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So I was talking with a friend, and he raised an interesting point. Specifically of the glory and rep points being based on being in the top 100 overall, and yet there are individual rankings for offense, defense, and covert capability. He said it may make sense to hand out glory based on the individual rankings, rather than the overall, to let those who have not come close to the top 100 to get some points towards ascension by being really good at one thing, rather than everything. (does that make sense?)

Basically, if someone were to, hypothetically, go all-out offense and get into the top 100 for offense, he should be well known enough to garner some reputation for it.

His suggestion would be to give 1 Glory/rep for each of attack, defense and covert that is in the top 100 of its ranking. Also, give +5 for being in the top 10 overall, and +10 for being one of the top 2 overall.

This would give people more options for ascension. Right now people who have already ascended tend to occupy the top 100 in short order, making it more difficult for others to take those spots. If it is only necessary to concentrate and be very good at one of the three abilities, more people will have the chance to ascend.

This wouldn't neceessarily change the tactics for the second or further ascensions, as it makes sense to get all the abilities up there to get into the top 10 to get more glory points. (top 100 for each of the three plus being in the top 10 would give 8 glory per turn, as opposed to 1 per turn for being #1 in attack, but 101+ for each of defense, covert, and overall)

Just my $0.02CDN ($0.017US)

Fox wrote:So I was talking with a friend, and he raised an interesting point. Specifically of the glory and rep points being based on being in the top 100 overall, and yet there are individual rankings for offense, defense, and covert capability. He said it may make sense to hand out glory based on the individual rankings, rather than the overall, to let those who have not come close to the top 100 to get some points towards ascension by being really good at one thing, rather than everything. (does that make sense?)

Basically, if someone were to, hypothetically, go all-out offense and get into the top 100 for offense, he should be well known enough to garner some reputation for it.

His suggestion would be to give 1 Glory/rep for each of attack, defense and covert that is in the top 100 of its ranking. Also, give +5 for being in the top 10 overall, and +10 for being one of the top 2 overall.

This would give people more options for ascension. Right now people who have already ascended tend to occupy the top 100 in short order, making it more difficult for others to take those spots. If it is only necessary to concentrate and be very good at one of the three abilities, more people will have the chance to ascend.

This wouldn't neceessarily change the tactics for the second or further ascensions, as it makes sense to get all the abilities up there to get into the top 10 to get more glory points. (top 100 for each of the three plus being in the top 10 would give 8 glory per turn, as opposed to 1 per turn for being #1 in attack, but 101+ for each of defense, covert, and overall)

Just my $0.02CDN ($0.017US)

I like this idea...i think it would speed up the process significantly

indeed.
i like this idea, especially since a top 100 person can have stats ranked around 200 (attack, defense, covert) and with shell account weapons being harder to buy enmasse, it should make things fairer

I can understand getting a reputation for being in the top 100 for attack - but who ever got a great reputation from being very good at defense?

I actually think this is a bad idea! At the moment you generally have to have a fairly well balanced attack, defence and covert to get into and maintain your top 100 position.

If Fox's friend's idea is put into place then people would just go gung ho to try and raise one stat quickly to start getting ascension points.

This would put the Goa'uld and the Reps at a disadvantage as the Tauri have a higher attack (therefore easier to get in top 100 attack) and the Asgard have a higher defence (therefore easier to get into top 100 defence).

On a more game-enjoying level - isn't it more challenging to try and get into the top 100 (and hence gain Glory points) now, rather than by this new suggested method?

What you need to remember that it shouldn't be about making it easier to give people a chance to ascend - why should it, everyone else has worrked hard!? But it should be about making it more difficult for somebody to ascend a second or third time.

Or perhaps more people just want more things more easily!?

It seems to me that the whole point of ascension has been missed, due to the fact that, and I hate to say it, Forum has got the implementation of ascending wrong. It is far too easy for a shell account to quickly become very very powerful and re-enter the top 100, gain points and re-ascend - that is the problem and that is what needs to be addressed!!

This is complete BS.

I agree completely with wolf though i'm going to treat this suggestion as hostile...

Such a thing would allow any idiot without the slightest talent in this game to buy a few spy levels and a bunch of units and get a top 100 covert spot (not too difficult if you ONLY invest into covert, every last bit of naquadah)

Same with attack. That is VERY easy to do. Getting into the top 100 attack as a Tau'ri is just a matter of having roughly 1000 turns and a good supply of supers.

I hate this idea. Ascension should be granted only to the elite, only to the ones that have proven they have MASTERED the game, and by the game I mean the true game, the ability to balance the weapons, trained units, spies, turns, untrained, etc enough to get your overall rank high enough.

Hate Hate HATE this idea.

- Esker

The only part of me that really like it is the part of me that thinks: hey... that will help me reascend faster... i can easily get into top 100 covert and top 100 attack...

And with that being the main thought in support of the suggestion, i would have to say its not a great idea to implement. I can see why one would want that, but seriously, that would just cut my reascension time from 3 weeks to 10 days... reascending every 10 days... thats way too short....

dont feel like typing so ill just say i agree with wolf esker and jaxin

Surely this suggestion is pointless as its trying to speed up the process of ascention when its not supposed to be easy as you see in the series.

I got to tell you I've worked pretty hard in the last few days to get into the top 100. Even though none of my stats are ranked in the top 100, I am overall, and I think that balancing the stats, is more glory and reputation worthy than just getting a big attack, and nothing else.

I would be fairly frustrated if all of a sudden something like this happened, and all my hard work in the past few days was for nothing.

Although I do believe that the shell accounts can gain power far too quickly, it's only because those individuals had a lot of support, and prepared ahead and set aside a few resources to get back. So if they were smart enough to plan ahead, and have gained enough allies and friends that are willing to help them get back to the top 100 or even the top 10 then they deserve it.

And on a story note, ascension is supposed to be difficult, and a long process. This suggestion makes it quick and easy. Also, those worthy of ascension generally are the wisest, so it makes sense that the wise are prepared enough to set aside resources that they would use at a later date.

- Geheim

and it isn't even that hard to get in the top 100 anyway... just play the damn game

Wow I have never had a suggestion treated with such open disrespect. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my friend couldnt remember his password for the forums so I let him use my account.

That being I will reply to your comments.

Wolf359 wrote:It seems to me that the whole point of ascension has been missed, due to the fact that, and I hate to say it, Forum has got the implementation of ascending wrong. It is far too easy for a shell account to quickly become very very powerful and re-enter the top 100, gain points and re-ascend - that is the problem and that is what needs to be addressed!!

This was the problem we were discussing. There are 22 shell accounts in the top 100 currently and 9 in the top 30.

His suggestion offered a fresh point of veiw on how to make it so the 22 people that would have been in the top 100 but are not because of held resources, would be given a chance to earn glory and rep.

Now, with that being said, the requirements for glory and rep could be raised as well...

I have to admit that I think the game would become more competitive. How many times has a person reading this been within the top 100 overall and fought to stay there to earn there glory and rep. Just ask yourself if you have done that.
If you have, then consider that competitivness within each stat.

Wolf359 wrote:I can understand getting a reputation for being in the top 100 for attack - but who ever got a great reputation from being very good at defense?

Wow...are you kidding me? Let me throw a few at you. How about the great wall of china...heard of that one...its that massive wall built to fend off the invasions from the Huns in the north after the unification of China. How about the city of Troy (which took a freakin miracle to get into)...what about Fort Knox? The bismark? I think you get my point.

Esker wrote:This is complete BS.

I agree completely with wolf though i'm going to treat this suggestion as hostile...

No need for hostility...its not like the suggestion would have to be implimented as is...it is not without its flaws. It is after all mearly a suggestion intended to solve a problem that has been created.

Esker wrote:Ascension should be granted only to the elite, only to the ones that have proven they have MASTERED the game

This comment is not without its irony. MASTERED the game? More like MASTERED how to minipulate the game. In my eyes, the people that have mastered this game are not nessesarily the ones in ancension, but the ones that manage to make a playable character without the use of PPT or unit transfers or naq sharing. They offer suggestions that could improve the game for everyone in spite of people that would spit their suggestions back in their face like you just did.
My friend offers suggestions for improvment to me on a regular basis but doesnt like posting on the forums.

Bottom line: The point of this suggestion is not to speed things up but designed to give those that are being pushed out of earning glory and rep by people like us.

I'm sure Wolf can handle his 'half'...

Fox wrote:No need for hostility...its not like the suggestion would have to be implimented as is...it is not without its flaws. It is after all mearly a suggestion intended to solve a problem that has been created.

Granted, that was an attempt at humor. I suppose it's difficult to pick up on sometimes with me. Of course I would like to point out, there is no 'problem'

Fox wrote:This comment is not without its irony. MASTERED the game? More like MASTERED how to minipulate the game. In my eyes, the people that have mastered this game are not nessesarily the ones in ancension, but the ones that manage to make a playable character without the use of PPT or unit transfers or naq sharing. They offer suggestions that could improve the game for everyone in spite of people that would spit their suggestions back in their face like you just did.
My friend offers suggestions for improvment to me on a regular basis but doesnt like posting on the forums.

It's a bad suggestion. I tend to spit bad suggestions back, as do most.
I'm not complaining that it was posted, but I will use whatever means necessary to make it clear it is a bad suggestion. That being said, I'll continue with the rest of this. That's your eyes, not in the eyes of Forum, clearly, or he wouldn't offer the the bonuses in the first place. However that's not the most important factor, as i'm not here to debate the 'morality' of ppt. The players that have MASTERED the game find themselves in the top 100, it is that simple. That is why the rankings work that way. Any idiot can completely invest into one stat and find themselves in top 100 of it, especially if they are a race that specializes in one stat. I'm not even going to bother discussing the disadvantages created toward the Goa'uld by this 'great' suggestion. It's bad. Pure and simple. There is no good to be found in this suggestion. NO POSITIVES! How much more clear can I make this. Reaching top 100 in ANY stat, leaving no regard to the other two is EASILY done. Reaching the top 100 is a great accomplishment, worthy of reward. Thus, ascension.

Fox wrote:Bottom line: The point of this suggestion is not to speed things up but designed to give those that are being pushed out of earning glory and rep by people like us.

Like who? Like the people that have played the game longer, have more experience and have the talent, and time invested it takes / took to get where we are? I don't know about what you think, but ascension is a reward to the vet players. You have to invest enough TIME into the game, to get to the top 100. You have to log in those extra times a day to ensure you aren't attacked, you have to set that realm alert just right while you sleep, you have to do this for weeks, even months before you approach the top 100. When you say "us" you mean the players that really play the game, that take it seriously, that work toward it and our time invested reflects it.

What you suggest could result in new players ascending in less than 1 month. EASILY. The intentions of the suggestion matter not, the only result that will come of it is what has been discussed, unwanted, speeding up of the ascending process.

- Esker

Hmmm.. well i think each time the game is restarted we should choose a different point in the timeline, start thier as it would appear to be in the timeline, with the reps for each person, then we twist the game as we battle race against race against asgard~tauri alliance, but more so, give me the abilities to customize my own planet somewhat with out overloading the server..

. well caus that would be unpleasent... but anyways, as long as ive got some quantom wars to look at occasionaly im rather amused... i dont much care for ascension quite yet since ive been here for around a week but as for this idea... mmm... it doesnt sound that bad, you could just give the person a third of the normal amount of glory they would get for what ever positions they hold, so what?

I mean maybe you guys are angry about it, but its just a game, besides, the tauri if they focus purely on offense someones gona notice them... an either sab em to shame or beat the wazzoo out of them so that they become a farm for one of the alliances. As for the asgard... well we deserve to ascend...not that i much particularly care to in the game at this point... ehhh...

Peace be with you

Oh, and why dont you just have the unit productoin and spy levels added to give both you guys better chances if our defense and offense bonus' bother you, besides, atlantis wasnt all about shields and giant laser beams, they had loads of civilizations springing about, perhaps thats another option,

each planet starts out wit a civilization thier, gou'old with thier slave hovles, then they can upgrade to like jaffa towns, and finally when you have so many symbiots matured and cant stand another tastey bite, you start emplanting them into spare hosts and start a citey which could boost your glory stats by its presence,

and it could have like its own development over time by building its own tech level and spy level, sorta independent of you and eventually as the numbers grow theyll bypass your abilitys as far as tech and spy... perhaps it could add a new option to your military as well...

like taxes on it or somehting... and it could be sorta like civilization but with out thte effort... just a side show to the game... an when you get attacked by people they to are attacked and attempted to be raided but they defend themselves if your own forces are beat.

Also, the citey could hold your vault of naquadah, if they break your own forces and the citeys defenses, they RAID YOUR BANK! its about time thats added....

Fox wrote:Wow I have never had a suggestion treated with such open disrespect. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my friend couldnt remember his password for the forums so I let him use my account.

That being I will reply to your comments.

Wolf359 wrote:It seems to me that the whole point of ascension has been missed, due to the fact that, and I hate to say it, Forum has got the implementation of ascending wrong. It is far too easy for a shell account to quickly become very very powerful and re-enter the top 100, gain points and re-ascend - that is the problem and that is what needs to be addressed!!

This was the problem we were discussing. There are 22 shell accounts in the top 100 currently and 9 in the top 30.

His suggestion offered a fresh point of veiw on how to make it so the 22 people that would have been in the top 100 but are not because of held resources, would be given a chance to earn glory and rep.

Now, with that being said, the requirements for glory and rep could be raised as well...

I have to admit that I think the game would become more competitive. How many times has a person reading this been within the top 100 overall and fought to stay there to earn there glory and rep. Just ask yourself if you have done that.
If you have, then consider that competitivness within each stat.

Yes, but why make it easier for people to get Glory and Rep points through this method??? - will it not make it easier for the new races if they also use this method?? You see the Catch22 situation we're getting into?

Instead of using this 'fast track' method, as I'm going to call it, we need to think of ways of making it more diffciult for the new races to get into the top 100.

Fox wrote: Wow...are you kidding me? Let me throw a few at you. How about the great wall of china...heard of that one...its that massive wall built to fend off the invasions from the Huns in the north after the unification of China. How about the city of Troy (which took a freakin miracle to get into)...what about Fort Knox? The bismark? I think you get my point.

Bottom line: The point of this suggestion is not to speed things up but designed to give those that are being pushed out of earning glory and rep by people like us.

Great Wall of China: History indicates it was breached by invaders more than it kept them out.

Troy: Failed through sheer stupidity.

Fort Knox: People have the wrong impression of what Fort Knox is. Sure it is a gold depostiory (and a pretty crappy one by todays standards) - but it is protected by a shed load of troops - and I believe it has been breached on more than one occassion (and I'm not talking about Auric Goldfinger! ).

Bismarck: Wasn't that sunk?

I take your 'Bottom Line' point - but surely the problem isn't with how the game was before ascension - but how people can ascend for the second and third times!!!??? Like I said it is this that needs to be addressed, by making it more difficult - as currently it is too easy - new races - better weapons - how does that help those still with the original races?

I know I seem to be banging on about the same thing - but getting into the top 100 for the original races isn't the problem - it is the fact that it is too easy for the new races.

Have I managed to get that across yet??