Get covert to the 20th century

[Sleipnir]

We've all heard the talk around the watercooler about how covert is no longer useful, and how the replicators are disadvantaged because other races steal their bonuses. We heard the goa'uld complain about the limitation of their bonus when the banking limits were introduced. Did we hear a similar outcry from the replicators when the covert functions were severely butchered? Not that I can recall. It's about time something was done about the situation.

A long time ago (in front of a convenience store far far away), the sabotage function was deemed too powerful. People were being sabotaged, with no way to counter it, no limit to the destruction, lets just say it was a mess. So measures were taken. Good measures, at least so it seemed at the time. Sabotage missions were limited to a maximum of eight per day, targets were given a chance to find out who sabotaged them, and last but not least, the maximum sabotage damage was limited. The result was a bunch of happy goa'uld, who now no longer had to worry about the threat of the tok'ra. For a while everyone was happy. Then the first complaints came, as people paid more and more for their spylevels, and got more and more weapons, yet the power of spies waned. And here we are today. In quantum, I produce enough naquadah to buy over 25 of the largest weapons per turn. Should someone want to sabotage me, the best they can do is destroy 8. And at great cost as well. People are selling their spies to drop their rank, because no one can do them any serious damage anyway. It's a miracle the replicators haven't revolted yet, with their bonuses being reduced to utter uselesness. I think it's time for a change.

I think we should agree that there has been a mistake in determining the power of covert. Solid numbers were being used, future growth was overlooked. In the time the update came in place, being able to sabotage 8 weapons a day was quite enough, now it's laughable. So its time to change it.

My proposition is to adjust the maximum damage of covert operations according to the number of weapons a person has. I think it should be around 1%. That means that if a person has a total of 100 top level weapons worth, then you can sabotage 1 per mission. If they have 200, you can sabotage 2. There should be a minimum, if someone has under 100, you can still sabotage 1 weapons worth. This increases the power of covert against those that have outgrown its current power, yet leaves it the same for those that are still weak.

There is one las addition I'd like to make. The replicators have been seriously nicked with their bonus, so I propose that replicators get the full effect of their original bonus. They should have a 25% bonus to maximum sabotage damage. So instead of 1% they get to destroy 1.25%. I think this would be only fair to give the repli's a bonus no one can take with them when they change races.

So, let me know what you think about this.

[SSG EnterTheLion]

good idea about the replicator bonus, although the destruction is still too little. how about 5%?

[GhostyGoo]

-applause- You have obviously put alot of thought into this Sleipnir, most commendable. Not only have you thought long and hard about it but (to my knowledge and understanding of game workings) you have also come up with a damn near (if not completely) perfect solution! Well done. i shall keep my eye on the topic and bump it if i think it's sinking before it's had a chance to flourish

-Goo

[Unknown]

You'd love that wouldn't you! (enterthelion) lol
You wouldn't happen to have the highest spy level on the game would you??

Just pulling your leg

[THE SAZ]

Consider this my thumbs up!!!

Love the idea Slep!!!

[Jean Gregoire Gabriel]

It gooood. Although yeah, I'd say more like 5% (rounded up) each time as the max.


J.G.G.

[RepliJake]

Just to add to this, the replicators have been worse off than a few might think, 2 days ago I tried to spy on a tauri with 7086 spies, I had 7000 spies, as a replicator I should have had a 25% bonus "when using covert actions" this was not the case which makes me wonder if it ever has been. So many people have admitted to changing to replicator, buying a spy level and changing back, replicators IMHO have no bonus...

I am a replicator however for the same reason as I always was, I thought them more of a challenge and I will continue to be a replicator, a bonus that we can call our OWN would be most welcome though...


Sleipnir, you have out done yourself here, you most certainly get a yes vote from me

[IcER]

Very well put. I think the idea about giving the replicators an additional 25% on the max damage is especially good. I dont think it should be as high as 5% per strike, as that would allow a player to destroy a third of your force with 50 covert turns...but this is just a minor detail, and can easily be worked out from the percentage of someones army you want to destroy in one go.

Thumbs up here

Edit: Oh btw, you do realise its the 21st century dont you?

[Jutah]

I'm still thinking a one unit increase per upgrade would be good. It'd revert when you changed races however.

[Valefor]

I think that's the longest post i've ever read here Good job Sleipnir, I think you've made some extremely valid points/ideas - spot on - I agree.

But sorry to ruin your hour of Glory buddy but Jutah's point...

...unit increase per upgrade would be good...

It's also definately something that needs to be addressed/looked at...

[~Phoenix~]

I just read that and I thought it was the best post I have ever read

The idea was perfect and could not be picked at

I can honestly say it is the best sugestion ever made for an improvement

I personally think Forum should start making this happen after the current updates like ascension are all done

Great job

[Wolf359]

Just to add to this, the replicators have been worse off than a few might think, 2 days ago I tried to spy on a tauri with 7086 spies, I had 7000 spies, as a replicator I should have had a 25% bonus "when using covert actions" this was not the case which makes me wonder if it ever has been. So many people have admitted to changing to replicator, buying a spy level and changing back, replicators IMHO have no bonus...

I am a replicator however for the same reason as I always was, I thought them more of a challenge and I will continue to be a replicator, a bonus that we can call our OWN would be most welcome though...


Sleipnir, you have out done yourself here, you most certainly get a yes vote from me

But what were the respective spy levels??

A similar conversation about the 25% bonus for reps came up a couple of weeks back, but I can't remember which thread - although I do remember that Forum cleared it up.

I agree with Sleipnir - covert is now virtually meaningless - but care must be taken not to go back to the old ways where covert dominated and there was no defense against it. If Forum is to take thi sone forward I think he should lets us know what he plans before he implements it so that.

a) people get a chance to look over it and suggest improvements.

b) any possible loopholes are spotted before the update goes live and so cannot be exploited - we don't want a massive **Filtered** again as we did with the full troop refund thing!

[RepliJake]

we both had the same spy levels

[Sleipnir]

Edit: Oh btw, you do realise its the 21st century dont you?

Which proves how far behind it was

Thanks for all your kind words. Much appreciated.

Ok, 5% per strike? With the current limit of 8 sabotage missions, that would mean you can wipe out almost half of an enemies armory, or if you're really clever (Libra would know) almost completely. That would be a tad too far back towards the old days I think. 1% would mean that with bonus, a clever replicator could take out 20% of an opponents armory in a short time. I think thats damaging enough. Keeping it up for a while would still be able to cripple a player. Remember, we want it to be powerful, but only if used right.

[myFriend]

My proposition is to adjust the maximum damage of covert operations according to the number of weapons a person has. I think it should be around 1%. That means that if a person has a total of 100 top level weapons worth, then you can sabotage 1 per mission. If they have 200, you can sabotage 2

only flaw is if you have 199 you only get 1 sab. but that can be fixed with rounding.