changes to ascension

[Defense-Forcefield]

DMU - LF conversion rate can not go up based on size, influence power, charisma, production, or LF because that is just punishing the good players for being good again

u think u would have reach got rank u have without the full CoP help ??? my army size is LOWER THAN LAST YEAR in ascended.

each ascension, i invested ALOT, and now, i have been massed for 8 month by cop. I had rank 10 influence power and close to 400bil def LAST YEAR.
i have been raided by all the leechers of cop, each time after ETL, cork, and some other DD massed me.

it's not the skill who help in ascended, only the alliance. u was in the right one when ascended was launched, u'r lucky, nothing else.

about superweapon, u will loose 4 mil planets if someone use it on u ? it's more that non cop where "autorized" to have for a long time.

and if u look to change something else, think to the option of "sending ass"
with your lvl 500 in assa, u everytime send me 20k assa to kill me 100k defender systems. Ascended is corrupted, and will never be balanced.

[Manetheren]

You have taken everything else away from us. If you take our ability to grow away, then you leave a bunch of huge accounts with nothing to do but take out their frustration on the lower accounts. It takes one REALLY good ascension or perhaps two exceptional ascensions to make your account self-sufficient in ascension. I can't help it that people didn't play ascension the way I played ascension. I played to win. Others played to get bonuses in main.

This is a gross generalisation. I know many people that tried very hard to play ascended.

Here is the thing...

If you get extorted, massed or raided on a regular basis for a year and you can't put a scratch on the person doing it because they ascended 6 months before you even started playing SGW,

or

because they belong to a power house that protects them....then most sane people give up and go find a game where they can actually compete.

Well said Robe. It's wrong to assume everyone that isnt in the top 10-20 accounts ascended to "just get main bonuses". What happens when you witness the strongest ascended person you know have their account raided on a daily basis and defense massed repeatedly and then get extorted to boot.. what do you think that does to people's motivation to play that server. If its no longer possible to raid someones resource planets away then that helps a bit but its also important to have ppt or vacation option available. Tekki's situation is a perfect example of that.

[TheRook]

Mojo whether you do small ascensions or large ascension shouldnt make a difference you should be able to compete regardless.

If this statement was transferred to main then you would be saying that someone who just relys on UP growth should be able to compete with someone who raids/buys UU and relys on UP growth... its all about effort/reward

The only comparable you can make with your arguments are those that ascended at the same time as you all those that ascended after are at a major disadvantage and shouldnt be penalised for it.

The people that are ascending and not putting as many resources in should not have the same bonuses or APP given to them...

Players should have the freedom to chose the style that they wish to play and not conform to your ideals.

Players can choose there own playing style... which is why people have little to nothing on the ascended server... because they chose not to put the effort in... and as such for putting no effort in you will get nothing in return... same as the main server... you just sit on your UP purely for growth you will never match someone who raids or buys UU for naq and relys on the UP too.

as with any MMORPG - Time & Effort == Best Accounts

Either that or I will just choose a protege and start funnelling DMU to them to make them the most god-awful powerful account in the game

/puts on his hat shaped like a funnel

TheRook

[Balhaar]

Mojo whether you do small ascensions or large ascension shouldnt make a difference you should be able to compete regardless.

If that half arsed statement was true then there would be absolutely no reason to do 'Large ascensions'

As The Rook said, if you put more in, you get more out. Same with anything in life, not just MMORPGs

example

You put alot of money into a bank account you get more interest. You dont get the same amount as someone who put a fraction in as you.

This is a capitalist game, not a cummunist one.

[RobinInDaHood]

The current out-of-control situation on ascended is really a lack of attention for a long time. If reasonable caps had been put on growth or dynamic caps implemented that restricted uncontrolled growth, if descension had been put into place rather than paid lip service for so long, if outrageously large ascensions from main were capped from the beginning, if introduction of planets in main hadn't allowed some of that massive growth in main, etc.

If, if if.

Truth is, I don't think that Jason expected the current top players in ascended to become as successful as they did. Rather than beating each other up about what is or is not fair and what has gone on in the past, concentrating on a reasonable set of compromises is going to be more productive to fixing some of the ascended server problems.

Compromise is something that I don't see much of going on. Everyone has their own agenda about how to change the server to fit their own particular set of circumstances. I don't blame anyone for that; it's human nature to avoid change and when change is required, to look for changes that will cause the least amount of impact.

However, it's going to be absolutely, unequivocally IMPOSSIBLE to create a set of conditions that will satisfy everyone's needs or wants. We should be focused on creating a set of compromises knowing that in some way, big or small, our accounts on ascended are going to be impacted negatively.

I am willing to have some changes put into place that will make it harder to compete, harder to grow, harder to protect myself, and harder to damage bigger players, etc. as long as those changes are, overall, in the best interest of promoting and encouraging growth and play on ascended.

If you aren't focused on the same big picture and are only concentrating on your own individual needs, you're doing a disservice to yourself and the future security of the game.

Just food for thought and not directed at anyone in particular...

[Sinister]

Forum: congrats!! As for an original name, how about Xavier, or Ronan.... or Daniel Jackson (insert your last name here)

To business... What was "vacation mode" put in the game for? is it being used for that purpose? How is this different from other game features that have not been used as intended? As for Labor planets being untouchable, I think that might help the server. Knowing that your account cant be totally destroyed might motivate more people to play. But i still think either 1- vacation mode on both servers should be linked, or 2- ALL bonuses and asc. blessing should be lost if your on vacation on the ascended server.

[TheRook]

Forum: congrats!! As for an original name, how about Xavier, or Ronan.... or Daniel Jackson (insert your last name here) .

Daniel Jackson Five?

To business... What was "vacation mode" put in the game for? is it being used for that purpose? How is this different from other game features that have not been used as intended? As for Labor planets being untouchable, I think that might help the server. Knowing that your account cant be totally destroyed might motivate more people to play. But i still think either 1- vacation mode on both servers should be linked, or 2- ALL bonuses and asc. blessing should be lost if your on vacation on the ascended server.

yes Vac is being misused... as being untouchable on the ascended server and not really losing much...

Labour planets like miners in main need to be safe to allow proper growth otherwise main would not have miners and purely UU would be your way of getting income

and as I've said several times the bonuses on main from the ascended server need to be reduced if the ascended server is on vacation mode...

TheRook

[Robe]

VAC on Ascension = No Ascended Blessing in Main...
This will mean for those actually on vacation they wont care about not having any bonus as they will probably be on vac on both servers...

but for those sat on vac hiding so they dont get descended they will actually be losing more than if they didnt hide on VAC or get descended... meaning more reason for them to be off permenant vac in ascension and also reason for those who never log onto ascension after ascending who stay in practically permenant vacation.

Thus forcing people to log on and either play or just not stay on vac mode... TheRook

Nice thinking Rook.

If you are on vacation in ascended then should not have access to your ascended blessing. However, you should keep other benefits as you are probably on PPT in main - away from home.

However, if a player is permanently on vacation (> 60days) then they should lose all benefits, because they are not playing.

[Corsair]

Mojo whether you do small ascensions or large ascension shouldnt make a difference you should be able to compete regardless.

If this statement was transferred to main then you would be saying that someone who just relys on UP growth should be able to compete with someone who raids/buys UU and relys on UP growth... its all about effort/reward

who plays a game and relies on nothing but UPin the same token you have to rely on UP but currently past 75 mill you have to rely on nothing but UP and the UP bonus from officers and/or UP planets

The only comparable you can make with your arguments are those that ascended at the same time as you all those that ascended after are at a major disadvantage and shouldnt be penalised for it.

The people that are ascending and not putting as many resources in should not have the same bonuses or APP given to them...

They dont have the same bonuses of APP as the have ascended with less and have less APP and so less LF so less levels hence less bonuses but with work they can even it out.

Players should have the freedom to chose the style that they wish to play and not conform to your ideals.

Players can choose there own playing style... which is why people have little to nothing on the ascended server... because they chose not to put the effort in... and as such for putting no effort in you will get nothing in return... same as the main server... you just sit on your UP purely for growth you will never match someone who raids or buys UU for naq and relys on the UP too.

as with any MMORPG - Time & Effort == Best Accounts

I refer to the 3 posts above from Blahh, Defence Forcefield and manathren

Either that or I will just choose a protege and start funnelling DMU to them to make them the most god-awful powerful account in the game

/puts on his hat shaped like a funnel

TheRook

Mojo whether you do small ascensions or large ascension shouldnt make a difference you should be able to compete regardless.

If that half arsed statement was true then there would be absolutely no reason to do 'Large ascensions'

As The Rook said, if you put more in, you get more out. Same with anything in life, not just MMORPGs

example

You put alot of money into a bank account you get more interest. You dont get the same amount as someone who put a fraction in as you.

correct but this isnt a bank where you can steal cash from the other peoples' accounts

This is a capitalist game, not a cummunist one.

A capitalist society allows for growth and competition and by stopping monopolies if it doesn't allow for growth the economy fails and the society fails. At the moment ascended is a monopoly with the top ten-twenty ruling the server.

[TheRook]

if the ability to untrain/raid the income planets is implemented then those growing will not lose everything they will still have there income planets to untrain to rebuild they will also have plenty of DMU to rebuild also...

at the moment a lot of people are unable to keep growing due to people destroying their accounts and removing there income planets...

main is a prime example of people still able to grow after being savagely massed... you still have your miners which you can untrain to replace your troops and also to provide income.

obviously being sat on permenantly on either server will cause huge problems as with being sat on in any text based MMORPG

TheRook

[chargin]

3 suggestions to make ascended a lot better in the next update! pls read them all. This is the post I don't think u read and have been pushing lol.

1. You can't just increase the APP>Life force every half a year or something, players in ascension grow too fast so it's just guess work.

100 times would have been more reasonable (would seem extreme but the rate is out by that much).
top incomes in ascention are around 500bil, top incomes in main are around 20bil.

at APP 330>1, the main player could send up 6tril (so no rounding errors) worth of stuff by ascending, assuming its at the best rates (infinite UP, with required units etc) the number of ascensions becomes irrelevant (in determining costs) which work out UP is worth exactly 2.25 times more than the rate of naq, which would be converted into 2.25*6tril/6000000=2,250,000 APP, this can be converted into 742,500,000 Life force (by multiplying by 330). to get 6 tril naq it would have taken the main player 6tril/20bil=300 turns.

742,500,000/300=2,475,000 Life force per turn

For an ascension player with 500bil a turn income, they could convert this into 500bil/10000000*1000=50mil LF per turn.

so that means a strong ascended account is worth 50mil/2.475mil=20.2 top main accounts income if you want LF in ascention, if you want dmu in ascension you would get 2,475,000/1000*1000000=2,475,000,000 which is the same as 500bil/2.475bil=202 main accounts.

Therefore i suggest to make main and ascension more in line the APP to life force ratio instead of being 330:1 is 3300 to 1. that would make ascension accounts a more reasonable 2.02 times as good as a top main account for LF and 20.2 main accounts if they want DMU!!

For an even fairer ratio the top 1% of mains incomes, that have logged in within the last 2 weeks vs the top 1% of ascension incomes to determine the APP to LF ratio, ideally 1 main account should be able to generate as much life force per turn as 1 ascended account on average but of course the top players in ascension won't like that!

2. The server NEEDS a super weapon (all the people that said yay are the people dominating the game), to one day just maybe, maybe have enough money to hit one of the top players with it. It is great for activity of smaller players because they can make some decent amounts of DMU from farming, sure it's nothing like the larger players make but hey its not bad! make it not kill any planets if you want, just destroy weapons, that'd be enough to make the top players hittable until they log in! don't worry its not like they would be raided because they'd still have covert/assassins!

3. There needs to be moving caps!! limits like 100m+ planets is no raiding, 1/2 DMU>LF conversion rate after 200m planets, quarter after 800mil planets and 2/3 up, 1/8 after 3.2bil and 1/2 UP! as a larger percentage of players are being hit by these limits, have it updated automatically. for example 0.1% of players (ie around 5 currently, rounded down) should be hit with toughest cap, 0.5% (around the top 6-25) should be hit with the next strongest cap, the top 2% of players (26-100) should be hit with the next strongest cap. If, heaven forbid, somebody catches up to another person in planets, they will be hit by the cap instead of the other guy!

It is imposable to even be comparable without caps. these caps slow the top players down but it is still almost impossible catch up to them but if they are moving caps they will make the top accounts more comparable. There should be these sort of caps in all 4 servers to encourage different strategies beyond, "i have a higher income, ur so screwed"

Limits do not mean being overtaken, they mean making peoples stats are less run away and more comparable, that's the only reason main server is considered reasonably balanced, caps are slowing people from running away with the game, but the top players are still the strongest!!

thanks,
chargin.

[Nox]

i agree with chargin

especially the caps, since u dont have a time machine jason u really should think about those "soft caps" now for this update, cause since those sort of caps exist in main (no raiding, plague) why doesnt something like that exists in ascended? it would bring a fresh gameplay for the top guys (instead of just selling dmu, or boosting friends they could actually start planning other ways to play, other strategies, they have to do it to keep growing) and that would give a chance for other players to get closer to them, like it happened in main

from all the updates, i think this would be the most important now

[TheRook]

I agree with the bi yearly updates to APP conversion

I also agree with the limits to DMU>LF costs based on armysize
but not quite as harsh an amount as 1/4, 1/2 etc

I also agree on certain armysizes lowering daily up... but again not by such as big an amount

TheRook


I'm loving this discussion thread its really nice to be able to put suggestions and help forum/jason and the SGW AScended community out

[Hensenshi]

2) what you base it on? it HAS to go up...

Don't raise the conversion rate, raise the cost after level 700 or something. Honestly raising the conversion ratio will NEVER be fair.

[High Empty]

What you did works the fleets worked fine, NOW if your set on adjusting it back to 400. or less, to a complete refund of all LF spent. EVERYWHERE. and a 72 hour ppt. Have all the LF converted into the upgrade only part. ( give out the new APP) and basicly you have reset ascension. ( just add that you can buy levels quicker then one click at a time)