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I keep seeing people talk about how evil and mean CoP is. However, I've yet to see one recommendation on exactly what cop to could better with the exception of massing everyone. So I'd like for people to sound off on what they would change about cop.

This is for a civilized discussion. I don't want to see spamming or flaming just because someone points out a flaw in reasoning.

*disclaimer* this thread by no means indicates that we are even considering changing our current policies. This is for my own personal attempt at trying to understand the sgw community.

Ok, I'll bite...

Personally, I see the CoP formation as a way to ensure that the strongest and biggest players never have to hit each other. Omega, Dirty Dozen, and Dark Dominion have all reached points in their growth that they represent a threat to each other. A serious war between one or more of these three alliances would almost certainly result in an eventual stalemate with neither side being able to gain the upper hand. Given enough time and perseverance, the current conflict runs the same risk.

It's really the same kind of playground mentality that causes boisterous children to gang together and push around the weaker or smaller kids. The phenomenon isn't limited to just kids, of course. The same behavior can be observed in teen-age street gangs and even organized crime. When another powerful kid/gang/crime syndicate comes along, you either preemptively destroy them or make them part of your organization to ensure that you won't have to confront them.

If I were in ETL/REK/Smoosh's shoes, I'm not sure I would have done things differently. It makes sense to destroy or ally yourself with those that can destroy you. However, in a schoolyard you'd be called a bully, as a street gang you'd be called thugs or hoodlums and in the mafia, you'd be ruthless, oppressive, or evil. All and more of these terms have been applied to CoP and the coalition you have formed, justifiably so in many cases.

Even if CoP alliances never hit a single account in the game, you'd probably still be viewed as cowards for sticking together to ensure that you don't destroy each other. I'm not sure it's an argument that you can win no matter what you do. The real solution, of course, is both obvious and likely untenable for you.

The name - no one likes cops.

On a serious side - things like DD's MAD policy frustrate people because they know they have no way of retaliating. Also, Bryan's PMs to mass people got some people annoyed/worried.
I think one of the biggest things for me personally is the harshness of "training wars". At least Bryan was just looking for a laugh, and in DD's policy you actually have to have done something against DD....with these training wars, you're entire alliance is randomly chosen to be massed - often the only criteria is the fact that you are a weaker page 1/page 2 alliance with no connections to bigger alliances.
If it is truly a training war - mass your own guys, then you have practice massing someone when they're online, and how to defend against it. But, yeah, its the training wars that symbolise the harsh fact that CoP can simply choose a target and know that they are untouchable - creates too much arrogance, and genuinely concerns newer players.

- Top 3 alliances all joining up for "protection"
- However they could protect themselves quite easily
- No one masses / declares wars
- CoP alliances are war mongering alliances so they get bored of stat building
- Leads to random massings and "bullying" which I am guessing is out of boredom
- People get even more scared so chances of an attack are even smaller
- Makes it hard for the power gap to get smaller
- Situation just gets worse and worse
- Which leads to what we have now.

So you could say it has resolved itself? We all have a nice big war which is fun, what the game is about. However the question is what is going to happen afterwards.

Maybe the game would be more exciting for everyone if there wasn't this big ominous super power. Maybe people would take it less seriously and be more relaxed, less flaming etc

Just thinking back to Crystal Force. One of the reasons that was smashed because of the super power problem. It has just happened again. So maybe as a community we just need to stop these things growing.

But how about you? How does it feel to be on the side of the fence that has very little to worry about having their growth stunted?

The explantion is simple, tall poppy syndrome. We're at the top, everyone who isn't us wants us somewhere other than the top, we get cut down. Now either we win and go back to our business, or we lose and simply get replaced by an even bigger confederation of alliances which will eventually either break apart or become even more hated "tyrants" of the game. It's just the natural cycle of SGW, get big, stay there, make too many enemies staying there, get swarmed.

q3utom wrote:- Top 3 alliances all joining up for "protection"
- However they could protect themselves quite easily
- No one masses / declares wars
- CoP alliances are war mongering alliances so they get bored of stat building
- Leads to random massings and "bullying" which I am guessing is out of boredom
- People get even more scared so chances of an attack are even smaller
- Makes it hard for the power gap to get smaller
- Situation just gets worse and worse
- Which leads to what we have now.

So you could say it has resolved itself? We all have a nice big war which is fun, what the game is about. However the question is what is going to happen afterwards.

Maybe the game would be more exciting for everyone if there wasn't this big ominous super power. Maybe people would take it less seriously and be more relaxed, less flaming etc

Just thinking back to Crystal Force. One of the reasons that was smashed because of the super power problem. It has just happened again. So maybe as a community we just need to stop these things growing.

But how about you? How does it feel to be on the side of the fence that has very little to worry about having their growth stunted?

If you don't mind, I would like to comment, and ask a question myself
With the current war, part of the psychology is (obviously) bluffing the other person. This war tectonically can't be won by either side, I think most see this. Its more about bluffing the other side about how long you'll

My point/question is do you really believe, "CIA", that you can win this? I know REK, better than most... he's the hardest-headed; most stubbern guy that I know. (Amazing guy - if you don't know him, talk to him sometime!) But I happen to know that he'd rather die than surrender to a good war.. does "CIA" have the same resilience? I personally will quit before I gave up...

The way i see it the main problem is the monopoly on the game. The thing that allows things that are deemed unfair or not right by other players is that there simply isn't another "Coalition" of near equal proportion (with the exception of this "CIA", but we have no idea how long it will last and certainly isnt an official coalition). The problem is there is nobody to say you cant do something and no threat of being retaliated against so there is nobody to keep check. It's like major powers of the world. One superpower will not go on a rampage slaughtering and conquering all other lesser nations because there are other superpowers there which is enough to stop one country from doing that. Now there are really only two solutions to the problem. The disolving of this pact between your great alliances or another group of alliances to step up and prove that you cant have your way with everything on the game.

And a personal annoyance of mine of certain members is the general smugness of some of the people and ego

[DDE] Bastion wrote:My point/question is do you really believe, "CIA", that you can win this? I know REK, better than most... he's the hardest-headed; most stubbern guy that I know. (Amazing guy - if you don't know him, talk to him sometime!) But I happen to know that he'd rather die than surrender to a good war.. does "CIA" have the same resilience? I personally will quit before I gave up...

sorry laura but that's an open-shut case of smugness .

The first point being much more valid than the second, that is my point of view.

[BERSERKER] wrote:The way i see it the main problem is the monopoly on the game. The thing that allows things that are deemed unfair or not right by other players is that there simply isn't another "Coalition" of near equal proportion (with the exception of this "CIA", but we have no idea how long it will last and certainly isnt an official coalition). The problem is there is nobody to say you cant do something and no threat of being retaliated against so there is nobody to keep check. It's like major powers of the world. One superpower will not go on a rampage slaughtering and conquering all other lesser nations because there are other superpowers there which is enough to stop one country from doing that. Now there are really only two solutions to the problem. The disolving of this pact between your great alliances or another group of alliances to step up and prove that you cant have your way with everything on the game.

And a personal annoyance of mine of certain members is the general smugness of some of the people and ego

[DDE] Bastion wrote:My point/question is do you really believe, "CIA", that you can win this? I know REK, better than most... he's the hardest-headed; most stubbern guy that I know. (Amazing guy - if you don't know him, talk to him sometime!) But I happen to know that he'd rather die than surrender to a good war.. does "CIA" have the same resilience? I personally will quit before I gave up...

sorry laura but that's an open-shut case of smugness .

The first point being much more valid than the second, that is my point of view.

Yea, I do try... do I get kudo's for it?

Oh and I won't spam anymore taxy bab, sorry

[DDE] Bastion wrote:

q3utom wrote:- Top 3 alliances all joining up for "protection"
- However they could protect themselves quite easily
- No one masses / declares wars
- CoP alliances are war mongering alliances so they get bored of stat building
- Leads to random massings and "bullying" which I am guessing is out of boredom
- People get even more scared so chances of an attack are even smaller
- Makes it hard for the power gap to get smaller
- Situation just gets worse and worse
- Which leads to what we have now.

So you could say it has resolved itself? We all have a nice big war which is fun, what the game is about. However the question is what is going to happen afterwards.

Maybe the game would be more exciting for everyone if there wasn't this big ominous super power. Maybe people would take it less seriously and be more relaxed, less flaming etc

Just thinking back to Crystal Force. One of the reasons that was smashed because of the super power problem. It has just happened again. So maybe as a community we just need to stop these things growing.

But how about you? How does it feel to be on the side of the fence that has very little to worry about having their growth stunted?

If you don't mind, I would like to comment, and ask a question myself
With the current war, part of the psychology is (obviously) bluffing the other person. This war tectonically can't be won by either side, I think most see this. Its more about bluffing the other side about how long you'll

My point/question is do you really believe, "CIA", that you can win this? I know REK, better than most... he's the hardest-headed; most stubbern guy that I know. (Amazing guy - if you don't know him, talk to him sometime!) But I happen to know that he'd rather die than surrender to a good war.. does "CIA" have the same resilience? I personally will quit before I gave up...

agreed, I have actually posted about this.

War is all about resilence. After the first two waves, nearly nobody has a defense or MS left, and nobody can really get one. The only left is to see which side is willing to get farmed every turn longer. :S

Personally, not only because CoP has more resources, we also have better command structure, motivation, as well as experience to stay together. Unlike CIA, who get their power from a confederacy of alliance, CoP is almost one entity. Unlike CIA who fight because they saw the band wagon rolling, CoP has faught against The Faction and EPAc...etc.etc. They have more experience. Because CoP is unused to losing, they have more motivation to win. Once the going get tough, CoP can probably last longer because they have more motivation to.


***
Okay... back on topic...

I think CoP should lighten it's "training wars". I admit, it's sorta mean... But it's not like training wars are everyday. And we don't sit on them... just one mass...

But to be honest... the "bullying" and "inspiration of fear" is only done by a minority of members. Seriously, just because a few member want to have fun, doesn't mean a whole entity is bad. Most of these people have been doing such things before they entered CoP. And I don't often see these people asking for help.

And self-protection is what everything was about. From the begining of SGW, there had been inter-connection. Before "real" alliances were there, alliances between individual player was there. And after "alliances" were established, inter-alliance relaitionship developed.

Before CoP, there was EPAc, the Network, Librium Coalition etc. Just because CoP happend to end up more powerful doesn't mean it's bad. It is for protection. I thin that each alliance in CIA has at least one NAP with another alliance. CoP is just one big NAP...

DD's MAD policy is perfectly fine. DD has MANY restrictions on attakcing. Attacking a person with defence, raiding a person with defence, and taking planets are not encouraged. If you wish to mass a person, you have to ask high council and have reasonable evidence and proof. I believe they actually give warnings before MAD is implemented. So they ones affected by MAD are just people attacking the relatively peaceful members of DD. And alliance are for mutual protection. I believe every alliance has some form of this policy... it's just that DD said it out loud...


~starry

my only problem is when i build up a big attack steal some naq and am massed or sat on for a while over 1 attack. but apart from that basically my problem isnt so much with CoP my problem is IN GENERAL the pack mentality with ALL alliances where i can attack someone and then i get threats if not retaliation from multiple members from such simple things as naq/raiding attacks (an example i took 300mil off a 30k ranked 70k army player he got stupid with his replies so i reconned him finding 60kuu so i raided most of them then i got threats from a good 4 - 5 people calling ME the antagonist) , or even worse is when they mass/sab you out of the blue you retaliate wiping them out and then yet again pack mentality kicks in THATS my only problem.

i was in alpha many a time ago when it was just starting and its a great place to be the people are close and the game is enjoyable, ever since my return i have been a lone wolf and the pack mentality really kicks in when on your own it just takes the pleasure out of the game, hell i even made that poll about removing turns (it was out of sarcasm to an extent) because the truth is unless you can look after yourself or you have many visible freinds ie.alliance turns are useless as any person active with freinds will usually try and get them (well its the way it seems anyways).

Mango wrote:
Noone can ever catch up with CoPs, being in CoPs means you rarely get attacked no matter what your defence. how many people in omega/dd ever go on critical unless they are actively at war?

If you are not in CoPs then if you dont go on critical then you get farmed so most players go on critical which means less resourses which means less naq to buy uu and get bigger.

So just by being in the super alliance means that the path is already there for you to become a massive player with a huge army size, just walk and talk the line and you will become powerful no matter what because you will rarely get attacked.

Also what is a game if you can NEVER challenge the top people, should everyone be content to sit there in the shadow of the mega alliance and be happy that they are left alone......mostly.

I truly do not understand why players in this mega alliance dont want to war with each other......I really cant, I dont see the point of playing a game where you are unbeatable.....where is the risk? where is the enjoyment of playing with that risk? Where is the enjoyment of having a fair fight or even fighting against the odds?

The only thing i can think of is that there is some other benefit outside the game, or they all the personality of someone who needs to be big and powerful to make themselves feel better, but many of us know someone in CoPs and that just isnt the case.....

Im not trying to accuse anyone or throw accusations around but I seriously do not understand the fun in being in CoPs and KNOWING you and your alliance can beat anyone in the game......

To me its like a 20yr old footballer playing in a game of 10yr olds and running around telling everyone how good he is because he scored 30 touchdowns/goals/try's

no risk........no challenge.......no glory

http://herebegames.com/StarGateWars/vie ... c&start=45

Personally I don't have any problems with members of CoP. Nor do I have a problem with the alliances in CoP in general. But I do not understand why you guys need to be joined at the hip on everything.

You guys are known as those keen for a war at the drop of a hat. But how can you be so keen for a fight when you are up against some lowly alliance. The reason why you guys are up against a less powerful alliance is purely because you guys have full military pacts with those who could offer you a challenge.

Which leads me to my next point. Protection. The current CoP arrangement is all about protection. Sure you guys have mates in DD, Alpha, DDE or whoever. But you don't need to have full military pacts to be mates. If you do, then they arent really your friends, rather just being opportunistic.

The lack of opposition has had some nasty side effects. Certain CoP members have become frustrated, and are taking it out on others, generally those who can't defend themselves. This leads to complaints of bullying etc and people then say CoP are evil. I'd say it was more like they are frustrated.

Also the M.A.D policy of DD and other spinoffs throughout CoP are silly. For warmongers I would have thought you would've liked having conflict. It also doesn't help you guys either. It shelters those who are just there for protection, and no matter how air tight your recruitment drive is, you are still going to get bad eggs in. Say a weaker member of DD or Omega gets hit. They complain back to their alliance and get someone else to do their dirty work for them, and they learn nothing and get no massing/war experience. And when you do enter a conflict, they run for cover. I would rather have 20 medium strength guys than 50 extremely powerful guys with 12 cowards. I think that goes for all alliances really.

So basically, you don't need to have these pacts fellas. I am more than certain that you guys can stand on your own two feet.

If I was in charge of CoP (drools at the thought of the mass mayhem on main that would ensue) I would simply have No Attack Policies or equivalent throughout the CoP alliances. If someone hits you, hit them back, but don't mass them thats just silly. Thats like a hostage situation which is resolved by the police nuking the house.

Sure, still be mates, have convos on msn and keep the communication lines open, but you don't need to be joined together.

Also the M.A.D policies have to go. If someone hits you for naq, steal their naq and let it go. It either means your defense is too low for that amount of naq or they were very very desperate. Either way hit them, back send a message saying don't do that again POLITELY none of this "I will sit on you like a sumo on a chiwauwau".

If war breaks out and you want in sure help them out, the same way as the CIA alliances did, but probably on a smaller scale.

Honestly, I think you guys would enjoy it more, and you wouldn't have to fight alliances on the second page.

The problem has been as far as I have seen is that if you strike a CoP player in a single one off or occasional hit that is fair, then not only are you massed or threatened to be, but you are massed by 20 or 30 minimum other players and sat on.

If you are hit fairly by a CoP player it is usually not a one off- it is then a 3 or 4 times a week event regardless of how much Naq you have out and if you try and do something to stop it, you are massed by 20 or 30 CoP players and the threat of your whole alliance being destroyed is thrown in.

What about if a CoP player has a problem they sort it out one on one? Especially considering their massive accounts and war experience surely they do not need all that back up.

Having said that I do also recognise the many honourable and decent players in CoP as well as the rest of the game.

Okay I think somewhere someone forgot something

THIS IS A WAR GAME.

This isnt cops and robber or a fracking Hostage neogotation.

WAR GAME

Can i make it any clearer???

The same reason GA dismissed EPAc and CFE is because of what you all keep bringing up. The little guys complain about lil bs. So what we mass.

Think if CF was still around (i cant say CFE because that is basicly what The Foundation is ) all the peace that was there. BS
Robe made a first semi-surgical strike on Omega. Opps WRONG IDEA.
Then was absolutely no proof Omega or GA was coming for CF only unfound resolve.
This time we had proof that The Legion was making a plan to come for us.
They hit small. We Hit Back Big. Get over it
the Fact that all u lil guys didnt help them from the begginning jsut made you situation worse. I think what mango said is somewhat true. but since most of you feel that way STHU and sell your account and leave the game because your just complaining about pointless things.

You think were wrong. We think your wrong. Wow endless loop. who will hold out longer. Last time half of CF made a deal with GA. Ooppps You lost because your troops knew there was no chance of winning. Then the leader of CF pulled out because she got massed. Again mistake. we wanted to keep going we had our cahnce to take COP and we let it go. Now i joined COP and see the lies that i was told. proof was shown i even made sure it was true.

I think you all need to get over yourselves. Its a war game. in war games u make pact you work with other.

Thank You Come again

Avitir wrote:The problem has been as far as I have seen is that if you strike a CoP player in a single one off or occasional hit that is fair, then not only are you massed or threatened to be, but you are massed by 20 or 30 minimum other players and sat on.

If you are hit fairly by a CoP player it is usually not a one off- it is then a 3 or 4 times a week event regardless of how much Naq you have out and if you try and do something to stop it, you are massed by 20 or 30 CoP players and the threat of your whole alliance being destroyed is thrown in.

What about if a CoP player has a problem they sort it out one on one? Especially considering their massive accounts and war experience surely they do not need all that back up.

Having said that I do also recognise the many honourable and decent players in CoP as well as the rest of the game.

Last tiem i Was in the Foundation i was taking people out for hitting me once and not once did ne of you disapprove. hell i was asked to leave only after i hit COP members because yall were afraid of me getting you massed.

Robe wrote:

Mango wrote:So Sleipnir, you are saying this game is merely a race to invincibility and CoPs are already there?

If so, I agree

Agreed.

Game Over. CoP wins. Well done guys.

So why are so many still around the you have proved your hope has died and you cant win. o Opps is that propaganda....

I have 2 points from 2 different sides.

CoP side

No one ever noticed or chose to comment on the fact that CoP Volentarily restricted it membership. We as a whole refuse to grow to big. (As was the GA). This is something we did not because we had to but because we wanted to. Also what so many people don't seem to understand is the fact that Many high ranking members of DD/DDE/Omega are actual real friends. They dont hang together for protection they hang together out of friendship. Theses are things I have learned in my stay here in DDE.


Non CoP side

The only thing I myself would like to see changed is the fact single members can't be punished for bad behavior or called out for "unclassy" actions. I think if an alliance wanted to challenge lets say DDE alone then they should have there chance without having to worry about Omega stomping on them.

What I'm trying to say is I think the only time the CoP pact should come into play is if any 1 of the alliances is on the defensive, has tryed all diplomatic ways to end the war, and can no longer protect its self or its members. It should be a defensive pact not an offensive one.