StarGateWars Forums

In light of the recent proposals to do with rules of warfare, I'd like to make a suggestion that takes some of their points and adds a compelling reason to put an end to a war after a while.

War
Declarations of war will depend on actions. 5 or more attacks against a single account during a 24hr period will cause war to be automatically declared. Sabotage if detected will cause a war. When attempting to set back to neutral, check the last of these acts, plus manual declaration of war, and if any of them was less than 24hrs ago, it will fail and war will continue.

Alliance war
Alliance leaders can declare peace or war with an alliance. These relations will override personal relations (check alliance rel first, if neutral use personal rel). If alliance A declares war, everyone in alliance A will be at war with alliance B despite what the personal relations may say. Alliance B will still be neutral. The alliance leader of B can choose to return the declaration, starting full scale alliance war. However, if he doesn't, and members of B rack up a total of 20 or more attacks on A, the declaration will automatically be returned. So no hiding on neutral unless you really are neutral.

To end an alliance war, leaders have 2 options (after 24 hours have passed of course).

Option 1 is to surrender. This is an immediate out, ending the war. However, you will be marked as the loser. Some sort of record will be kept of alliance wars.

Option 2 is to offer a truce. If both parties have offered a truce, the war will also end, but with no winner or loser. This will replace the damage counter system which is widely regarded as inaccurate. Wars will go on until one or both sides surrender. To make sure a surrender will follow, part 2 of the proposal comes into play.

Casualties of war
From now on, miners and lifers will die while defending your realm. The Nox don't like this and will revive any miners or lifers for you. However, if you are at war with the other party, the Nox will not help you.

Due to this change, if someone initiates a war with you, you may get massed right away, but your miners/lifers are safe. Should you choose to retaliate, due to the above update you will end up declaring war as well, putting your miners/lifers at risk. However, you can immediately begin taking out enemy miners because they are already at war with you. To keep your miners safe, simply take no aggressive action. If you choose to go to war, you just might find out what war really means. It will no longer be just both sides massing eachothers defenses resulting in an endless streak of farming afterwards. Eventually one side will have to surrender, or a truce will have to be reached. Otherwise, either side may end up in ashes.

As for the amount of miners/lifers to kill, I'd say 0.01% per 15 turn attack (thats 5k at 50M miners), only if the attacker won, and modified by attack/defense ratios. Lifers know their way around the mines very well and have a better chance at survival. They die at 0.0025% per attack. This means you can hide your miners by conversion or sending them to a
safe account. But this will end up giving you more lifers that you can't save in this manner.

Conclusion
Wars get more dangerous yet more exciting. Wars like the COP/CIA war will not be able to go on indefinitely. A way to kill miners/lifers will be introduced, but a compromise is offered to keep yours out of harms way.

I like this idea a lot. It would bring a lot of balance to how wars are fought and give them actual meaning, other than a 24/7 farm fest.

This suggestion in addition to the Alliance Enhancement proposal would make the game a lot more fun, especially for players in an alliance.

we likes this too...
this could become even greater with some development... not that there are any obvious lacks...

Sleipnir wrote:In light of the recent proposals to do with rules of warfare, I'd like to make a suggestion that takes some of their points and adds a compelling reason to put an end to a war after a while.

War
Declarations of war will depend on actions. 5 or more attacks against a single account during a 24hr period will cause war to be automatically declared. Sabotage if detected will cause a war. When attempting to set back to neutral, check the last of these acts, plus manual declaration of war, and if any of them was less than 24hrs ago, it will fail and war will continue.

Alliance war
Alliance leaders can declare peace or war with an alliance. These relations will override personal relations (check alliance rel first, if neutral use personal rel). If alliance A declares war, everyone in alliance A will be at war with alliance B despite what the personal relations may say. Alliance B will still be neutral. The alliance leader of B can choose to return the declaration, starting full scale alliance war. However, if he doesn't, and members of B rack up a total of 20 or more attacks on A, the declaration will automatically be returned. So no hiding on neutral unless you really are neutral.

To end an alliance war, leaders have 2 options (after 24 hours have passed of course).

Option 1 is to surrender. This is an immediate out, ending the war. However, you will be marked as the loser. Some sort of record will be kept of alliance wars.

Option 2 is to offer a truce. If both parties have offered a truce, the war will also end, but with no winner or loser. This will replace the damage counter system which is widely regarded as inaccurate. Wars will go on until one or both sides surrender. To make sure a surrender will follow, part 2 of the proposal comes into play.

Casualties of war
From now on, miners and lifers will die while defending your realm. The Nox don't like this and will revive any miners or lifers for you. However, if you are at war with the other party, the Nox will not help you.

Due to this change, if someone initiates a war with you, you may get massed right away, but your miners/lifers are safe. Should you choose to retaliate, due to the above update you will end up declaring war as well, putting your miners/lifers at risk. However, you can immediately begin taking out enemy miners because they are already at war with you. To keep your miners safe, simply take no aggressive action. If you choose to go to war, you just might find out what war really means. It will no longer be just both sides massing eachothers defenses resulting in an endless streak of farming afterwards. Eventually one side will have to surrender, or a truce will have to be reached. Otherwise, either side may end up in ashes.

As for the amount of miners/lifers to kill, I'd say 0.01% per 15 turn attack (thats 5k at 50M miners), only if the attacker won, and modified by attack/defense ratios. Lifers know their way around the mines very well and have a better chance at survival. They die at 0.0025% per attack. This means you can hide your miners by conversion or sending them to a
safe account. But this will end up giving you more lifers that you can't save in this manner.

Conclusion
Wars get more dangerous yet more exciting. Wars like the COP/CIA war will not be able to go on indefinitely. A way to kill miners/lifers will be introduced, but a compromise is offered to keep yours out of harms way.

What type of suggestion is this, Miners and lifers die lmao, no way, go think of sumthing else , thats just impossible, Miners/lifers CANNOT Die

NO! no, no and no! stop making suggestions to kill miners/lifers! Not all of us have enormous UP's and have finished ascending, not all of us have huge UP planets either. Not all of us can produce millions of UU a week. I try and even keep up, i need to buy UU, and turns and raid like mad, just to try and have some kind of feasable power. Which is hard enough with 10mill miners. If my miners/lifers get killed, its gonna be a hell of alot harder to even do that. And my 3k UP, unfinished ascentions and by then, minimal income certainly wont help to get me back where i was.

And dont say anything like "well dont mass anyone or hit them back etc etc" what if someone wont stop farming you? yeah sure build a bigger defence, what if they mass the defences you build, cause thier bigger than you and can do that easily. what are people meant to do about that? sit there and take it till they or the farmer quits the game? Or mass them and in turn have thier account reset?

I DONT play Main server so i can be reset back to nothing, If you want something like this why not take it to quantum where it resets every 3 months anyway and therefore shouldnt be a problem.

We have already had a suggestion that could eliminate an account like mine completely in a few weeks, this one could do it in a day if they really wanted to.

And im sure im not the only one thats in a similar possition.

i agree with vendetta stop trying to kill miners/lifers.

Vendetta wrote:NO! no, no and no!

What is this, some sort of conditioned response? You see the words kill and miner in the same post and the only thing that comes out is no.

Vendetta wrote:Not all of us have enormous UP's and have finished ascending, not all of us have huge UP planets either. Not all of us can produce millions of UU a week. I try and even keep up, i need to buy UU, and turns and raid like mad, just to try and have some kind of feasable power. Which is hard enough with 10mill miners. If my miners/lifers get killed, its gonna be a hell of alot harder to even do that. And my 3k UP, unfinished ascentions and by then, minimal income certainly wont help to get me back where i was.

I don't have an enormous UP either. Nor have I got any UP planets. I have ascended only once. And I hardly raid at all. I'm not worried.

Vendetta wrote:And dont say anything like "well dont mass anyone or hit them back etc etc" what if someone wont stop farming you? yeah sure build a bigger defence, what if they mass the defences you build, cause thier bigger than you and can do that easily. what are people meant to do about that? sit there and take it till they or the farmer quits the game? Or mass them and in turn have thier account reset?

You let them sit on you like usual and see no difference with before the update. Remember, if you can't hurt them it's pointless to try, wether this gets implemented or not. Or are you in the habit of massing people you can't even damage?
However if they're bigger than you but you have the power to mass them back, you can do a lot more damage to them than they can to you. As long as they sit on you, you return the favor. See how long they keep it up.

Vendetta wrote:I DONT play Main server so i can be reset back to nothing, If you want something like this why not take it to quantum where it resets every 3 months anyway and therefore shouldnt be a problem.

The resets in quantum are the reason this isn't needed so badly over there. In quantum army sizes only get so high before being returned to 0. In quantum, every war lasts at most 3 months. In main, there is no limit to how large armies can get. And the CIA/COP war has the potential to go on boring people for a year.

Vendetta wrote:We have already had a suggestion that could eliminate an account like mine completely in a few weeks, this one could do it in a day if they really wanted to.

Sure they could. Here's a calculation:
Every attack you lose 0.01% of your miners. So you keep 99.99%, or 0.9999 of your miners. So if someone were to attack you 1000 times, you would have 0.9999^1000=0.904 or 90.4% of your miners left. Now if your account truly is that puny, what makes you think someone would waste 15k AT to kill 10% of your miners? They'd probably get better results raiding your UU every turn.

Nephite101 wrote:i agree with vendetta stop trying to kill miners/lifers.

I really don't see what you guys are afraid of?

If you don't want to fight anyone your lifers cannot die.
If someone declares war on you then YOU have the opportunity to retaliate and hit their miners first dealing much more damage than they could have ever done.

and i did another calculation.
If i had 90 mil lifers and would get attacked i'd loose 2.25k per 15 at attack.
Come on that is really a joke if you are afraid of such losses. even moderate raiding can get you up back again and if you are that big, even though you can't raid you can get yoruself a nifty up

and @ vendetta:
tell me how 0.01% or 0.0025% of your miners lifers allows a reset of anyone?

since you people overreact here's a few numbers:
If you had an account with 10 mil miners, and out of that 5 mil lifers:
After 50 Attacks you are left over with : 9,969,437 miners/lifers
After 200 attacks you are left over with : 9,876,665 miners/lifers

Slipnir imo you should have doubled the % of units killed. It's a joke if you waste 3k at's and only kill 124k uu's

urogard wrote:Slipnir imo you should have doubled the % of units killed. It's a joke if you waste 3k at's and only kill 124k uu's

Numbers are flexible.

stop with the killing of lifers/miners please

but I could see this being exploited...

say person abc and xyz both have 70million armysize... and 30million lifers...

they split into the 2 groups of 3 form alliances... put all the untrained as AC troops... sell defence and then start attacking each other to kill lifers... they stop when they only have 10million lifers... they can now hold an extra 20million UU which at 50million armysize isn't too hard to get... with large super UP planets...

Lifers are a "punishment" for having miners... and stopping you have a humongous amount of UU if you give the ability to kill lifers then people will be able to have more and more UU which just makes them harder to catch/destroy...

TheRook

TheRook wrote:stop with the killing of lifers/miners please

This is the best compromise I could come up with.

TheRook wrote:but I could see this being exploited...

Sorry, but I still don't see the punishment in having lifers. And it would cost 25000 attacks (*15AT) to kill about half of your lifers. If they think it's really worth that, let them have their exploit.

lifers are great so quit complaining.

THis isn't a fair attack lets put it that way, Forget the%

instead, for every turn used 75-100 miners/lifers die.

This way its a standard attack.

Set a limit that only 10% of an army can die per day.

and that only 50% or 2 Mil. damages, meaning that when someone at 2M army size left he can't be hit anymore. or when someone loses 50% of the average gross mean over 1 month period he can't be hit anymore,( note that the arveage is always going down).

BTW this is a way to get rid of the Big guys, which are mostly in COP, however Its' a way to keep the little guys little as they can only purchance so many attack turns.

the reason liffers were made was so some one could defend there uu you wanna kill do raids that was the reason raiding was made because some one suggested we to have minners and liffers they are not ment to be a part of war thats why they were made unattackable in the frist place.

~troy

assyrian worrier wrote:the reason liffers were made was so some one could defend there uu you wanna kill do raids that was the reason raiding was made because some one suggested we to have minners and liffers they are not ment to be a part of war thats why they were made unattackable in the frist place.

~troy

wrong mate
i'm not sure what came first the idea of miners or raiding but 2 things are certain. One resulted in the other and lifers were made to stop ppt abuse where peopel would untran their whole army and leave them as uu's to produce income

at first I didn't like this idea, however, as i thought about it, the only change I'd make would be that nox would not have to be on for the revival of miners/lifers to occur; that way the truly innocent would not have anything to worry about.

As for HE's suggestion, no.... the reason why is because if account at war have the ability to be taken down to 0, then the idea of carrying out war forever quickly loses it's appeal.