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The way the rules read,

The Tauri and Asguard get deduction in price for training attack and defense spiders while the replicators are still paying the full 3500 for training a spy unit.

Selling of attack and defense guns.

I'm not sure if you have figured out the cost but if you missed the one about the units. What about the cost Asguard and Tauri get for selling Defense and Attack guns respectfully? Is the price the same as it was or do they only get 80% back of the new price other wise thats more of an advantage. The fact that they get 85% or so back on the cost of Guns which is how everyone saves to buy new spy levels.

perhaps oversites not sure, but something I notice the other day about the cost of spys....

The price of selling weapons is certainly not the same as buying them for the Tauri. We get less back when we sell - I'd have to check the exact %.

X302:

Buy 151,020
Sell 134,240

Sell = 88.9% of Buy price

I assume this is the same for the Asgard defensive weapons.

Goauld:
Buy: 167800
Sell: 134240
80% of buy price

Anonymous wrote:The way the rules read,

The Tauri and Asguard get deduction in price for training attack and defense spiders while the replicators are still paying the full 3500 for training a spy unit.

Selling of attack and defense guns.

I'm not sure if you have figured out the cost but if you missed the one about the units. What about the cost Asguard and Tauri get for selling Defense and Attack guns respectfully? Is the price the same as it was or do they only get 80% back of the new price other wise thats more of an advantage. The fact that they get 85% or so back on the cost of Guns which is how everyone saves to buy new spy levels.

perhaps oversites not sure, but something I notice the other day about the cost of spys....

Thats how the asgard and tauri get their spy updates correct... you sell either your defence or attack weapons depending on your race.

The Goauld get the benefit from their increased income, and the reps just get the spy update cheaper..

That way its all ballenced out - because when you get higher up and into a long term strategy, attacking/defending costs more than its worth... so if thats your race advantage it becomes a bit pointless...

long term goals favor the Goauld and Reps... Too far in for me to change race now though!

shouldnt the tauri/asgard also only get 80% of their sale price? cause 89% is almost like the bank, so in effect, this upgrade gives them an unlimited bank size! and yes, that 9% makes a significant difference when youre talking about 49 mil naq!

chunkysoup wrote:shouldnt the tauri/asgard also only get 80% of their sale price? cause 89% is almost like the bank, so in effect, this upgrade gives them an unlimited bank size! and yes, that 9% makes a significant difference when youre talking about 49 mil naq!

now someone finaly undarstands wath i wass saing after the upgread......

to clarify - the 49 mil naq thing, im referring to people selling their weapons to pay for spy levels, 49 mil is what it costs to go to lvl 14...

I still think it works out even.. ok, the tauri and asgard get hit with around 11% if they sell the right type of weapon, add to that the fact that they had to probably bank that money before hand to buy the weapon, (another 5%) - where as the goauld get no bank fees and a income bonus... so that works out square.... and the reps get to pay a hell of a lot less for that upgrade, and get more power from it...

I see your point, and in the end, its sort of equal realy...

well, no, not reallly, cause the tauri/asgard have essentially a limitless bank with 10% withdrawal charge that also boosts their attack/defense... thats pretty dang strong advantage, dont you think? Goa'uld/Rep "limitless banks" (weapons) have a 20% withdrawal charge, so for example, say two players, a Goa'uld and an Asgard, both want to get next spy upgrade at 24 mil. Both have bank sizes of 12 mil, and both fill those up with deposits over the course of a couple days (Asgard has to use about 600k extra cause of 5% deposit charge). Then, they both buy weapons to cover the other 12 mil: Goa'uld has to buy 15 mil worth of weapons so that when he sells, he has 12 mil, while Asgard has to buy 13.5 mil worth of weapons so that when he sells, he has 12 mil. Both players sell their weapons and get the spy upgrade. End result: Overall, the Goa'uld has to spend 27 mil to get 24 mil upgrade, while Asgard had to spend 26 mil to get 24 mil upgrade... so much for free banking and banking favoring Goa'ulds and etc etc etc...

and your forgetting the goauld get a 25% bonus naq per turn, so if they had the same amount of troops, and started from zero money, and the goauld had to earn 15 million, it would take him the same amount of time that it took the Asgard to earn 12 million

so that makes the goauld ahead by 1 million or so...

Costs are not just the naq, its the time to earn that naq....

think about this...

player 1 takes 1 week to earn 1 million, and his weapon costs him 1 million naq. and have a power of 500 points

player 2 takes 1 day to earn 1 million, and his weapon costs him 7 million naq. and have a power of 500 points

player 3 takes 1 week to earn 2 million naq, and his weapons cost him 1 million naq. and have a power of 250 points

So at the end of two weeks, all players have zero naq, and a firepower of 1000 points.

what is the difference there? NOTHING!

and then they all get sabbed by player 4 who has been playing for 10 weeks.. hahaha so there is still no difference!

Also, think about this one, what if the smart-assed goa'uld puts all of his 125% of naq into unit production. He will soon be growing way faster than the other races. Earning exponentially more naq then the others.

Sleipnir wrote:Also, think about this one, what if the smart-assed goa'uld puts all of his 125% of naq into unit production. He will soon be growing way faster than the other races. Earning exponentially more naq then the others.

trid that...and with the curent limits on bank deposits u produce more naq then u can cover...so u get attackd a lot....afterall if u have a income of 500k+ and litle defence u are a big target considering u can deposit onece every 3 turns...thats over 1,6 mil.....and most get targeted at 1 mil naq.....

the thing is this....wepons of asgard/taury are cheper....so they shoud get the same amount of naq back from seling them(in %)....so the sell value of a top weapon shoud be les then 134k.....acording to the upgread weapons price wass droped...so the return value is droped....afterall the game help states clearly that the return value is dependet on the amount u PAYD.....


so try this calculations and tell me were i am wrong....

a goauld user and a tauri user ....each have 1 mil naq and invest in wath the particular upgread gave them as extra...

goauld deposits the naq....he economises 50k naq....then he buys the weapons for attack...top weapons...and sels them...finisd value from 1 mil after all proceses is ~ 798k naq

tauri user dose the same proces...deposits the naq....loses 50k naq....withdrows the naq(950k) and buys top weapons....then sels them.....finishd value after all proceses ~842k

so is this fair?.....same proces for bouth races.....involves the upgread......its to see wath the economising is for every race infolved in the test.....

forgive_me wrote:

Sleipnir wrote:Also, think about this one, what if the smart-assed goa'uld puts all of his 125% of naq into unit production. He will soon be growing way faster than the other races. Earning exponentially more naq then the others.

trid that...and with the curent limits on bank deposits u produce more naq then u can cover...so u get attackd a lot....afterall if u have a income of 500k+ and litle defence u are a big target considering u can deposit onece every 3 turns...thats over 1,6 mil.....and most get targeted at 1 mil naq.....

I don't think there's a lot of people out there that got to an income of 500k+ only through upgrading unit production. But you're right, unit production alone won't get you there. However if you also invest in some attack, you can steal more naq and upgrade even faster. Strategy works fine in quantum, a lot slower in main, but with patience I think it works.

And I still don't see how people run out of banking turns. I have way over 100 turns to spare. You don't bank your naq every turn. If your income is high enough to need banking every single turn, it's really time to invest in defense. So, there, you've got something else to do for a while instead of banking. However, considering that 1 turn will not make you a target, you can bank every 2nd turn, withdraw and spend every 4th turn, or some pattern like that. It's really simple and if you consider the bank turns that build up at night, you'll never run out again.


Oh, and on the calculations, please include the fact that goa'uld have 25% more bank size and therefore need to store less naq in weapons to reach the same totals.

Well said Sleipnir.

You know after typing my message that explained it all, I basically talked myself into changing race to goauld in quantum.. sold all my weapons, banked what I could, bought a few spy upgrades, heap of production upgrades, and switched... nearly doubled my income in the process and have a huge spy level. should take around a week to be back where I was with the weapons. so over all, it was a good move... its worth it in that game with the 3x income....

by the way, speaking of stats.... how much alcohol does your little Sleipnir have to drink to get 'legless' ??? twice as much as a normal horse? haha