Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
Once somebodies life has become insufferable and a long painful death is inevitable, Euthanasia should be an option, I wouldn't stand by and watch my dog suffer once there is nothing else that can be done.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
Sorry, I thought this was the area for intelligent discussion. The only lack of understanding I see is your cries of murder and suicide instead of looking past your own principles to the situations that others may be in.[KMA]Avenger wrote:Loki™ wrote: Yep. Allowing things like this is a gateway to worse things.
You said it better than i did, and with fewer words.
Once the door is opened it can never be closed. some people will get this and some won't. hence the passion from some who are against this, and the lack of understanding from those that don't.
I appreciate your comments and I actually agree with most of them. It is effectively murder. However, murder in terms of the law in this country has been overridden with a new law, allowing this to take place under another name. Other than that, if you are commenting under the justification of religion, well that's your prerogative. I do not think I can comment to any of your posts here for fear of insulting your integrity or your "passion".
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
So now we have lowered ourselves to the level of animals....good jobMental wrote:Once somebodies life has become insufferable and a long painful death is inevitable, Euthanasia should be an option, I wouldn't stand by and watch my dog suffer once there is nothing else that can be done.
I'm not basing my opinions from a religious stand point. sorry i should have been more clear. my stance on this comes from my own sense of morality. changing the law won't change how i feel about it. imho, murder is murder and changing the name does nothing to change that fact.Field Marshall wrote:Sorry, I thought this was the area for intelligent discussion. The only lack of understanding I see is your cries of murder and suicide instead of looking past your own principles to the situations that others may be in.[KMA]Avenger wrote:Loki™ wrote: Yep. Allowing things like this is a gateway to worse things.
You said it better than i did, and with fewer words.
Once the door is opened it can never be closed. some people will get this and some won't. hence the passion from some who are against this, and the lack of understanding from those that don't.
I appreciate your comments and I actually agree with most of them. It is effectively murder. However, murder in terms of the law in this country has been overridden with a new law, allowing this to take place under another name. Other than that, if you are commenting under the justification of religion, well that's your prerogative. I do not think I can comment to any of your posts here for fear of insulting your integrity or your "passion".
It's just how i see this. no religion involved, and there shouldn't be any religion involved
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
No it's amazing that it is acceptable to show mercy to an animal but a human has to suffer till their very last breath, It is cruel when you have to watch a loved one beg to die, Due to the amount of pain they're suffering.[KMA]Avenger wrote:So now we have lowered ourselves to the level of animals....good jobMental wrote:Once somebodies life has become insufferable and a long painful death is inevitable, Euthanasia should be an option, I wouldn't stand by and watch my dog suffer once there is nothing else that can be done.
Most people do not just simply slip away.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
Mental wrote:No it's amazing that it is acceptable to show mercy to an animal but a human has to suffer till their very last breath, It is cruel when you have to watch a loved one beg to die, Due to the amount of pain they're suffering.[KMA]Avenger wrote:So now we have lowered ourselves to the level of animals....good jobMental wrote:Once somebodies life has become insufferable and a long painful death is inevitable, Euthanasia should be an option, I wouldn't stand by and watch my dog suffer once there is nothing else that can be done.
Most people do not just simply slip away.
Life is life and precious, but animals can't handle pain the same as people. in the real world if an animal becomes lame it dies, either from starvation/dehydration or from other animals. with people it's not the same thing. besides the fact that medical procedures and cures are being withheld (that's fact and not a conspiracy theory), i just cannot bring myself to accept that murdering humans (no matter how much pain they are in) can be justified. if we can justify that we can justify anything.
Also, apologies for my condescending above reply to you. it wasn't intentional.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
hmm - imo this is a strange one and tough choice, i have not really read to much into it, but there was such a bill that was placed for discussion in British parliament -
It was more facing into Adult Euthanasia specifically with profound disabilities that were developed due to neurological trauma rather tough to go into basics off it, ultimately the bill was denied.
Doctors/Medical Students graduating into such a field were asked to give opinions on this - and basically what it entitled doctors to do was if working with a patient and being a central figure in the multi disciplinary team that patient asked to die - but was unable to communicate it verbally but was able to physically via written format and was deemed to have capacity then it would NOT be solved in a court case but it would be solved with the MDP - and the doctor apart of that team - to end this persons life 3 signatures had to be obtained - The doctor involved in the team - a psychiatrist to deem capacity - and the care staff incharge of the care.
Doctors who would be involved said they didnt feel comfortable ending a persons life who was clearly able to make choices on what they want but didnt find it morally or ethically appropriate and would mean that gives doctors the final say to end a persons life - To much power for one person it was argued.
Others put in the argument of a DNR (for those not aware this is called a Do Not Resuscitate) when the patient goes through trauma and becomes un responsive the doctor does nothing and lets them die for better a word.
I personally dont and couldnt end someones life - we doctors at the point of entry to medicine and at the point of graduating say the oath to medicine to do no harm to a person..
I do see the point in some countries like belgium implementing this nobody likes to see someone suffer let alone a child. I think in extremem circumstances i would consider it - but ive never met someone who has been deemed to have capacity who wished to die. thankfully.
It was more facing into Adult Euthanasia specifically with profound disabilities that were developed due to neurological trauma rather tough to go into basics off it, ultimately the bill was denied.
Doctors/Medical Students graduating into such a field were asked to give opinions on this - and basically what it entitled doctors to do was if working with a patient and being a central figure in the multi disciplinary team that patient asked to die - but was unable to communicate it verbally but was able to physically via written format and was deemed to have capacity then it would NOT be solved in a court case but it would be solved with the MDP - and the doctor apart of that team - to end this persons life 3 signatures had to be obtained - The doctor involved in the team - a psychiatrist to deem capacity - and the care staff incharge of the care.
Doctors who would be involved said they didnt feel comfortable ending a persons life who was clearly able to make choices on what they want but didnt find it morally or ethically appropriate and would mean that gives doctors the final say to end a persons life - To much power for one person it was argued.
Others put in the argument of a DNR (for those not aware this is called a Do Not Resuscitate) when the patient goes through trauma and becomes un responsive the doctor does nothing and lets them die for better a word.
I personally dont and couldnt end someones life - we doctors at the point of entry to medicine and at the point of graduating say the oath to medicine to do no harm to a person..
I do see the point in some countries like belgium implementing this nobody likes to see someone suffer let alone a child. I think in extremem circumstances i would consider it - but ive never met someone who has been deemed to have capacity who wished to die. thankfully.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
Talking about animals, it's rather strange the little giraffe threatened to face euthanasia in Denmark raised more concern world wide than the law about euthanasia for children in Belgium...
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
What I would like to know how you would break it to the child? No matter what, when you tell the child this is an option it will be you nudging them to make that decision.
What kind of a person basically pressures a child to choose death? Even if you try to appear neutral when you say it the fact that you did means you'd prefer euthanasia at that point. A child will strive to do what is expected of them.
What kind of a person basically pressures a child to choose death? Even if you try to appear neutral when you say it the fact that you did means you'd prefer euthanasia at that point. A child will strive to do what is expected of them.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
+1Juliette wrote:Death is too permanent to be a solution for anything.
Better ti keep them alive even if the only way to help them would be to pump them full of fentanyl and keep it that way.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
This is a matter not understood by many. I salute you!Juliette wrote:Death is too permanent to be a solution for anything.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
The arguments of where this could lead are just absurd. In the realm of we can't have gay marriage cos that will lead to bestiality orgies on the streets. Get a grip people.
Personally I find it ironic that any decently emphatic human being wouldn't hesitate to put down a dying pet or horse yet wouldn't even consider this tightly regulated and monitored mercy for a fellow human being, be him a child or an adult.
Not all stories get a happy ending. Heck these stories don't even get a happy start. Must the tragedy of these kids really be compounded by the fact we keep them forcibly coiled to this world as long as medically possible no matter the circumstances? Must a child really linger on in excruciating pain and die in agony just because of our sensibilities and moral indignation? I'd treat my dog better then watch him suffer terribly for months before the inevitable end.
Personally I find it ironic that any decently emphatic human being wouldn't hesitate to put down a dying pet or horse yet wouldn't even consider this tightly regulated and monitored mercy for a fellow human being, be him a child or an adult.
Not all stories get a happy ending. Heck these stories don't even get a happy start. Must the tragedy of these kids really be compounded by the fact we keep them forcibly coiled to this world as long as medically possible no matter the circumstances? Must a child really linger on in excruciating pain and die in agony just because of our sensibilities and moral indignation? I'd treat my dog better then watch him suffer terribly for months before the inevitable end.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
It's not where this could lead, but where this WILL lead. You seem to be unaware about all the abuses of euthanasia for adults going on in countries where it's legal. It will be the same for children, now people who used to go to jail for killing their children won't anymore thanks to opportunities given with euthanasia. They call it "progress", after all...Brdavs wrote:The arguments of where this could lead are just absurd. In the realm of we can't have gay marriage cos that will lead to bestiality orgies on the streets. Get a grip people.
Personally I find it ironic that any decently emphatic human being wouldn't hesitate to put down a dying pet or horse yet wouldn't even consider this tightly regulated and monitored mercy for a fellow human being, be him a child or an adult.
Not all stories get a happy ending. Heck these stories don't even get a happy start. Must the tragedy of these kids really be compounded by the fact we keep them forcibly coiled to this world as long as medically possible no matter the circumstances? Must a child really linger on in excruciating pain and die in agony just because of our sensibilities and moral indignation? I'd treat my dog better then watch him suffer terribly for months before the inevitable end.
Euthanasia on kids = adults giving themselves the right of life or death on an innocent being. While on the other hand, I suppose you are one of those against death penalty for criminals right?
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
What I would like to find out first is the extent of the euthanasia candidates pain, I'm under the impression most pain can be handled decently with drugs (let's be honest, at the rate of medical advancements over the years and the incredible array of drugs available, even focused to pain receptors, I find it hard to believe most of the candidates would be under immense pain). I would imagine anything painful that does surpass the best pain relief drugs ability, would signal a very short life as it stands for the person.
Which just begs another question, if someone WAS going to die, guaranteed, within a short time period, why not have the ability to end it at the ideal moment (....which folds back into my answer above of; if you want it that badly do it yourself).
I'll digress to the current thread path.
Sure davs we do give our pets (as Juliette put it) a more permanent solution, but they are also inherently disposable to us, throw a few motions here and there, a week later the kids wont even remember what happened.
Which just begs another question, if someone WAS going to die, guaranteed, within a short time period, why not have the ability to end it at the ideal moment (....which folds back into my answer above of; if you want it that badly do it yourself).
I'll digress to the current thread path.
Sure davs we do give our pets (as Juliette put it) a more permanent solution, but they are also inherently disposable to us, throw a few motions here and there, a week later the kids wont even remember what happened.
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Re: Child euthanasia is now legal in Belgium.
Of course! I completely agree with you! You know who else suffers and are the cause of much pain and sorrow to our collective and personal selves? Jews. And black people, poor people, sick people and generally speaking people that have moral compasses outside the blanketed and majorilly accepted element. Because these people do not even know how much they suffer by lacking the great and deep sense of progress that we all have, that enlightens us! Gay people should marry! Because gay marriage= freedom and love, we all know that! Sick people and sick children should be killed because they suffer! So do the people that have an even greater infection, that of the wrong and damaging opinion! Kill them! Kill them now before they cause even more grief!Brdavs wrote:The arguments of where this could lead are just absurd. In the realm of we can't have gay marriage cos that will lead to bestiality orgies on the streets. Get a grip people.
Personally I find it ironic that any decently emphatic human being wouldn't hesitate to put down a dying pet or horse yet wouldn't even consider this tightly regulated and monitored mercy for a fellow human being, be him a child or an adult.
Not all stories get a happy ending. Heck these stories don't even get a happy start. Must the tragedy of these kids really be compounded by the fact we keep them forcibly coiled to this world as long as medically possible no matter the circumstances? Must a child really linger on in excruciating pain and die in agony just because of our sensibilities and moral indignation? I'd treat my dog better then watch him suffer terribly for months before the inevitable end.
Values, moral values are not the absence of courage, resilience, thoughtfullness, empathy and a stride to fight, or rather they are not a void of all that makes us human. We are turning into heartless creatures that value nothing because we fear suffering, we fear fighting and love our complacent selves and our hedonistic pleasures. Where i work at people fight to very last breath, they fight and die with a fire in their eyes. They die with meaning in their lives, not through an injection because they were scared.
You're right tho, i wouldn't let a dog suffer, because a dog doesn't know a dimension that surpasses common suffering, a human dog does not value a human soul.
To sum myself up, i don't agree with gay marriage because lust doesn't mean love and two men having sex while on paper "being together" doesn't mean they're married. If a child suffers doesn't mean it needs to be put down like an animal because we think like is just happy joy flowers and pleasures upon pleasures. Life means hardship, suffering, pain and overcoming that with endurance, bravery, determination and courage as to give life a meaning and to call us humans!
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