this?! It's mind bending! The child had NO idea what it wants at 8 years old and it's ludicrous to think otherwise. The parents are clearly unfit for their roles for allowing this to happen. The doctos are out of their minds for even considering doing it and not calling child support.

Psyko, you don't have children as far as i know. Nor do i, but i know people that do. Psychologists and psychiatrists and i've asked them, they were shocked beyond belief that someone would allow this to happen and couldn't stop talking about the ramifications. How could they do this? That child has no idea what it wants, it can be manipulated by them unknowingly, by friends and so on. There's a legal age for a reason and this reason is good one.

Here, i'll put the finger on the wound for you. I don't agree with same sex marriages and same sex parenting. Just because something is hip ( because it is, this whole boom is well orchestrated and i see people who are speaking against it are called all the bad things for even having an oppinion ) doesn't mean it's also good. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

Also, i see you don't really judge right from wrong. Just what YOU CAN DO and what YOU NEED and what YOU SHOULD HAVE.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Malx wrote:It's quite the abomination, not just because the parents are gay, not because the doctors don't have half a mind or half a moral state NOT to do the operation, but because they listened to an 8 years old?! And 8 year old child, on this?! It's mind bending! The child had NO idea what it wants at 8 years old and it's ludicrous to think otherwise. The parents are clearly unfit for their roles for allowing this to happen. The doctos are out of their minds for even considering doing it and not calling child support.

Psyko, you don't have children as far as i know. Nor do i, but i know people that do. Psychologists and psychiatrists and i've asked them, they were shocked beyond belief that someone would allow this to happen and couldn't stop talking about the ramifications. How could they do this? That child has no idea what it wants, it can be manipulated by them unknowingly, by friends and so on. There's a legal age for a reason and this reason is good one.

Here, i'll put the finger on the wound for you. I don't agree with same sex marriages and same sex parenting. Just because something is hip ( because it is, this whole boom is well orchestrated and i see people who are speaking against it are called all the bad things for even having an oppinion ) doesn't mean it's also good. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

Also, i see you don't really judge right from wrong. Just what YOU CAN DO and what YOU NEED and what YOU SHOULD HAVE.

Being gay is not "hip" to most people. Yes, some people experiment and/or follow trends due to the popularity or novelty of it, but to think that being gay is a choice for everyone is ludicrous! Gay people do not chose to live a life that singles them out from the rest of society, causes them to be bullied or threatened as children/teens, or live a life as a second-rate citizen "just because it is hip". I have friends who have gone through so many horrible things in their lives just because of the sex of who they are attracted to, and I get very upset with people who insult their integrity by claiming they chose to go through what they did, or that they deserve it for "what" they are, or any number of other ridiculous things.

So yeah, I get a little fired up with gay rights come into play. These women should not be judged as parents simply because of their sexual orientation. Fine, you can judge them by their decision to help their child figure out who he is or wants to be, that is perfectly acceptable and done all the time to parents all over the world. But to judge a couple based upon what genitalia they both possess is narrow-minded and silly.

Yes, I can see where there might be psychological harm to the child. Which is why I have said repeatedly that he had better be seeing a shrink on a regular basis. But physically the child has suffered no damage. No doctor would ethically be able to perform any care for a patient if they knew it could cause harm. I hardly see any reason to have the child removed from the custody of his parents. Nor do I see reason to go after the doctor(s) related to the case.

Then again, my opinion is not based upon my religion or a personal prejudice against any party involved in this entire case. Maybe that is what makes my opinion different from most of the people who've posted. I believe homosexuals, transsexuals, transgenders, pansexuals, asexuals, and hermaphrodites are all people who should be given the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else in this country. Too many people get wrapped up in the labels that they forget these are human beings that live, laugh, and fall in love just like they do. It's not a choice, it's not what they are, it's a part of who they are. They are cousins, brothers, sisters, aunts, sons, daughters, friends, students, teachers, bosses, employees, PEOPLE just like everyone else, and they should have the same rights as the rest of us.

That's one of the few "liberal" opinions that I have and I wouldn't change a damn thing about it.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

At young age, with sign language ... the boy's FIRST words ... "I am a girl"
who do you think 'taught' him those words ? The kid sure as hell didn't think it up himself.
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Duck Dodgers wrote:At young age, with sign language ... the boy's FIRST words ... "I am a girl"
who do you think 'taught' him those words ? The kid sure as hell didn't think it up himself.

I can't argue for or against that point. However, I should be able to 99.9% correctly assume he learned the alphabet first. :-"
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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Psyko wrote:
Duck Dodgers wrote:At young age, with sign language ... the boy's FIRST words ... "I am a girl"
who do you think 'taught' him those words ? The kid sure as hell didn't think it up himself.

I can't argue for or against that point. However, I should be able to 99.9% correctly assume he learned the alphabet first. :-"


Actually ... no

They learn 'signs' not individual letters .. the old sign language is like that, the new one (latest 20 years or so) is with signs which represents complete words ;)

individual letters come at a later stage where they use it to spell names.

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Re: Child transformed gender by his two mothers

Psyko wrote:I can't argue for or against that point. However, I should be able to 99.9% correctly assume he learned the alphabet first. :-"




When we say "learned first" i assume we are talking first words uttered? if that is the case then, as a farther of 3 boys-i can assure you Psyko with some degree of accuracy and experience...it wasn't their A B C's they learned/said first.

My eldest first word was "car" because he liked to sit on my mums lap looking out the window at the cars going by. my youngest first words were uma uma, so it's a safe bet he was trying to say "mum".
Not 100% sure with the middle one, but i think it was daddy.

All 3 of my boys were standing and trying to form words within 8 months because we spent MANY hours holding them up on their legs and talking to them. my eldest for example had a huge vocabulary for his age and was holding complete conversations with people at 2 n half.


As for sign language, every baby is different and their motor controls develop at differing ages but for at least the first 6 to 8 months their movements are completely random...i know this from the amount of slaps and kicks i received.
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