changes to ascension

[Hensenshi]

OK, here is a different tack I am going to take. Forum, if you raise the APP - LF conversion rate and raise the amount of LF you get from Max LF, you do not need to lower the cost of levels below the 500/700 soft cap to make ascension competitive once again. It is already going to be pathetically easy for someone to make a half way decent ascension and get significant levels in stats.

As far as Psicolix's numbers go, I would trust him with the figures that he has come up with. The man has figured out the formulas for everyone of the ascension stats and has them in an Excel spreadsheet. I am fairly certain that his math is golden on this particular calculation. Which is another reason why I don't want to see the cost of levels lowered. It should remain the same to be fair to all. The insane increase in the APP-LF conversion rate and the increase in LF from your Max LF stat should be enough to allow the smaller accounts to grow faster. But that's just me. As far as raiding goes, I for one am ambivalent about whether it goes or stays. If it goes, my resource planets are safe from predation; if it stays, I can possibly raid someone for about 1/100th of my daily UP using 450 AT. Woohoo! Yeah! Go me!

So in the interest of perhaps pulling the two sides closer together on this update, if the costs of levels remain the same (except for the 500/700 soft cap levels) then I, for one, would be willing to accept the latest update proposed by Forum.

There's no point in me writing a nice long post when I can just quote Mojo and say "he said everything I want to say, and I agree with him 100%". So:

He said everything I want to say, and I agree with him 100%

[TheRook]

As far as raiding goes, I for one am ambivalent about whether it goes or stays. If it goes, my resource planets are safe from predation; if it stays, I can possibly raid someone for about 1/100th of my daily UP using 450 AT. Woohoo! Yeah! Go me!

yes for you its nothing... but if one of your alliance mates for example mass one of mine and your their friends strip all the millions of planets from the account then its a big something...

TheRook
p.s. this has happened a few times...

[Munchy]

Here is how I view it.


The soft caps in main made the server funner. Instead of having a tiny amount of humongous players, a few large, a few medium, and many small; It made for a few humongous, many large, a few medium, and many small. A more diverse game. With the updates, including the cheaper upgrades, it would be similar in ascension probably. The current bigger players would still hold an advantage(as those who were already large had one on main), but if they were lazy then they would fall behind(as many did), if they remained still active and 'skillful' as people like to put it, they would still remain much stronger than those before them(such as a few on main did).

As for everyone making 300 k ascensions to get top stats before they increase...70 tril main naq is not really something to be scoffed at, not to mention the uu losses and whatnot. anyone want to loan me 60 tril naq?

[Nostradamus]

Here is how I view it.
As for everyone making 300 k ascensions to get top stats before they increase...70 tril main naq is not really something to be scoffed at, not to mention the uu losses and whatnot. anyone want to loan me 60 tril naq?

It hasn't been said directly but some before have hinted it ...... it would be indeed stupid for x members of one alliance to spend 70 tril naq each and it would be very difficult as well ....... but 4-5 people all around 75 mil or more can raise 70 tril .... so who of them has the most planets/highest fleets will ascend ..... so they will have someone with stats good enough for top 10, even better then half of them ..... true it will have a big disadvantage in planets, but that's not the point ... he will be in a position to help the others grow quite fast ... trust me he will be able to get them to 2-3 mil CER with ease.

As I posted before with a 200k UP you will get top 30 stats in both charisma and production WITH CURRENT LEVEL PRICES. As a rough estimate the levels are now 15 times cheaper ..... so it's easy to see that with 1 ascension someone could get top 20 stats .... this is completly unfair for the medium accounts ... they would get better stats then people who invested a couple of times more ..... how would you feel if someone could get a 20 bil naq income in main in less then a week ????

[samson1111]

I got to page 34, I gtg now, so I'll write few of my ideas:

-> raiding(raiding only untrained planets) should stay, same as revolution:
ppl should be successfully revolted only 15 times per day, revolts would take only 2%. After a revolution, they could not be raided for 1 day

-> 1700 LF for a APP is to much, I'd base the rates on number of ascencions:
1st ascencion 1APP=100lf
2nd ascencion 1APP= 200lf
..
..
..
10th ascencion 1APP= 1kLF
11th ascencion same as 10th

--> I like the new power up prices of upgrades

-> KILL... we should find a function for it... lets say for every kill, you can make a:
- bigger damage to the defender... now its 33%... lets say for every kill you'd get 0,5% damage (since ppl will be harder to descend acordingly to to pplayers, this would allow to do more damage)
- or direct attacks would cost always less turns... for every 2 kills, 1 turn less needed to do a direct attack
- kills would count like stats in the ranking as well

-> RESURECTION... it is not used yet... I suggest something in these lines. If some1 gets to 500 charizma level, he could buy a resurection with 50 power up upgrades... meaning, he'd have 450 charizma after he bought the resurection

-> resurection could be something like this... when you get descended, you ascended account would be on a 14 days PPT and your main account would not lose the bonuses.


I gtg now, maybe I write some new ideas here, tomorow

[High Empty]

well for simple sake, can you make the APP 2000,and every 3months they increase by 500.

As for raiding whateever

power ups should say as normal besides the soft cap.

Vacation should be removed, but 2 ppt PER MONTH added, so people can go on vacation. ~ To clear that up, that means if your on vacation in main, then your auto on it in acsension and the same the other way.

PPT last 60 hours, the require lifeforce to buy, something everyone can afford, ( 30% of your total)

As per samson suggestions they are interesting, you might think of something, however people will complain that this in encouraging people to pick on small accounts.

[Munchy]

Here is how I view it.
As for everyone making 300 k ascensions to get top stats before they increase...70 tril main naq is not really something to be scoffed at, not to mention the uu losses and whatnot. anyone want to loan me 60 tril naq?

It hasn't been said directly but some before have hinted it ...... it would be indeed stupid for x members of one alliance to spend 70 tril naq each and it would be very difficult as well ....... but 4-5 people all around 75 mil or more can raise 70 tril .... so who of them has the most planets/highest fleets will ascend ..... so they will have someone with stats good enough for top 10, even better then half of them ..... true it will have a big disadvantage in planets, but that's not the point ... he will be in a position to help the others grow quite fast ... trust me he will be able to get them to 2-3 mil CER with ease.

As I posted before with a 200k UP you will get top 30 stats in both charisma and production WITH CURRENT LEVEL PRICES. As a rough estimate the levels are now 15 times cheaper ..... so it's easy to see that with 1 ascension someone could get top 20 stats .... this is completly unfair for the medium accounts ... they would get better stats then people who invested a couple of times more ..... how would you feel if someone could get a 20 bil naq income in main in less then a week ????

Hmm, it would still be a project even for 5 people, and to boost just one person. It would take the complete income of everyone for several weeks. In such a case, yes, I do think that person should be boosted a fair bit. 5 people at 75 mil army over a period of several weeks should be able to make an ascension for one of the participating members substantial. I don't see how anyone could disagree there.

As to the second part I bolded, I have seen several people in main boosted from 3 mil to 75 in very short amounts of time, with team efforts. Once again, it would takes several people, as it would on ascension.

And if you are saying it isn't fair because that person would then be able to help others grow fast..lol, sorry man, once again, that is teamwork. Not something that the ascension server was aimed to have, but you would be a fool to not think it has been used since the very start.

[High Empty]

Dead_Horse ruthlessly and relentlessly assult the worlds, fleets and populations of PURGATORY [Omega], inflicting 1 damage .
Many suffered, generations knew nothing but war, and in the end - ontop of countless populations ...
23,770 of RepliJake's worlds were completely destroyed!

might be a wee bit of a bug!

[Mato]

Admin leave powerup prices and APP rate the ways it is in test server.
Thats the only way to catch the top players (with a proper ascension strategy of course).

[Nostradamus]

@Munchy

You didn't understood my point. What's not fair is the fact that with some effort a few people could jump ahead of 100 others that worked harder .... it's not about teamwork ... hell we used teamwork with the damn sw and other projects for a long time.

With 1 ascension someone could get ahead of all the people in the server minus 5 ..... having less planets to start with he will probably get passed by 2 or 3 .... but he will start with a 13 mil CER !!! ... even from scratch he will have 160 bil income in 1 week !!!! .... it's insane if someone can in 1 giant step get a top 12 income ... please show me how is this possible in main with 20 people teamwork in 1 week ... yes you can buy enough UU to get to 75 mil, but from there you have to work on UP, on planets and it takes TIME ... you can't catch STI in a week unless you win the lottery and decide to buy all the naq from the market ... and even in that case you have to wait about 1 month.

What about the people who ascended just before this update came to life? They only got 2% of what you will get 1 week later .... how is that fair ??

In conclusion .... the power up levels must stay the same.

[Munchy]

@Munchy

You didn't understood my point. What's not fair is the fact that with some effort a few people could jump ahead of 100 others that worked harder .... it's not about teamwork ... hell we used teamwork with the damn sw and other projects for a long time.

With 1 ascension someone could get ahead of all the people in the server minus 5 ..... having less planets to start with he will probably get passed by 2 or 3 .... but he will start with a 13 mil CER !!! ... even from scratch he will have 160 bil income in 1 week !!!! .... it's insane if someone can in 1 giant step get a top 12 income ... please show me how is this possible in main with 20 people teamwork in 1 week ... yes you can buy enough UU to get to 75 mil, but from there you have to work on UP, on planets and it takes TIME ... you can't catch STI in a week unless you win the lottery and decide to buy all the naq from the market ... and even in that case you have to wait about 1 month.

True, you can't catch people in main in a week, or a month, but it is the exact same thing in ascension. You said it yourself, they won't have the planets to start with. That it itself puts them at a huge disadvantage. The same sort of disadvantage that some at 75 mil army has against someone at 150 mil army.

Also, if it is so freaking easy, and 'anyone' can do it, then what would the big difference be? The people who are ahead could match the power ascensions of the poeple attempting to catch up, and they would be that much farther ahead still, with the advantage of having more planets to begin with. I am simply stressing that people should be able to catch up. I sincerely doubt many will put in the effort to do so...or will have the connections.

Anyway, I guess I am done with this topic. If forum wants to have the server to possibly come alive again and have actual competitive wars then he will implement the updates as they are on the test server. If won't be completely fair to everyone, I will give you that, but it will bring life to a server that has had very little for most of its existance. If he doesn't want to do that, then fine. I am happy with just having miners not raidable and the increase in APP. Little actual change will happen with just that, but meh, whatever.

edit-As for the people who just ascended..I agree, it is not fair at all. But the update in APP to lifeforce has been needed for a long time.

[Nostradamus]

Even with all the numbers infront you don't want to understand.

At 500 charisma and 700 production in 1 week X will get to 100 mil planets and have 160 bil dmu / turn ... ~7.5 tril dmu / day.

Investing the income in fleets after 2 weeks he will have 200 mil planets and 320 bil dmu / turn. The CER will be ~16 mil planets/day.

After 3 weeks he will have ~310 mil planets and ~500 bil dmu income. CER will be over 20 mil planets.

In 4 weeks : 450 mil planets / 750 bil dmu income / CER close to 30 mil planets.

What about the people who can't make this huge jump as soon as the updates are on .... you can see that 1-2 weeks they will be at a huge disadvantage ... insted of having 5 people way ahead there will probably be 10, but the GAP between them and the rest will be even BIGGER then it is now .... this will surely make the server much more animated then it is now.

If the levels stay at the same level ..... after the ascension you will be at top 20 levels ... but with about 1 mil more CER then places 21-30 ... and about 40-60% higher income per planet .... so in 1 month you could be at the same level as rank 25-30 .... for 1 month worth I believe is more then enough.

Make 2-3 big ascensions and you could be in top 20 in maximum 2-3 months. It's not easy but it can be done.

As for catching the big 5 ..... if the soft caps work as admin described them it can be done .... time frame is 6 to 12 months, depending on a few variables.

[Corsair]

Even with all the numbers infront you don't want to understand.

At 500 charisma and 700 production in 1 week X will get to 100 mil planets and have 160 bil dmu / turn ... ~7.5 tril dmu / day.

Investing the income in fleets after 2 weeks he will have 200 mil planets and 320 bil dmu / turn. The CER will be ~16 mil planets/day.

After 3 weeks he will have ~310 mil planets and ~500 bil dmu income. CER will be over 20 mil planets.

In 4 weeks : 450 mil planets / 750 bil dmu income / CER close to 30 mil planets.
Personally I think your numbers are a bit off and second everyone will be doing same so this argument is irrelevant
What about the people who can't make this huge jump as soon as the updates are on .... you can see that 1-2 weeks they will be at a huge disadvantage ... insted of having 5 people way ahead there will probably be 10, but the GAP between them and the rest will be even BIGGER then it is now .... this will surely make the server much more animated then it is now.

Good it needs to be more animated as at the moment its stale and pointless hence the updates

If the levels stay at the same level ..... after the ascension you will be at top 20 levels ... but with about 1 mil more CER then places 21-30 ... and about 40-60% higher income per planet .... so in 1 month you could be at the same level as rank 25-30 .... for 1 month worth I believe is more then enough.

Not really as they will be doing the same

Make 2-3 big ascensions and you could be in top 20 in maximum 2-3 months. It's not easy but it can be done.

1 big ascension per month by your estimate. lol I would like know what you consider a big ascension

As for catching the big 5 ..... if the soft caps work as admin described them it can be done .... time frame is 6 to 12 months, depending on a few variables.

Again thats based on your figures and thats if the big guys stood still for 6-12 months and did nothing otherwise they will also have grown in that 6-12 month period so again this argument is irrelevant

[Mojo Rising]

Wow! Where the hell is the compromise that the "have nots" have been talking about. Whilst I disagree with just about every change that Forum has made to ascension thus far, I offered an olive branch, hoping to bring both sides closer. Keep power ups cost the same up to the soft cap. They don't need to be cheaper. If they are made cheaper, with one ascension, a non-ascended account can pass up 90% of the server in less than a month, including people who have PLAYED for over a year. Hardly fair. Other than that, I am giving you guys the increased APP-LF conversion rate AND the increased LF from Max LF, along with the no-raiding that you wanted. All I am asking is that you bend on the cheapening of the power ups as that would be so unfair as to unbalance the server in completely the opposite direction. People who spent a year or more in ascension will find their accounts obsolete because the money that they spent on levels is now worth 1/15th of what it could have bought had they waited to ascend. Also, if you cheapen the levels, you may as well just get rid of descension because it will be impossible, unless you are the attacker and then you will be able to descend yourself (because there is no limit to the amount of LF that the attacker can lose). As it is right now, with a halfway decent ascension, most accounts could surpass at least 60-70% of the server in most stats (at their current costs, not development server costs). I think this is more than fair. Anyone from the "other side" willing to meet me halfway? Actually less than halfway.

To those of you who are claiming that you worked at ascension but were raided so that you became ineffectual again, I say to you that for everyone of you, there are four accounts that just ascended for the bonuses and never made ANY attempt to play ascension. And they are the reason for the imbalance. Had EVERYONE played, we who are supposedly in control wouldn't have had enough turns to effectively destroy ALL of you, even if we were of a mind to, which normally (and I am speaking for myself here) we weren't. A lot of you would have been able to stay off the radar long enough (as I did) to grow to be a force to be reckoned with. You chose poorly.

[Corsair]

Lol Mojo you have had some of these updates go your way let me remind you
1. The Super Weapon has been removed Ramifications being the only thing that could hurt your account is gone.
2. No one can have insane amounts of LF out in max/reserves you now need to be on to renew your reserves from cache to avoid being descended.
3 Max growth Cap at 700 mill planets has been removed so you now have room to grow with no inhibitions except those in power up and even those shouldnt be to much of a problem with the amount of DMU you make.

So as usual you whine about updates that benefit the smaller guy but conveniently forget those that benefit you.