Speed up APP conversion

[~Tziki~]

Why bother replying when I'll just say the same stuff over and over? Tziki hasn't shown any reason that the APP converting on TC isn't beneficial when compared to a normal farming person.

Yes i have, several times.
But as stated, the votes say all that needs to be said. if 75% of people dont like it, its logical to change it in their favour regardless of reasoning and comparative numbers, the only real question is how should it be sped up.

[Sol]

Why bother replying when I'll just say the same stuff over and over? Tziki hasn't shown any reason that the APP converting on TC isn't beneficial when compared to a normal farming person.

Yes i have, several times.
But as stated, the votes say all that needs to be said. if 75% of people dont like it, its logical to change it in their favour regardless of reasoning and comparative numbers, the only real question is how should it be sped up.

No you haven't , show me where you point out it's NOT beneficial compared to a person that doesn't generate APP (preferably one where I haven't disproved it ).
Ehhh let me reiterate what I've said in this thread before... yes of course people want more **Filtered**. Why do you think the dmu leak was favored by everyone? Because it benefits them. I bet in a years time people will cry out about new players not being able to catch up because of the quints of dmu 'leaked' into the game.
You see it in wars all the time.
People suggest things that benefit them, they can't see past their perception of the game. Is it wrong? Not really. But just because people want something, because it's "their game", because "more votes favor it" doesn't mean I should give it to them.
Case and point; Admin J and all the updates he has done through admin meets when surprise surprise, a war is on.

It's why this vote is fundamentally corrupted, technically all are, but I usually take out the general reception -needs/wants- of an idea by the genuine logical discussion in the thread.

[~Tziki~]

war or not, the votes are from a wide variety of players on both sides of the fence. Which voids the concept that its because one side wishes to use it to gain an advantage over the other. It is, in general just a greatly desired improvement.

The main issue is a lot of people abused the system before there was any cap on when you can get your LFC or how much you could get (i did too during one of my ascentions, though not aswell as id have liked). Those are now the people that sit their enjoying themselves and crying they want things left as it is. because they already abused it and will continue to keep that advantage for aslong as people are kept under a cap. its inconsistency that causes half the issue.

But none the less neither proposal suggests it should all be instant again, and everyone agree's some measure of a cap is required. It is just merely the size of the cap that is being questioned. Again, by both sides of the current war.

i went into great detail of the possibly numbers achieved with both types of ascended accounts, and proved the requirement to speed it up, to which your counter argument was particularly weak.

but looking back at those numbers for amounts that can be farmed on average, and compare them to the top 10 ranks of DMU farmed in 14 days...

RANK NAME RACE DMU stolen
1 **Anonymous** INDU 487,835,377,361,617,088
2 **Anonymous** TOLAH 338,963,049,940,305,792
3 **Anonymous** INDU 331,268,327,622,376,000
4 **Anonymous** INDU 320,781,277,283,553,536
5 **Anonymous** ORI 296,313,381,462,169,152
6 **Anonymous** INDU 261,514,230,237,045,600
7 **Anonymous** ORI 260,448,666,667,157,568
8 **Anonymous** INDU 248,300,485,037,797,376
9 **Anonymous** ORI 232,472,053,961,452,224
10 **Anonymous** ORI 228,080,079,672,887,552

some are almost double that amount (without app generation included) some are closer to the amount stated (again, not including app)

but these amounts in the above quote are far greater than that generated through APP and farming. Which again proves there is still a substantial gap between those who farm with full amount of turns and those who have to wait on app and have less AT's. Which in turn is the opposite of what should be the case. the APP should give you a slight edge over regular farming, its supposed to give you a little boost compared to an acc that isnt ascending any more (they have done their ascentions and their APP has finished converting, or was instantly used)

as it stands, thats not the case. APP conversion inhibits your farming and therefore makes you farm less, which is the exact opposite of what it was intended to do. (give you a little boost ontop of regular play)

so, as is made obvious. The app conversion isnt quite at the sweet spot in relation to just farming.

In addition to that, there is also the fact that the conversion is tiered. which means not only is it VERY slow at smaller sizes, but it takes a long time to get above 20b planet count anyway (e.g. i have a relatively good CER and im still not there, despite being conservative with my planet usage, god knows how long it would take if you played more aggressively.
So not only is the full 1t/day conversion too little, the tiered idea of it is also gimping the concept of it aswell and making those under 20b planets even more at a disadvantage.



in short....

conversion needs to be increased to some degree AND
tiered stages of conversion need to be reworked

Or

Tiered stages of conversion need to be removed AND
conversion increased very slightly (slightly less compared to above option)

[Sol]

war or not, the votes are from a wide variety of players on both sides of the fence. Which voids the concept that its because one side wishes to use it to gain an advantage over the other. It is, in general just a greatly desired improvement.

The votes don't even account for a tenth of the active users. Even so, I bet nearly all of the yes voters have app and the no voters do not.

RANK NAME RACE DMU stolen
1 **Anonymous** INDU 487,835,377,361,617,088
2 **Anonymous** TOLAH 338,963,049,940,305,792
3 **Anonymous** INDU 331,268,327,622,376,000
4 **Anonymous** INDU 320,781,277,283,553,536
5 **Anonymous** ORI 296,313,381,462,169,152
6 **Anonymous** INDU 261,514,230,237,045,600
7 **Anonymous** ORI 260,448,666,667,157,568
8 **Anonymous** INDU 248,300,485,037,797,376
9 **Anonymous** ORI 232,472,053,961,452,224
10 **Anonymous** ORI 228,080,079,672,887,552

some are almost double that amount (without app generation included) some are closer to the amount stated (again, not including app)

but these amounts in the above quote are far greater than that generated through APP and farming. Which again proves there is still a substantial gap between those who farm with full amount of turns and those who have to wait on app and have less AT's. Which in turn is the opposite of what should be the case. the APP should give you a slight edge over regular farming, its supposed to give you a little boost compared to an acc that isnt ascending any more (they have done their ascentions and their APP has finished converting, or was instantly used)

What if all of those people generated LF from APP as well?
APP was never meant to singularly supersede farming, it was a supplement to farming, and as a minor booster to new accounts. As it is now.
That being said, we can assume that top one isn't even a true farmer, and we calculated about 230 q on average you can get using half the work and APP. So already you're still 'better off' than anyone below the 9th best.

In addition to that, there is also the fact that the conversion is tiered. which means not only is it VERY slow at smaller sizes,

It's a 400 bill LF min. That's massive for new accounts that can't farm up due to the 1/5th.

[~Tziki~]

400b lf a turn, which means nothing because you still cant farm to improve your fleets to coincide with the LFC you may put into your charisma.

if the voters dont count for the amount of active users, then post an announcement ingame to get them here, the fact they havent looked proves they arent really "ACTIVE" users, and only semi active.

i very much doubt all those people generated the full APP/LFC conversion aswell as farming, as frankly they just wouldnt have the turns, its more likely they used a NG account to farm for them to double their AT's which furthers the gap of possible farming even more. Should you create an NG account to do the same you are then faced AGAIN with the option of how you ascend. do you care about your acc and want the app (there fore screwing that accounts turns potential aswell) or ignore it, have a **Filtered** acc. feed your main acc, and have one acc that can farm/generate perhaps 75% of those with no APP conversion happening and another account that can potentially farm equal amounts (given they have built enough CER and planets to farm the same sized players) which would still put you at 175% total potential in comparison to those with full AT's.


so will you consider allowing ALL accounts to filter a set value of LF into a seperate basket (taking a total of 2 weeks to complete) so that everyone can refill their turns without **Filtered** them over?
Since the logical option is being ignored, and the numbers are repeatedly overlooked and picked at in a bias manner. This then must be the only option left that you cant dispute?

[Sol]

400b lf a turn, which means nothing because you still cant farm to improve your fleets to coincide with the LFC you may put into your charisma.

covert LF to dmu. Will provide a decent amount of dmu (400 bill = 400 tril dmu, plenty). Actually you can almost buy a 100 mill CER in 1 week with that. Costs about 2.9 q for 220k fleets and about 250 t LF for 665 charisma.

if the voters dont count for the amount of active users, then post an announcement ingame to get them here, the fact they havent looked proves they arent really "ACTIVE" users, and only semi active.

I can see who is active on ascended compared to how many voters there are.

i very much doubt all those people generated the full APP/LFC conversion aswell as farming, as frankly they just wouldnt have the turns, its more likely they used a NG account to farm for them to double their AT's which furthers the gap of possible farming even more.

2 of the currently top 7 have APP over 50 mill. I know at least one of them doesn't have an NG multi. I stopped at 7 because I cbf copy and pasting all the IDs to check xD.

[~Tziki~]

if the voters dont count for the amount of active users, then post an announcement ingame to get them here, the fact they havent looked proves they arent really "ACTIVE" users, and only semi active.

I can see who is active on ascended compared to how many voters there are.

I know you can, but "active" isnt a term i would use to describe someone that plays and doesnt look on the servers forums or give any consideration to improvements or negative changes. THOSE people are not active, but semi active at best. But as i said, give them a nudge then. Incase they just overlooked it and may be active enough to care. perhaps then we can ignore the rest of these numbers and just go with a majority preference.

[Sol]

if the voters dont count for the amount of active users, then post an announcement ingame to get them here, the fact they havent looked proves they arent really "ACTIVE" users, and only semi active.

I can see who is active on ascended compared to how many voters there are.

I know you can, but "active" isnt a term i would use to describe someone that plays and doesnt look on the servers forums or give any consideration to improvements or negative changes. THOSE people are not active, but semi active at best. But as i said, give them a nudge then. Incase they just overlooked it and may be active enough to care. perhaps then we can ignore the rest of these numbers and just go with a majority preference.

I don't even know why we're talking about getting everyone to vote, it will still fall to the same separation of, yes = those with app, no = those that dont have app.

[Slim87R]

Wait, you get 400 bil a turn converted? I could have sworn I wasn't getting anywhere near that after my last ascension.

Edit: On my trade page it says I get a max of just shy of 16.5 bil per turn change. That means I get closer to 400 bil converted every 12 hours. How is anyone getting 400 bil per TC? That right there would be plenty.

[Sol]

Wait, you get 400 bil a turn converted? I could have sworn I wasn't getting anywhere near that after my last ascension.

Edit: On my trade page it says I get a max of just shy of 16.5 bil per turn change. That means I get closer to 400 bil converted every 12 hours. How is anyone getting 400 bil per TC? That right there would be plenty.

We're talking about 400 b per day.

[~Tziki~]

so....

about fixing the actual amount you get, and then increasing it to an acceptable amount.

ive seen certain individuals proving its easy to outfarm/grow people who both farm and use APP, and they are doing so at such a rapid pace that speeding this up without arguing any further is almost a necessity...

[RubberDuck]

Oddly enough. We were just talking about this on skype

Why not make this option....

100t max lifeforce can be converted with a once a month Check box. Once a month...
2. Give us the option to covert app for turns without loseing all the app but rather just the required amount. For turns twice a month.

As a new account on both main and ascended i can see wasteing years trying to catch up i mean atm i have 20t life force waiting to be converted and only a 2b army and honestly its taking to long.. also lack of turns makes the gsme boring

[Sol]

Oddly enough. We were just talking about this on skype

Why not make this option....

100t max lifeforce can be converted with a once a month Check box. Once a month...
2. Give us the option to covert app for turns without loseing all the app but rather just the required amount. For turns twice a month.

Sound like you need to catch up on a few things .
There used to be an old soft cap, you could covert 100 trill per 6 months, that was scrapped to use a more dynamic number based around the size of an account. Which is currently about 100 trill per 5 months at the average planet count.
As far as the losing all APP for turns go, flick back a page or two, I pushed out some calcs. Basically it would really skew relative amounts of dmu/lf people can get if those with large stockpiles of APP suddenly could get a batch of turns AND still have that trickle conversion.

As a new account on both main and ascended i can see wasteing years trying to catch up i mean atm i have 20t life force waiting to be converted and only a 2b army and honestly its taking to long.. also lack of turns makes the gsme boring

Theoretically, you can never catch up , but it isn't hard to build a competitive account. That 20t, even if you could convert it, wouldn't really boost your planet count much -even if you convert LF to dmu to buy fleets the conversion will destroy a fair amount of lf/dmu in the process. That will always take time (once you hit the 5 bill cap your CER will decrease rapidly as well).

[RubberDuck]

Oddly enough. We were just talking about this on skype

Why not make this option....

100t max lifeforce can be converted with a once a month Check box. Once a month...
2. Give us the option to covert app for turns without loseing all the app but rather just the required amount. For turns twice a month.

Sound like you need to catch up on a few things .
There used to be an old soft cap, you could covert 100 trill per 6 months, that was scrapped to use a more dynamic number based around the size of an account. Which is currently about 100 trill per 5 months at the average planet count.
As far as the losing all APP for turns go, flick back a page or two, I pushed out some calcs. Basically it would really skew relative amounts of dmu/lf people can get if those with large stockpiles of APP suddenly could get a batch of turns AND still have that trickle conversion.

As a new account on both main and ascended i can see wasteing years trying to catch up i mean atm i have 20t life force waiting to be converted and only a 2b army and honestly its taking to long.. also lack of turns makes the gsme boring

Theoretically, you can never catch up , but it isn't hard to build a competitive account. That 20t, even if you could convert it, wouldn't really boost your planet count much -even if you convert LF to dmu to buy fleets the conversion will destroy a fair amount of lf/dmu in the process. That will always take time (once you hit the 5 bill cap your CER will decrease rapidly as well).

Okay... so in your words id never catch up..... then why bother with this slow conversion.... and as the turns go notice i said only twice a month its not overkill its just makes more sense rather then not haveing turns and a dead account to be able to play more considering we use turns for spying for attacking and even in wreckages.

[Sol]

Okay... so in your words id never catch up..... then why bother with this slow conversion....

Say we have 2 players that are identical in their farming expenditure and gains, player A started the game before player B, say 2 years before.
Now as player A increases their personals and fleets, costs become significantly more expensive. So player B can reach a stage where they can compete with player A on a battlefield. e.g. player A has 1500 physicals, it wouldn't be a far-cry for player B to mass player A with 1300 physicals, which isn't that hard to get.
The theoretical 'never catch up' part comes into play because they reap they same dmu and expend the same amount when they farm so logically player B will never surpass player A. (Assuming they're building the same things as well).
There's a plethora of assumptions like dmu:turn ratios, and complete activity etc. But the fact is you can't expect to 'catch up' and pass a person that has been playing for years. You can easily complete though (which might be what you meant by catch up....).

The thing is, if I allow people to hit up 100 trill a month, everyone who hasn't fully ascended will get a massive boost quickly and probably surpass others which have been playing for quite a few years. Which is of course, unfair.

and as the turns go notice i said only twice a month its not overkill its just makes more sense rather then not haveing turns and a dead account to be able to play more considering we use turns for spying for attacking and even in wreckages.

If I'm not mistaken the calcs where based on converting once every 2 weeks, which is just about 2 times a month (28 days)....

As far as wreckages go, I'm flipping up a few ideas anyway, like a turns duality similar to main. Specific wreckage turns and normal turns or something.