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Killing lifers {Updated}
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:21 pm
by urogard
Since the previous topic was very broad and people kept on jumping between topics I decided to make a new thread focused on killing of lifers:
urogard wrote:ok, this is just comming plain from my head but seems like a compromise:
1 group of people don't want to see killing/raiding of miners/lifers get introduced
2 group of people want to see it in the game but they know perfectly well that i cannot work under todays circumstances (i.e. unlimited supply of at's)
my suggestion
Killable lifers, and lifers ONLY.
most people have a considerable amount of their miners as lifers (between 20-30% depending on army size, sometimes even as high as 99%, but imo that's their own fault of game style, mine for comparison is way way much under 20% but without ascending would be under 10% actually, so for anyone it is easy to minimize costs)
This means that people would have to rethink their tactics. If they would be in a war and want to avoid loosing 10% of the uu's they might need to turn into spy killers or attackers they would have to pool them into other unit sections (defence, spies= which can be killed) (or attack and spy killers which would often results in big losses if you want to try mass a defence with unnecesarily big amounts of unarmed supers)
and for normal players it would bean that 10% of the uu's they train into miners could get lost in a war
BUT i also think there should be a limit imposed on how many at's you can be attacking people with since as people said making people delete would be easier (but loosing 10% of your uu's isn't by far as much as loosing all and gives you certainly a further way of hurting annoyiong opponents).
The trouble with this is that many raiders rely on burning at's to grow. meaning a limit on using at's would limit their growth in a way no one else would be affected. Therefore the solution would be a new button with the sole purpose of entering the mines of your opponent and wipe all lifers you are able to find (the miners would have fled the mines being alarmed by the sentries and only lifers would remain since they are bound to the mines). Again the percentage destroyed should not be more than about 0.5%-1.5% meaning that nox and critical would be able to prevent you being destroyed completely within a short amount of time since hundreds of attacks would be necesary to decimate your lifer population
hfown wrote:ok make the 'kill lifers' button like the ascended attack, it takes a certain amount of time, like 30 minutes to kill those '12k' lifers so you cant be massed and lose a mil lifers in a minute.
urogard wrote:I know waht you could call the button
invade
you invade the enemy realm and assault their mines. the miners have fled just the lifers that are bound to the mines remain at the mercy of your tropps. of course the mines are vast and chances of finding lifers is low.
and if you do such an attack, it's a prolonged operation. you cant attack anyone else in the next 30 mins (and you kill lets say 0.5% of enemy lifers)
Costs: 50 at's
hfown wrote:and no realm can have 2 invaders at the same time?
Another suggestion that came into my mind connected with this:
If you want, you can use your funds normally used to attract new recruits aka unit production to resocialize your lifers and turn them into ordinary miners
And as the update would come in:
1) everyone would have 75% of their lifers turned into miners
2) For 1 week after the introduction of this update the invade option would be disabled to let people train some more lifers.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 am
by ~Phoenix~
It's a stupid idea that wont ever happen, people keep saying that things ebenfit big people tons more than smaller ones but this benefits little people tons mroe than big people!
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:09 am
by Sleipnir
~Phoenix~ wrote:this benefits little people tons mroe than big people!
Oh. And would that be in the same way as people that have a little strike have small repair costs? Or people with low income will get attacked less? Those benefits are there for a reason.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:29 am
by Hells__Angel
WTH is all this about killing lifers and stuff?
Its not going to happen! Simply because these things are your shell account and that cannot be taken away.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:36 am
by DUDEY
If any killing of lifers/miners happen
I WILL leave the game
Sell up and never come back
Ive played to long and worked to hard to get where i am to have it all removed because some idiot got trigger happy and drunk
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:50 am
by ~Phoenix~
Sleipnir wrote:~Phoenix~ wrote:this benefits little people tons mroe than big people!
Oh. And would that be in the same way as people that have a little strike have small repair costs? Or people with low income will get attacked less? Those benefits are there for a reason.
No, use your head. Big guys can lose tons but on ratio small guys cant lose hardly nothing.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:08 am
by hfown
then how about this, .25% lifers killed per attack but the number of lifers killed in 1 attack CANNOT exceed ...say 2,000 lifers? and for small accounts...
at least 500 lifers killed per attack?
number may not be perfect but... min. limit is 500 lifers per attack, and max limit, .....2000 lifers per attack????? but you cannot lose any lifers, if 500 lifers dead would = 5% of total lifer population... to prevent you from losing more than 95% lifers....
those number probably too much, or not enough, but someone who has the time can calculate if that idea up there ^ has any chance
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:14 am
by urogard
DUDEY wrote:If any killing of lifers/miners happen
I WILL leave the game
Sell up and never come back
Ive played to long and worked to hard to get where i am to have it all removed because some idiot got trigger happy and drunk
seriously what is this scare of being able to loose 10% of your army
this is not ascencion where the situation is much worse but i don't see people complain there (and dont come to me saying that's different, because it isn't and you know it)
is your problem that if you grow and get stronger you are so scared of loosing a little part of it?
If ethiopia and usa would use 1 nuke each on another who would suffer more casualties.
Obviously USA since if you'd hit new york or some other city you'd have massive death toll. ethiopia would have much less casualties since there is no such concentration of population but the USA would still be unbeatable by ethiopia.
If you go against somenoe who has a small army size then he has the potential of hurting you more... but you'll still be way much stronger
you people love to say how stats aren't eternal. so what do you moan about now
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:01 pm
by ~Phoenix~
urogard wrote:DUDEY wrote:If any killing of lifers/miners happen
I WILL leave the game
Sell up and never come back
Ive played to long and worked to hard to get where i am to have it all removed because some idiot got trigger happy and drunk
seriously what is this scare of being able to loose 10% of your army
this is not ascencion where the situation is much worse but i don't see people complain there (and dont come to me saying that's different, because it isn't and you know it)
is your problem that if you grow and get stronger you are so scared of loosing a little part of it?
If ethiopia and usa would use 1 nuke each on another who would suffer more casualties.
Obviously USA since if you'd hit new york or some other city you'd have massive death toll. ethiopia would have much less casualties since there is no such concentration of population but the USA would still be unbeatable by ethiopia.
If you go against somenoe who has a small army size then he has the potential of hurting you more... but you'll still be way much stronger
you people love to say how stats aren't eternal. so what do you moan about now
Ascension is VERY different, its much harder to mass someone up there than here in main. But you're not in COP so what would you know.
It's not fair to let some **Filtered** little 5k army guy kill my lifers and stuff when im massed, it just wont happen EVER.
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:46 pm
by Teal'auc of the Void
If you want everything destroy-able, play ascension. In main, I simply don't like the idea of killing the very base "resource" which miners/lifers basically are.
Teal'auc
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:11 pm
by Lord_Zeus
hmm, "you invade the enemy realm and assault their mines. the miners have fled just the lifers that are bound to the mines remain at the mercy of your tropps. of course the mines are vast and chances of finding lifers is low.
and if you do such an attack, it's a prolonged operation. you cant attack anyone else in the next 30 mins (and you kill lets say 0.5% of enemy lifers)
Costs: 50 at's" Nice idea there, if theres a limit on the amount of times a realm can be attacked it would work rather well, sort of the like the god attacks
, I don't think fixed limits are that good... take for example sabotage early in the game, it became pathetically underpowered (useless), pretty much as it is now... lol cept if you aced someone it can be effective.
Hmm, I know theres like a few of you that want to keep your income and stuff, like have an unkillable thing, well, if only lifers are killable your uu are still unkillable, and they can Only be killed by either you untraining and training them (more lifers) or ascending and transferring back and forward, the attack should need their defence to be on 0 for it to work as well...
make it particularly hard to do, and also depend on the defcon... imo
Your not going to get your entire army wiped out in one hit... itd take quite a while to reduce it by 50%. And if you really want to protect yourself.... go on ppt 4 days and vac the rest. >_<
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:56 pm
by urogard
~Phoenix~ wrote:Ascension is VERY different, its much harder to mass someone up there than here in main. But you're not in COP so what would you know.
It's not fair to let some stuff little 5k army guy kill my lifers and stuff when im massed, it just wont happen EVER.
If you think i'd agree on invade to work like normal ac then you're mistaken. You would need a very big strike in order to deal some damage (my thoughts were around 10 mil strike needed to kill 1 lifer) and would result your weapons to get damaged by 25% in each attack giving you big repair costs, couting in the amount of at's needed and the fact that you can be only invaded by 1 parson at a time every hour or so would make it a lengthy process (by far not like ascencion). I'd like to see a 5k guy build up a 100 bil strike and being able to pay those 8-10 bil per attack for repairs
In addition to that i'm talking about the 10% destroyable part of your account. I never said miners. i only said lifers it is a huge difference
Teal'auc of the Tok'ra wrote:If you want everything destroy-able, play ascension. In main, I simply don't like the idea of killing the very base "resource" which miners/lifers basically are.
Teal'auc
I never said you can kill miners. only lifers it's a big difference. and in ascencion you can get wiped out (and i mean completely) within a day (since you have the attack limit)
but here you would need days or even weeks to loose maybe 5-10% of your income (in most cases you can raid five or six times that in half the time) and it would be much more expensive (high strike+repairs and time intervals between attacks and not being able to be invaded by more than 1 person at a time).
People might argue this puts stronger people at a disadvantage. i wouldn't say so. BEcause although you have alot to loose (in relative terms, 90% of your army is still untouchable) the smaller accounts would have a way much harder time to do you some damage
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:24 am
by Wolf359
UU became unkillable because people started spending too much money building them up and thought it was unfair that they could be killed - surely that was their choice?
Lifers were then introduced as a 'penalty' to creating miners for more income. The supposed penalty being that you can't untrain them to UU.
Being able to kill lifers - and only lifers (i.e. not UU/miners) would seem perfectly sensible) as only 10% of miners become lifers and therefore the player still has a choice, and (god forbid) a small element of strategy, in how many miners (hence lifers to train) - it would be a calculated trade off between increased income or loss of lifers.
But the root problem was making UU unkillable.
(And with that, I'm outta here! - BYYYEEEE!)
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:11 am
by urogard
Wolf359 wrote:But the root problem was making UU unkillable.
(And with that, I'm outta here! - BYYYEEEE!)
which i myself don't support, but killing lifers is a different story as you say
it would add a little element of strategy. so far it's just who has the bigger army size
here you'd have to be strategic about what you do and how you play the game
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:07 am
by Nostradamus
I think this is a good idea, would certainly make the war interesting again