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Let's face it, covert has become a joke! If the old sabbing ways don't come back, I propose that spies can steal naq or turns (preferably the turns) cos there's such a scarce supply of them. what do u think? (I heard this idea from someone on IRC, can't remember who it was.

stealing turns hmmmmmmmmmmmm i dont know i can see alot of bottom feeding on ppl from the top just feeding off those newbies

newbies start with few turns anyway..it's all those inactive accounts with thousands of turns..and those ppl who just store turns to attack stronger players won't be able to do it anymore as the stronger players can just remove their turns.

Now this is an intresting idea!!!! Very promising!


BUT- what would be the required defenses against theives? I'm guessing a higher covert rating/lvl then they have?? Plus: I hope we can be able to store some turns in the bank. This here is a must. I love it man!! This would spice up covert once again! Brilliant!

it doesnt matter if newbies have only a few turns once they have enough u can start stealing off other newbies instead of one newbie


thats like 98 turns a day 48 from turn and 50 from covert stealing off turns off newbies.


and plus how do u no the person doing the stealing is going to massive assualt on u

EnterTheLion wrote: (I heard this idea from someone on IRC, can't remember who it was.

Was it from me hehe

to help out the sabbing maybe if u could destroy more weapons with one sab or lose less spies when u sab since it is a percentage, maybe you could be able to destroy a percentage of other peoples weapons which would then make sabbing fun and enjoyable again.

I see a problem. There's a lot of inactive accounts with thousands of turns. You could steal your way to 1000s of turns, greatly unbalancing.

let it take 5 covert turns or 10 to steal normal turns to solve that.

now im not ok with this because of one thing.....covert now afects someonw way lower than u....like noobs or relativly new players.....

this is going do make there play warse and the onece alrady evolved beter.....so im against this...

remember with 2 wrongs we dont make a write.....

covert action is a joke...and needs improving as it is....

forgive_me wrote: covert action is a joke...and needs improving as it is....

Agreed. Maybe if we could put a limit on turns? Farther away from your rank, the less turns you steal. Maybe if you had to sacrifice spies to do it It would be less rampant, less abused to make the big dogs bigger??

I'd hate to see this thread just get closer and closer to the bottom. I agree with forgive me, an "overhaul" of covert function is needed. Do you know how I spy on someone?? I hit them with one attack turn just to see if I breach the defenses!! Hate to waste fifteen turns on a defended attack! They either have too little covert or they are too close to me with a realm alert On critical!! Its pointless at this point, I dont even use my spies! Peeps are either too weak to spy/hit, or they are too equal.

The question is: how can we limit the benefits of stealing newbie turns, without limiting the rewards for big covert spenders??? If they invest that much into it, they should reap the benefits. But in this case- Highly limited!!

Interestingly, I agree. Covert is becoming something of a joke, and I'm not saying this because I'm a Replicator.

EtL will know what i'm on about here for sure, others may also...

On mediwar, as an Elf, it's possible to recon gold using spies. It cost two turns and the amount aquired is based simply on how much money the enemy has and wether or not you're covert strike is higher than theirs...

Anything further to add EtL? Simplicity...

It's hideously expensive for what you get out of it. I'm looking at around 6M Naq for my next level.

Your covert strength is averaged into your overall ranking. So, in order to have a decent rank you HAVE to buy covert levels, even of you NEVER USE THEM.

It's also the only way for little guys to really bring down the big dogs. But of course the big dogs are so paranoid (with reason, people really ARE out to get them), that they buy as much as they can afford -- and, being at the top, they can afford A LOT. Which frankly, puts the little guy out of the market.

So really, that leaves the little guy with nothing.

I'm not talking about some newbie in the 5000's taking on #1, I'm talking about someone more in the middle, the 2500's, being able to move up.

Two ways to move up -- outproduce everyone around you and buy more toys, or tear down the mighty.

Is there an absolute top limit to covert levels, like fortifications? Or is it some sort of infinite progression where the cost triples every time (or whatever), into infinity? If it's infinite, the big dogs with the biggest production levels will ALWAYS be ahead. Especailly in main, where haveing a head start makes a world of difference.

Maybe Covert Ops should be divided into offensive and defensive segments. More than that, what if your Covert Level power was automatically slanted one way or the other relative to your rank? The LOWER your rank, the more effective your spies become at attacking? Because they're all you have? And the higher the covert rank, the MORE spies you have, the LESS individually effective and more bureaucratically bloated they become. Kind of like the CIA Good for defense, but not so much for sabbing themselves. Defending is all you should be doing if you're at the top, anyway...

It would also be nice to specify how your covert defense is used -- to conceal your assets, or to defend against sabbing. I don't care if someone can count how many 2000-point weapons I have. Hell, it might even discourage them from attacking me. I just want to keep them far enough away to not wreck said weapons.

If we really want a new use for Sabb'ing, how about this: The ability to knock down Unit Production levels? That is truly the classic purpose of sabotage. Knocking a little guy from 40 to 30 won't hurt as much as a drop from 80 to 70. And that does give the rest of the universe a chance to catch up with the big dogs.

Vogon_Poet wrote:If we really want a new use for Sabb'ing, how about this: The ability to knock down Unit Production levels?...

Interesting...