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Is the behavior described bye me Cheating in your eyes?

Poll ended at Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:11 am

Yes
17
25%
Yes, but i dont care and do it
1
1%
I dont care
9
13%
No
7
10%
No, and i happyly use such methods
14
20%
over banking is ok but thats as far as i go
21
30%
solved w/ bank leak and space needed for trade to ->bank -new option :) by admin. 70votes behind.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 69
Munchy
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Sleipnir wrote:
Nox wrote:i never used overbanking personnaly, i have a nice bank :-D , but i helped ppl doing that, and i dont see it as cheating, its a way for ppl that dont have a big bank to get what they want, being a spy lvl, anti lvl whatever
i know if i wanted spy lvl 30 i would need to do this, and i would with no probs, cause i dont think its cheating


You know, in the old days we used to sell weapons to buy spylevels if our banks weren't big enough. You don't need overbanking. It's just a cheap way to cheat yourself around the naq you would lose in selling weapons. I'm hoping Forum will eventually come around to this one like he did with the turn brokering, which was the same thing and was also fixed.

Here's another question. The game allows you to trade resources between accounts as long as they're not on the same IP. So if I use a proxy to make a couple multi's to increase my income, since the game doesn't prevent it, I'm allowed?


Well..actually...

November 25, 2005
Updates on Main Server only at this point


Advanced notice: Web Proxy Servers (aka anonymous proxy servers)


These will soon be disallowed for accessing the game. They are a source of cheating and avoiding the rules. Whenever there are reports of 'hacking' into other accounts, etc, these are involved.
So -- eventually some or all access via these proxy servers will stop. Regular 'workplace' or university proxy servers will be fine -- it is just the web proxy servers that will be affected.


The rules specifically state it is illegal, and action will be taken as such. I see no such steps with over banking, even though it is well known people do it. It only helps the smaller players anyway...

Also, I found this in there:
A warning for those with multi accounts, autobankers, and other forms of cheating. We (myself and game admins) have put scripts, tools, manual checks, and other devices in place, and are devoting the time to using them, to elminate those cheating.
(If you were not aware, every single action you take in game is logged - attacks, training, armory buy&sell, transfers, market buys, logon/logoff, banking, spying, etc -- 27million records worth over the last few months.)
A large number of accounts have already been suspended, and more are found and suspended each day. If you have multi accounts, or are using other methods of cheating, this is a warning to delete the extra accounts, and/or stop cheating in general. For those that willingly stop, it will be easier in the end. It is still not decided if any of those caught will be made public, or if the account will simply be left unaccessible to the cheater, or if once punished, it will be left at that. That decision is to be made by the Game and Site Admins, and you must trust it to be fair and the best course for the game.


I also noticed a few references to hacking, and how it was illegal, so that pretty much shoots down your idea that stealing resources would be alright...
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Sleipnir
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Vendetta wrote:your twisting my words, but regardless, accessing another persons account without thier permission is also against the rules. and im not sure if the last part is completely coverd by the rules but you would still be in on the accesssing of the jtests account and therefore have still directly broken rules.


The rules state you cannot break into another account. They don't say anything about legitimately(using game actions) stealing stuff that someone else has gained through illegal means. Strangely enough, as you have pointed out though, multiple accounts have been punished for doing so. So it seems there are some unwritten rules.

So when is something cheating?
A - If it bypasses intended game mechanics?
B - If the rules say it is?
C - If people get punished for it?
If A, then overbanking is cheating
If B, then many people have been unjustly punished
If C, then I'm starting an army of multies, cause very few of those ever get punished

Also, take note of the bolded words up there. They are not part of the rules. You can't log into other peoples accounts, period. Permission or no. Many people also conveniently forget about that rule, yet I've never heard of anyone getting punished for it. The game allows it, the rules don't. So do you bank for other people? That's what this thread was about, breaking the rules because you can.


Edit - Munchy, that took some digging didn't it? It's not on the rules page. It's not even on the updates page. You'd have to check the archived updates to find that. I knew they had to be somewhere, but I couldn't find them at first.
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i would have thought saying being in control of more than 1 account would eliminate all suspicion i meant anything like banking for others, i was going to specifically mention banking for others aswell, however i figured it would be straight forward enough when combine with my other statements....obviously not. what i was specifically thinking of when typing it was the selling and giving of accounts.
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Munchy
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But it is there. Until forum puts up that overloading your bank is illegal I won't hold it against anyone who does it. Some goes for those who used the broker to get over 10 k. The guide said it was impossible, but there was no punishment for doing it.

If forum comes on and tells us that is illegal then fine. Until then, I will continue to help my smaller friends.

If you want a better example of bugs that are used look at the tamper data tool. Atleast that gives you a major advantage.(And is something I have never used nor condoned...) Ofcourse chaos players used it just to make the server playable.
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Vendetta
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Sleipnir wrote:
So when is something cheating?
A - If it bypasses intended game mechanics?
B - If the rules say it is?
C - If people get punished for it?
If A, then overbanking is cheating
If B, then many people have been unjustly punished
If C, then I'm starting an army of multies, cause very few of those ever get punished



ohh and, it would be B, and as for your "having someone else hack jtest and you reap the benefits

"6) Using bugs or exploits of any kind, or knowing of and not reporting bugs or exploits, is illegal."

it not perfect, but i guess you could say they are exploiting weaknesses in the server if you realy need something more solid.

is there one for not reporting cheaters? i kinda just scanned them :lol:
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Lord_Zeus
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hmm, sometimes the tamper data ones needed... I don't know if any of you played chaos when it just started to get ridiculous on the private market >_<.
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S T I
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If I remember right, the ability of naq going into your bank no matter the size/amount was made clear when the broker sysyem was brought in, so it was designed for this purpose, so it is in no way cheating :roll:
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That's exactly what I thought, STI. :)

How would it be cheating if it is implied in the functionality?! :-D



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Vendetta
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wooo! go STI :-D
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tamper data has been defined as illegal to use on main and quantum... (think it was forum that said it)

on chaos, it is allowed because of the size of boxes for numbers... but since those are most likely to be enlarged the next wave, then it will be unneccesary to use tamper data there too...
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Emma Desala
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Tamper data? (got a link to where that's explained? :|

Data tampering sounds like cheating at first glance.



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Sleipnir
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Vendetta wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
So when is something cheating?
A - If it bypasses intended game mechanics?
B - If the rules say it is?
C - If people get punished for it?
If A, then overbanking is cheating
If B, then many people have been unjustly punished
If C, then I'm starting an army of multies, cause very few of those ever get punished



ohh and, it would be B, and as for your "having someone else hack jtest and you reap the benefits

"6) Using bugs or exploits of any kind, or knowing of and not reporting bugs or exploits, is illegal."

it not perfect, but i guess you could say they are exploiting weaknesses in the server if you realy need something more solid.



But that same rule could apply to overbanking. Since there are no specific mentions of what is and isn't allowed, how is anyone supposed to know? Overbanking could be deemed an exploit of using the broker system. Especially if you use the broker specifically for overbanking and not for legitimate trades. That's not what it was intended for, no matter wether the functionality is implied or not. So when is unintended use an exploit, and when is it legit? Is it legit when more than X people do it? What's the criterium?
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If everone can do something.. within reason of coarse.. then its not cheating.
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Sleipnir wrote:
Vendetta wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
So when is something cheating?
A - If it bypasses intended game mechanics?
B - If the rules say it is?
C - If people get punished for it?
If A, then overbanking is cheating
If B, then many people have been unjustly punished
If C, then I'm starting an army of multies, cause very few of those ever get punished



ohh and, it would be B, and as for your "having someone else hack jtest and you reap the benefits

"6) Using bugs or exploits of any kind, or knowing of and not reporting bugs or exploits, is illegal."

it not perfect, but i guess you could say they are exploiting weaknesses in the server if you realy need something more solid.



But that same rule could apply to overbanking. Since there are no specific mentions of what is and isn't allowed, how is anyone supposed to know? Overbanking could be deemed an exploit of using the broker system. Especially if you use the broker specifically for overbanking and not for legitimate trades. That's not what it was intended for, no matter wether the functionality is implied or not. So when is unintended use an exploit, and when is it legit? Is it legit when more than X people do it? What's the criterium?


I can see where you are going, but i think you are going to deep, its in the perspective view of what is cheating, which differers from one person to another.

Where the banking/broker system is, it was stated that you could take naq into bank above its cap, so what is a legitimate trade 1 turn for 999,999,999,999 or anything else you like. players who are ascending may only have one friend to tranfer to, there are loads of good things this facet allows players to achieve spy lvls, helping alliances/ friends, selling uu/turns, etc.

everyone can use it.

I think we need another item to discuss :wink:
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Hells__Angel
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I dont regard it as cheating. Far from it.

Its part of the game, and an extra bonus for getting SS.
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