StarGateWars Forums

- EDIT -
Alright, I explained the general idea fairly... unwell, so I'll try again.
Lets say you have a Life force Max of 10 000, this means your reserves are 100 000, The damage currently would be limited to 55k damage, no matter the amount of lifeforce you had (you could have millions out), I propose you change it to your Current Life force + 50% of your Reserves (max reserves), so say your current Life force was 50 000, the total maximum damage would be 50 000 (50% of reserve life force) PLUS 50 000 current life force, so if maximum damage was done, it would leave you with half your reserves left and no current life force. This would mean at least 3 attacks would be needed to descend someone, and it makes it possible to descend anyone, while still difficult to descend someone. Rather than the ridiculousness of this person who has 300k life force out with a maximum of about 25k that can be destroyed per attack. Read on if you want... but that summarises it.


- EDIT -

Alright... I recently attacked someone with about 100k life force available to attack with, they have about 300k out... I was thinking to take a chunk out of it, however they have a very low max life force, somewhere around 5k I'm guessing, I hit them

Starting with 18,960 weildable life force, with 82,020 attack potential after engaging the physical forces standing in their way, and accounting for energy attack power and skill,Coldheart meets ****** - with 4,654 life force capable of being used in battle- in an ascended match of epic magnitude!
Simutaneously, the two ascended beings launch ascended energy attacks on each other. Time stands still, the surrounding physical plane crackles with diffusing power, and the entire Ascended plane shudders while the battle rages.
Coldheart impales ***** with 82,020 of ascended damage.
The energy absorbing power, skill, and the unique skill of energy repulsion -usable only within ones own realm, and their constitution, lessens this by 58,750 to 23,270 total damage taken, thereby reducing their life force and reserves by this amount.

Wait...you realize that you actually dealt more damage, but the Ascended League of Battle (the 'rule makers' in ascended battles)intervened...The result is that:
You did the maximum amount of damage possible on them - one half of their total possible life force and reserve!

******, at the same time, hits Coldheart with 28,408 total power, while also repulsing 3,884 of Coldheart's own attack back at them, for a total of 32,292 potential damage! This, though, by the energy absorbing power and skill of Coldheart, and their own constitution, reduces by 9,742 resulting in 22,550 total damage inflicted by ***** on Coldheart!

This guy is virtually impossible to descend because of this limit on damages, now I agree there needs to be some sort of limit to stop people killing all of the ascended life force in one hit... so I think this limit should be modified from.

- one half of their total possible life force and reserve!
To
- One half of their total max life reserves + current life force, means they can't just make themselves undescendable... its badly worded sorry, what do you think though?

-edit- just changed the wording of the last para

There should be no maximum damage cap on descension. It already costs 99 turns to try and descend someone and there is already a HORRENDOUS rank modifier in place. You should be able to descend someone in one fell swoop if you have the capability to. Especially now with the "black hole of unbelievium" sucking turns away from the top players (OK well not sucking them away but giving us less of a bonus than the lower ranked players). I have level 100 Max LF and level 70 attack. I hit someone recently with, after reduction, was 987K LF of damage. But they only took 151K of that damage. It barely scratched them. There has to be a change. Otherwise you are never going to be able to descend people. Four hours after you hit them, they have been recovering LF. So then you hit them again and they recover four more hours, then you hit them again and they recover four more hours. You keep reducing it by half and you never get to 0 so it cannot be done. Here is the way I think it should be done: When you engage them in an ascended war, it takes four hours. In that four hour time, neither of the parties can be attacked by anyone else. But the ascended battle rages until one or the other is out of LF. So let's say I have 2 million LF when I attack joe shmoe who has 300K LF showing. I keep attacking him until all of his LF and reserves are gone. Each attack I take damage to my LF from whatever he can dishout. So basically, it just has to do iterations of the battle until one or the other is out of LF. No maximum damage cap, just straight LF damage to each player. Say it takes like 10 iterations before joe shmoe is descended, I would take 10 iterations of LF damage to my current LF. Also, I am a firm believer that you can descend yourself if you attack the wrong person, especially if you do not breach their physical defense. If you try to descend someone and do not breach their physical defense, you should take that defense in damage to your LF. If that depletes your current LF and reserves, guess what? You have killed yourself. But jeez Jason, it has to be less difficult than it currently is, which is nigh impossible.

Agreed 100%, its retarded the way it is...

Which is why im saving my turns, for my special little play account

As Admin indicated in the morning session of Admin Chat, he purposely made descension difficult and is not going to make changes in this area anytime soon.

just changed the last bit... might have been misunderstood there , yeah... but this guy is seriously impossible to descend, his low life cap means you can barely scratch him while he does the same amount of damage to me, despite me having significantly larger life force max and better stats on attack and defence.

I am still not sure how all this works so I can't say much but I'll say this. I think desention should be difficult. This is why.

If it is made so that you can deasend in 1 attack at a cost of 99AT then IF you as a top ranked player chose to then you could deasend an account every 2 day. Since everyone is lower then you no one would be safe. Same with the alliances. IF (Big IF there) the powerhouse ascended alliances chose to then they could deasended pretty much the entire server.

As I see it if you want to be able to deascend someone in 1 attack then it should take 1999 AT to launch a deascention attack so then you can't deascend people on a whim.

I also think the damage to being deascended is far to great in the respect that ( lets say ) you and me go to war. You are bigger then me and will surely win hands down. I can not stop or slow you from deascending me. When I'm deascended I loose all production for 2 weeks. You on the other hand continue rebuilding and growing and in all actuality will be just as strong as you were before the war in 24 hrs or less. I then get 2 weeks of ppt ( I think I'm right?). During this time I will rebuild may account as best I can. I will have the advantage of protection and not loosing any resources to outsiders BUT at the cost of not being able to Raid or farm.

Now At the end of the 1 month You will have a bigger and better account then before the war with 1 month of AT's

I will have 2 weeks of AT and a much smaller account.

At this time I can be easily deascended again without even having the chance or ability to fight back YET alone try to deascend you as I wont have enough AT to do so.

As I said in the beginning I am less then 6 months into ascended and have alot to learn. I'm still bottomfeeding on dead accounts and haven't had the pleasure of a good war on this server yet. I don't know or understand many of the dynamics of this game as of yet but these are my observations and they may be flawed. If you see a point that I made that is wrong please tell me about it as I just want to learn.

( just a thought)
Why not let the deascended account repair the entire 4 weeks or let it repair at a faster rate? this will give the loser a chance in ascended but still be wrecked in main. I mean not being able to farm or raid for 1 month will suck pretty bad.

Alright, I think my initial change idea was hard to understand... updated it, should make it clearer. I don't think descension should be positive for an account in any way... I think it should be perm unless you have life saves.

I never said descension should be easy. It shouldn't. But it should also not be impossible (it currently is). Would you grant me this much? Since it is already damn near impossible to descend someone right now, would you be OK with the removal of the rank modifier as it applies to descension? Or the damage cap? Or both? Because right now, descension is just a pipe dream. People can convert DMU into LF and keep putting off descension until the other party runs out of turns. The very fact that I, being the superpowerful ascended being that I am, can do 987K LF damage to someone, but, because they are so small and their LF is so tiny, I can only do 1/2 their max LF plus their LF reserves. Which is absolutely insane.

Look at it this way. Someone who ascended at the beginning of the ascension server and never spent any of their APP (or say they did and put it all into LF). They never touch their account after that. By now, this person probably has millions in LF. Now, let's say, for argument's sake, that this person has a max LF of 18000 and LF reserves of 180,000. Using 99 turns, the most I could do to this person is 99,000 LF in damage. Now let's say that they have 2 million LF showing. They now have 1.901 million LF showing. 20 attacks (and 1980 turns later) they now have 0 LF but still have their reserves left (plus any LF they have managed to recover in the 80 hours it would take to do all 20 attacks. You are telling me that this is right? Not even remotely.

You say, but if we change it, the big accounts would be able to descend the entire server. Well, I cannot speak to all the big accounts, but yeah. I should be able to descend just about anyone who doesn't have a decent physical defense. I worked hard to build my account for just this moment and now it was all for nothing. I cannot effectively damage anyone and they can do as much damage to me as I do to them, because reflection is not affected by the rank modifier. Even though I might have a 61% rank modifier to attack down to someone (that's an average; I have seen it as high as 80%), they still manage to reflect back a percentage of the INITIAL strength attack that I did (and who knows? that might even be affected by their rank modifier for attacking up so it could be more) So I am doing more damage to myself than these people could ever do to me. And that is wrong too.

Basically what Forum is telling me is: you played the game too well, now I am going to have to artificially hamstring you so that you become an ineffectual non-factor in the game. Sorry about the sacrifices you made to your main account. Those are gone forever too and there isn't anything you can do to get them back. I am not just talking about the units and Naquadah I lost through big ascensions. I am also talking about the Naquadah and units I lost at the hands of attacks by LG+1's whilst I was still a prior and a prophet (and I was a prior and a prophet for a LONG time). I fought tooth and nail for the few updates that actually benefitted the person with long-range vision in ascension. Descension was supposed to be the culmination of that vision; it turned out to be a joke. Raising my LF or attack scores in ascension isn't worth it anymore because my damage is not based on my scores but my opponent's scores. It actually encourages people who don't want to be descended to keep their LF scores as low as possible and just work on things like DMU production (to convert to LF). For someone who told me that Maximum LF is the MOST important stat in the game, that seems counter-intuitive. I mean, he already watered down descension enough by only having you have two weeks without your bonuses in main (which frankly is a slap on the wrist and another joke about descension). On top of that there is this ridiculous rank mod for attacking downwards. And now there is a maximum damage cap.

He either has to do one of two things: 1.) he has to change descension and take away the damage cap or make it more damaging to your main account or both or 2.) allow those of us who can't do anything else with our ascension accounts to buy upgrades in main at the cost of not being able to ascend again. I am getting tired of constantly getting screwed for being a good player. I can understand if I had cheated to get to the top, much like Juan did in main. But I did not. I played methodically and calculatingly and I thought that my hard work and perseverence would pay off. But since 95% of the server didn't have my same work ethic, now I am the "bad guy" and I shouldn't be able to rule the roost, even though I earned it.

And I am not going to descend the entire server. But I would like my ascension account to be able to protect my main account without having to jump through impossibly tiny hoops. If a few people in main can "sit" on my account, I want to be able to exact some retribution in ascension. After all, the reason they are able to sit on my account in main is because I sacrificed a lot to be able to reach this point in ascension. So if I am not going to be able to descend people, then let me use my ascension resources to help better my main account. Otherwise, why give them the same bonuses to their main account that I have when I have worked so much harder, sacrificed so much more, and played so much smarter than they have?

Shooting Star, I hear what you're saying. I can even empathize although it's hard for me to muster up much sympathy at this point.

I have invested trillions of naq into fleets hangers in main. I have 15,000 fleets equipped right now but my hanger count is approaching twice that. I had decided long ago that I was going to specialize in planet massings and so that is where my resources went. However, it feels like I am hamstrung (like you) at every turn.

First it was the "only take one planet every 24 hours rule". Then it was the "planet cannot be taken by another player for 24 hours rule". Another rule prevented PPT from protecting the recently taken planet for at least 12 hours. More proposals came, crossing way over lines of sanity like "retake multiple planets in 24 hours", "no abandon planets for 24 hours", and related ilk.

While I suppose that trillions of naq isn't a lot to some players, it represents my entire SGW income career. Instead of players with 30K UP planets and 2 billion defense adding more planet defenses, they have simply **Filtered** and moaned about how multi accounts are the cause of all their ills and through constant hammering, updates have been put into place that continually restrict and limit my ability to play the game in the way that I invested my time and income.

So, as I said, while I empathize with your plight, I can't feel much sympathy because I'm in exactly the same boat, just in a different ocean.

@ Star.. Ok I see better your point. I do think you are getting shafted on many points.

I also see you are not looking at everything also. Admin has said the ascending limit will be raised so you can progress your account further.


While I do think for the most part you and many of the other older players are suffering unfairly now I also understand the need why.

The system is broken, you should be able to deascend people no matter their LF. It should be difficult yes but not impossible as it is now.

I say it is needed because of these things, that are just my opinion and as stated before I'm a newer player to ascended so keep that in mind.

1. Why is the ascended path hidden??? It is stupid. If more people knew and understood things more would play and the server would be more active and everyone would be happier yes? As a new plyer I found it confusing and boring, Honestly now its not confusing anymore but its still boring as heck.

2. Why in the world did it take 2 YES 2 years for deascention to come out???? I'm sorry to be critical but that is just not acceptable. I would have played differently if I had know it was coming but I didn't. It took me nearly 5 months just to get access to the ascended forums and even find out about it.

Not to mention the fact that Yes you have played well and Yes you deserve to rule ascended BUT if deascention had came out before, back when accounts were more evenly ranked then things would be different. Not 1 group being heads and shoulders above the rest and may I point out that you are completely unascendable to lower or newer players and that will never change. I can not and will not ever be able to catch your account. **I guess my point here is the timing of deascention is pathetic this is the major downfall to it, There is escentially no way to make it fair to all players involved. There is no way to make it fair to new or smaller players without shafting bigger players and there is no way to make it fair to bigger players(Who have most definitely earned their positions) without make smaller players defensless whipping posts for certain people to amuse themselves with***


3. Why is deasention set up to be a loser will always be a loser and winner will always be a winner? The loser has the name put on them in main and it can not be denied so why then are they made to suffer by not letting them rebuild proper or even be able to defend themselves? and really 1 month of not playing a server and I would no longer even want to play it. Anytime you take people out of a server for that length of time it has nothing but negative effects as far as I'm concerned.

I thought the idea was to try to get people to play ascended not to get them to stop playing? I never understood that part of it. I mean to be honest it is possible for a person to spend either 12, 24, or 36 days (1, 2, or 3 days per deascention) deascending someone else and they will not be able to play the server for 1 year. 1 year!!!!!!!!! in that time their account will be useless and who would even go back and play a servere after 1 year away from it?


Conclusion,,,,,,,,,, Shooting Star has nothing but valid credible points that should by all right be addressed.

I just feel there is little that can be done to return any form of balance to the game.

Well said Lore. To your point, I didn't even know there WAS a hidden ascended forum until the end of December 2006 when I saw it mentioned somewhere and I was unable to get access to it until near the end of January 2007.

From the time I ascended (around August or September 2006), I had absolutely no idea or clue about ascension, the process, requirements, benefits, pitfalls, suggested actions, etc. I didn't have the benefit of a big alliance coaching me or a comprehensive help document giving pros and cons of choices I was making.

I didn't know anything about descension coming before I ascended or the changes that had led up to it's development. Would that have altered how I did my ascension at the time? Maybe, maybe not.

In hindsight, I would have boosted my APP because I now see how limited my resources are in ascended because I didn't ascend with enough. I think that many of the people that are ascended with, as I've heard it put, "minimum" or "quick" ascensions probably, in many cases, don't know any better because the ascension process is kept so secret.

Not everyone has had the benefit of 2 years in the game and a well equipped and highly informed alliance backing them up.

Just my perspective.

I agree with you Robin

It may have been "cool" in the beginning but its not "cool" now.

RobinInDaHood wrote:Well said Lore. To your point, I didn't even know there WAS a hidden ascended forum until the end of December 2006 when I saw it mentioned somewhere and I was unable to get access to it until near the end of January 2007.

From the time I ascended (around August or September 2006), I had absolutely no idea or clue about ascension, the process, requirements, benefits, pitfalls, suggested actions, etc. I didn't have the benefit of a big alliance coaching me or a comprehensive help document giving pros and cons of choices I was making.

I didn't know anything about descension coming before I ascended or the changes that had led up to it's development. Would that have altered how I did my ascension at the time? Maybe, maybe not.

In hindsight, I would have boosted my APP because I now see how limited my resources are in ascended because I didn't ascend with enough. I think that many of the people that are ascended with, as I've heard it put, "minimum" or "quick" ascensions probably, in many cases, don't know any better because the ascension process is kept so secret.

Not everyone has had the benefit of 2 years in the game and a well equipped and highly informed alliance backing them up.

Just my perspective.

Excuse me, but how do you think our alliance became well equipped and highly informed? We had a number of pioneers (myself included) who went in blindly and felt our way around until we had a grasp on things. It probably took me until my third ascension before I had a clear idea of how to work things in the most efficient manner. I then relayed that information back to my alliance as did some of the other pioneers to their alliances. It wasn't all sunshine and flowers for those of us who went up first, I can tell you that. It was new and exciting, and a little bit scary to tell you the truth. But it was something different, requiring different strategies and a different game philosophy for no stat is safe in ascension, which is unlike main, where you can't destroy attack super soldiers or anti-covert operatives. So now, because we played ascension so well, we get screwed in BOTH servers? I hardly see how that is fair. I can't affect anyone in ascension with the second best account so why not let me weaken my ascension account a little bit to gain bonuses in main which I lost because I thought I WOULD be able to affect people in ascension. Or do you guys want your cake and eat it too? All I am asking for is a little bit of justice guys. If my account is going to be hampered artificially because I played TOO well, then let me realistically hamper it so that I might get some bonuses back in main and have a chance there again.

So I guess the question you have to ask yourselves folks is: would you rather be able to let your ascension account affect your main account or would you rather see all rank modifiers and damage caps removed from ascension? Either one of those options is good for me, but one of them has to be introduced or there will be no reason to play ascension or main anymore.

How "Personal Assault" with Lord_Zeus's suggestion implimented.

And:

Personal Annihilation
A ruthless kamikaze attack on the enemy.
200turns.
They get 2x defense boost than normal.
No damage CAP.


Seems fair to me. You'll get tons of losses more with their 3x defense but if you truly are stronger then you'll knock em out in 1hit.