Over Population / Unsustable Population Growth

[MEZZANINE]

Offtopic, but since you challenged it...

On over-population, that's no myth, scientists have warned for decades that our population was growing to large, the country with the highest single population has tried for decades to limit it's own population growth unilaterally, even the UN has now officially recognised that current population growth is unsustainable. We have more and more people with less and less resources every year.

To be frank the economic collapse you are always talking about is also linked, industrialisation means we need a lower labour force while our labour force is exploding in numbers, hence ever increasing unemployment to be subsidised by those in work and lower wages ( standard of living ) since it's an employers market.

I'm not even going to reply to ANY of that, such is the level of fallacy in everything you have said!


Back on topic...

I didnt want to spam another thread or divert it's focus onto a loosely related topic so I have split it off here.

This is the world population clock, rising every second

http://galen.metapath.org/popclk.html

This is nice simply graph of population growth showing the world population has doubled in the last 35 years

http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/expl ... +the+world

This simply graph shows that the amount of agricultural land has barely moved in the same time

http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/expl ... l=en&dl=en

In fact just look at the public data on as many stats as you can and say what you think it means

http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/over ... l=en&dl=en





Ive said it many times, continuous growth of any kind is unsustainable. In population this is clearly evident since we have finite land and resources, the fossil fuels we rely on and continue to burn in increasing quantities every year will run out this century. Some nations have alternatives available ( The UK could be self sufficient in wave & tidal if we had the will to do it ), but other nations simply couldnt even if they wanted to. Factory farming and GM specialist crops are already in use to produce enough food for us, but both are vulnerable, lack of natural mutation through variety makes factory farmed animals and specialist crops are more susceptible to disease. Climate change is making more land unusable while also allowing pests like insects to move into area's they couldnt previously inhabit. Worldwide housing shortages without the money ( and in many cases land ) to expand the infrastructure. Not enough jobs for the younger generation and even less in the future as people have to work to older ages................



We have to many people already yet amazingly we encourage people to have more children in some crazy pyramid scheme so the bottom ( youngest ) generation can pay for themselves and the generations above them. IMO the biggest example of Boom & Bust in history, and god help anyone alive when this bubble bursts.

[Zeratul]

Hmm... this makes us think of an interesting scenario we thought of some time ago...

Should someone be punished or rewarded if they were to kill 25% of all humans on Earth?


The impact of overpopulation is already appearent in some areas of the african continent. Even with extreme amounts of imported food, the general populace is starving. Some of it can be attributed to local politics, but the majority comes from the average mother having something like 10 children, of which 8 or so starve to death. While politically unpopular, a forced regime akin to that the peoples republic of China has used to stem its population growth would probably solve much of the problem, particularly if combined with forced education. The problem lies in who should-or can-enforce it.

[Juliette]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Avenger. Go come here and bring your argument.

[Legendary Apophis]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Oh a secret society!
What are the solutions this CVTM club proposes?

______


The fact is there is over population, if people weren't so opposed to contraception in many nations around the world included our own nations, it wouldn't be as far as it is, and wouldn't go dramatically towards what we go towards to...

[Dubby_CompGamerGeek2]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Oh a secret society!
What are the solutions this CVTM club proposes?

______


The fact is there is over population, if people weren't so opposed to contraception in many nations included our own nations, it wouldn't be as far as it is, and wouldn't go dramatically towards what we go towards to. But I oppose myself with the ones who want to reduce it drastically (war, sterilization, etc...), because these people simply support such plans if they were to be included into the survival plans, and they wouldn't find real proper arguments to explain why some people would deserve to survive rather than the others, especially if the ones concerned to be "terminated" were to be family/friends or people who would have higher qualifications than them.

agreed.

from what I have read in scholarly articles, (such as National Geographic, and NYT),
the key appears to be convincing families that their children will live...

to reference the example, to show and help and teach people that they don't need to have 10 babies for 2 to survive.

and convincing by giving them the tools and help and education to make having 2 children who live
to adulthood the reality.

[Legendary Apophis]

agreed.

from what I have read in scholarly articles, (such as National Geographic, and NYT),
the key appears to be convincing families that their children will live...

to reference the example, to show and help and teach people that they don't need to have 10 babies for 2 to survive.

and convincing by giving them the tools and help and education to make having 2 children who live
to adulthood the reality.

Problem you see is that it doesn't happen only in poor countries like Somalia etc...where people produce kids in mass thinking most of them could/will die at one point.
It also happen in Muslim nations in Middle East Arabia and emirates (not really the poorest nations in the world), and also happen quite a bit in Europe's immigrants communities (extra European mainly).
I know that families from suburbs have from 3 to 7+ children in my country and I suspect it's a/ because of the stupid system of € subsidies where the more children the merrier €-wise, and b/ those irresponsible parents, coupled with c/ their refusal of contraception for religious/cultural reason, in spite of not being able to sustain such a sized family, will produce said children attracted by fact they will get subsidy help and cannot afford abstaining and refuse contraception. It's such stupid things like subsidies for extra children that "help" into making families larger than they should be.

[Psyko]

I blame these people.

On a serious note, I think the biggest impact is education, health resources for countries in need, and bringing farming technologies to African countries so they can start growing their own food there (increasing world agriculture and decreasing the need for imported foodstuffs).

There is also the cultural aspect of certain countries, like those of China and India, which cause overpopulation to occur. Sadly, there is not much we can do to force a change in those customs. The same with farming families who believe they need to have 8-20 kids just to till the fields and support the family. Or religious people, like the Duggars, who do not believe in contraceptives because of their faith. Much as I would love to knock sense into all of these people, no one can force their beliefs or customs on other people (a lesson America has not yet learned).

[Juliette]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Oh a secret society!
What are the solutions this CVTM club proposes?

Forced reduction and maintaining of the world's population at 100 million, with optimal respect to the gene pool (i.e. most diverse option). All menial labour executed by robotic facilities (like farms and factories; neither robotic farms nor factories are new), contraception as a standard, pre-natal checks for diseases and defects (wide range, but only actual defects, not some obscure "omg let's be white" thing), termination if found. Euthanasia, both at patient request and in the case of proven mental inability to recover.
Science geared towards improving the quality of life and counter-ageing.

Basically that is it. It is (its members are) not evil.



(CVTM is another group, aimed at reducing the population of the Netherlands alone to 10m. They are similar to a fireman trying to put out a forest-fire with a blanket. And they are rather racist in their attitude. Not a very nice group.)

[Legendary Apophis]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Oh a secret society!
What are the solutions this CVTM club proposes?

Forced reduction and maintaining of the world's population at 100 million, with optimal respect to the gene pool (i.e. most diverse option). All menial labour executed by robotic facilities (like farms and factories; neither robotic farms nor factories are new), contraception as a standard, pre-natal checks for diseases and defects (wide range, but only actual defects, not some obscure "omg let's be white" thing), termination if found. Euthanasia, both at patient request and in the case of proven mental inability to recover.
Science geared towards improving the quality of life and counter-ageing.

Basically that is it. It is (its members are) not evil.



(CVTM is another group, aimed at reducing the population of the Netherlands alone to 10m. They are similar to a fireman trying to put out a forest-fire with a blanket. And they are rather racist in their attitude. Not a very nice group.)

You do realize it would mean getting rid of 98.5% of current Earth population?
That 100mil people is probably less than a fourth of European population alone, extra-European populations (immigrants) excluded from the calculated amount?

[Juliette]

You do realize it would mean getting rid of 98.5% of current Earth population?

Yes.
It is humane to kill them quickly. Why would you let them suffer from hunger and illness, and devour resources that would better be used by the 100 million remaining humans? After all, the propagation of the species is the most important principle in existence. Reducing the world's population to 100 million while maintaining genetic diversity is simply a 'reset'. We have failed, time to start again, with a better setup than before.

How is this shocking. It is inhumane to demand humans who suffer from starvation and have no chance of bettering their situation be left to rot in the gutter like they do today.

[Legendary Apophis]

And I am totally aware about what means would be used to reach such level of population, and obviously, I'm not going to agree with that, because I'm also sure I and my family probably wouldn't meet enough criteria to be part of the surviving bunch as my origins are probably not "noble" enough to be deemed worthy to be granted the right to keep living.
I consider I can do something with my future as I am still doing studies, I didn't spend all those years at school to be told I among the other 98.5% 'not worthy' people would be terminated because I am deemed by some obscure group not worthy to be among the ones still deserving to live.

[Rudy Peña]

I am a signatory member of the Club of 100 Million. I have a pin with a skull, crossbones and four pips.

Oh a secret society!
What are the solutions this CVTM club proposes?

Forced reduction and maintaining of the world's population at 100 million, with optimal respect to the gene pool (i.e. most diverse option). All menial labour executed by robotic facilities (like farms and factories; neither robotic farms nor factories are new), contraception as a standard, pre-natal checks for diseases and defects (wide range, but only actual defects, not some obscure "omg let's be white" thing), termination if found. Euthanasia, both at patient request and in the case of proven mental inability to recover.
Science geared towards improving the quality of life and counter-ageing.

Basically that is it. It is (its members are) not evil.



(CVTM is another group, aimed at reducing the population of the Netherlands alone to 10m. They are similar to a fireman trying to put out a forest-fire with a blanket. And they are rather racist in their attitude. Not a very nice group.)

I remember this....it was on a episode of Sliders.

[Juliette]

I remember this....it was on a episode of Sliders.

*grin* Plausible deniability, dear Rudy.
@Jim: See my edit. I wasn't finished when the page submitted.

[Rudy Peña]

I remember this....it was on a episode of Sliders.

*grin* Plausible deniability, dear Rudy.
@Jim: See my edit. I wasn't finished when the page submitted.

Ah, I see.

I personally think we have the stuff to sustain our near 7bil population. But due to money and greed, we cant do it even though we could.

With the amount of food Amercians buy and then the amount they throw away is enough to feed many homeless people or families in other countries.

[Legendary Apophis]

I don't see what that edit changes to what I said. Considering the population suffering from starvation and extreme poverty doesn't equal to 98.5% of world population. It would mean the educated middle classes around the world would be deeply reduced (should I say, massacred, more fitting) as well. As I said too, I would have my right to live and my future lifted because some obscure group want to have an almost human-empty world as me & my family are probably neither 'noble' enough nor socio-professional classified high enough to fit the "criteria of excellence" to be deemed worthy to keep right of life.
I don't see how I couldn't see this as shocking to know I could die because I don't deserve to live according to some criteria list of some obscure elitist group (which would be quite large and specific/strict to only keep 1.5% of population).

Ironically enough, the only way me and my family could have chance to be spared within such destroy-the-world scenario, would be if there was an ethny factor to such selection, keeping only the "Caucasian" from middle and upper classes alive.