The Pirate Bay Blocked in the UK.

[Ashu]

Did TPB steal anything? No.
Did TPB pirate anything? No.
They merely hosted content with a disclaimer that whatever has been put on their website is within the responsability and grasp of the entity in cause. How is it their fault?

You say pirating is bad? I wish to see specific studies and numbers that show how pirating has hurt ANY industry.

[Drought]

Without the torrent files, you can not download them.
The torrent files contain direct links to resources providing the downloadable content.
Whether its in some cloud, private server, or p2p, the torrent files are the direct connection to acquiring the files. So yes, in effect, sites offering these informational packages are in the wrong to do so, at least for the illegal content.

And how they solve it with checking, is up to the business end.
Because there is simply something wrong with their business formula.

Its like storing drugs in your house for someone, then complain they are not yours when you get arrested for having illegal drugs in house.

[[KMA]Avenger]

As far as illegal sharing of copyrighted/intellectual property goes (and has been said more times than can be counted), and stating the obvious, if these so called big entertainment company's released stuff quicker and cheaper, torrent sites would die a quick death. lets face it, who in their right mind (except someone who is a REAL tightarse), would watch a horrible CAM-job when they can get the same film in HD for just a few £'s/$'s whatever.

The entertainment industry is making more money now than it has ever done in it's 100+year history, they have no cause to complain. as consumers we have the right to demand fairer prices and quicker release times....if the industry refuses to comply with customer wishes, well they deserve to lose money and for sites such as TPB to exist.


Personally, i refuse to go to the cinema any more, noisy bastards and their phones and a lack of respect for those who have shelled out hard earned money to watch a film in peace has seen to that (though i might make an exception for Prometheus), that and the fact i have a top of the range large screen (and i mean LARGE) TV and full on 7.1 surround sound system makes watching a film like Prometheus, Avatar, Avengers and so on a more personal and pleasurable experience.

[Legendary Apophis]

You say pirating is bad? I wish to see specific studies and numbers that show how pirating has hurt ANY industry.

I would like to see specific studies and numbers that prove it didn't.


@Avenger, I suppose it depends on the country regarding 'fair prices', I saw prices in the UK for DVDs/Blu-rays were a bit high...at least compared to prices I see in shops or online shops in my country. I suppose taxes determine price difference. Would mean the UK taxes more DVDs/Blu-Rays than France does.

[[KMA]Avenger]

@Avenger, I suppose it depends on the country regarding 'fair prices', I saw prices in the UK for DVDs/Blu-rays were a bit high...at least compared to prices I see in shops or online shops in my country. I suppose taxes determine price difference. Would mean the UK taxes more DVDs/Blu-Rays than France does.

Oh of course, national taxes plays a big part in determining prices, but i'm sure the entertainment industry (and other industries also) are milking every penny they can get from the consumers.

[MEZZANINE]

Have to agree with KMA on the overinflated and greedy prices, if movies had reasonable prices most people would pay for perfect copies rather than download ones that are often far from perfect

How can profits in the 100s of millions be reasonable, how can paying a movie star 10s of millions for a few months 'work' be right when most people earn less than 20K pa for real work !!! Is it any wonder people refuse or simply cant put more money in these greedy pockets.

But

Also the timing has a lot to do with it, why are US movies released in US first ? It doesnt matter where things are made in a global marketplace, they shoot themselves in the foot, many people download out of impatience and if movies had the same release date worldwide that would also lower illegal downloads

[[KMA]Avenger]

Have to agree with KMA on the overinflated and greedy prices, if movies had reasonable prices most people would pay for perfect copies rather than download ones that are often far from perfect

How can profits in the 100s of millions be reasonable, how can paying a movie star 10s of millions for a few months 'work' be right when most people earn less than 20K pa for real work !!! Is it any wonder people refuse or simply cant put more money in these greedy pockets.

But

Also the timing has a lot to do with it, why are US movies released in US first ? It doesnt matter where things are made in a global marketplace, they shoot themselves in the foot, many people download out of impatience and if movies had the same release date worldwide that would also lower illegal downloads

All of which is as i said...obvious...obvious that is to you and me.

[Kit-Fox]

Also KMA, while your screaming censorship, I'd like to point out that rather a lot of the internet is inaccessible to UK users its just that most people dont realise this.

Sites belonging to proscribed organisations are blocked by nominet for example

The IWF blocks things like beastiality / child pornography & other similar material considered to break what our law considers 'grossly offensive'

Both Nominet & The IWF by the way are entirely private organisations, not government bodies.

Each ISP in the UK also run their own blocklists which contains things they have determined are unsuitable for their network.

EDIT: This isnt just a digital domain problem either, print publishers are required to adhere to our laws regarding 'grossly offensive' content, the same for importers of physical media.

[[KMA]Avenger]

if you want to defend the freedom of the web you have to defend ALL of it. that does not include sites that host and promote paedophilia, snuff films, violent and extremist/terrorism activities and such.

[Kit-Fox]

Not all of the material is illegal however, the IWF is well known for adding to its blocklist totally harmless websites.

For example do you recall wikipedia getting blocked by them a couple of years ago??

And all but one UK ISP uses the IWF blocklist.

The same goes for the nominet list & the lists maintained by ISPs themselves, they dont always contain illegal content.

Also remember that our obsecentiy laws are quite old whats considered illegal by them includes rather a lot, that today wouldnt even raise an eyebrow.

And you cant defend the freedom of the internet by selectively deciding which bits of it you wish to defend, you either have to defend all of it with the nasty bits included or none at all otherwise your just a hypocrite like the rest of us. After all no one said freedom was nice you know

[[KMA]Avenger]

You do make some greats points i agree with.

This subject will remain controversial and difficult to discuss without ending up hypocritical, where do you draw the line on freedom!?! for me the answer is obvious, as long as no one (head of that list is Govt) does me any harm or fraud (and visa versa) then nobody has any jurisdiction over me or what i do in private.

As you know i advocate freedom in a big way, freedom of speech, freedom from Govt and so on, but even that freedom must (and does) have it's limitations. IE, i can't (and rightly so) walk down the street screaming kill all blacks/Jews/Muslims/atheists/gays/Christians etc etc etc. i also can't go down the street preaching hate to people, or for people to blow stuff up or other people. by the same token, the net needs to remain free along those lines, as you i and others have stated. but even that freedom needs to be policed, but in the right way. anything preaching hate, acts of violence, sexual acts against minors and so on should rightly be policed and dealt with. that should not include torrent sites or sites that promote sexuality, even if it's a sexual activity i find sickening such as bestiality....none of which applies to sites like TPB.

[MEZZANINE]

Hmmm.. the 'do no harm to others' and anything else goes argument

In principal I agree with that


The problems come with differing definitions of what constitutes 'doing harm'

I think most ( Hopefully all ) here would agree that sexual or violent exploitation, cruelty to animals and other things of that nature cause suffering and do real physical harm, and would not object to IPSs banning websites that offer these things.

BUT

On topic for this thread ( The Pirate Bay ), Film & TV distributors will argue online download sites 'harm' their business by enabling theft on a grand scale.

For all kinds of censorship their will always be arguments by someone to justify that censorship, and the fact is anything that benefits one group of people will always be detrimental to an opposing group of people.

Policing Freedom..... now there's an oxymoron for you lol

[Jack]

You say pirating is bad? I wish to see specific studies and numbers that show how pirating has hurt ANY industry.

I would like to see specific studies and numbers that prove it didn't.

How about you cite the sources that prove piracy has had a negative effect on the entertainment industries.

The industry is making a claim, you are agreeing with this claim. So please, provide us with the evidence that has brought to you certainty that this claim is accurate.

[Drought]

Movie and Music aren't that much hurt by file-sharing, if anything, its free advertisement for many of them. Shows like BSG where deliberately released on the net to draw attention to it.

Very often have I read and heard about people listening to new music and purchasing their own hard copy.

But the impact on the software industry must be rather huge, take this forum for example, all the 'sig makers' should we ask how many of them have their own copy of Photoshop ? Or a wide variety of games. Yes some people buy the games they downloaded, but how many gamers still buy a hard-copy when they finished the game on their illegal copy.

Those who claim file-sharing of software and all the cracks, keys and patches, are not depriving the developers from their piece of the pie, are deliberately ignorant with a hint of biased.

[Jack]

You're jumping to conclusions, making assumptions absent any real information.