what have you done SGW's?

[Apollo]

Hail The Shadow King!

Some of us longer players... just get sick of the constant drama here on the forums. What was once scintillating "Stay up until 5am watching a thread get even more thrilling" is now "Read a page, sift through spam and abuse trying to find the good stuff." And that includes Mr Smiley Man.

It's the effwits that insist on carrying over ingame crap to real life threats that are responsible for this forum's circling of the drain. And I know I have said this before, but personally I pinpoint the rot setting in back when planets appeared. People are too damn possesive of items that are meant to be free-wheeling.

[Spacey]

what have you done, to make it that the whole community cannot be trusted?

what have you done, to make this place so cruel?

what have you done, to make us wonder?

what have you done, but destroy this place?

-.-Psi Kiya Trist-.-

It's really interesting to see how this thread developed from the first post onwards, and the responses that we all can see.

I have been thinking about what to say, but still haven't found the words to describe what I want to say.

For now I will say this: take a look at this entire thread and read the posts.

What are people saying?

In reading all of this I see people pointing fingers and telling each other about what the other guys/gals did:

• "to make it that the whole community cannot be trusted?",
• "to make this place so cruel?",
• "to make us wonder?",
• "but destroy this place?

However, I think the questions posed are asking you, the people who posted, what you (yourself) has done to do the above things? Perhaps it's easier to say x person did this wrong, and to claim innocence through omission?

You are innocent you say? Well then... that is more interesting that anything I've ever read here in my 2 years...

[goodie]

Insightful as always Spacey.

And so very true.

-Goodie

[Corsair]

what have you done, to make it that the whole community cannot be trusted?

what have you done, to make this place so cruel?

what have you done, to make us wonder?

what have you done, but destroy this place?

-.-Psi Kiya Trist-.-

It's really interesting to see how this thread developed from the first post onwards, and the responses that we all can see.

I have been thinking about what to say, but still haven't found the words to describe what I want to say.

For now I will say this: take a look at this entire thread and read the posts.

What are people saying?

In reading all of this I see people pointing fingers and telling each other about what the other guys/gals did:

• "to make it that the whole community cannot be trusted?",
• "to make this place so cruel?",
• "to make us wonder?",
• "but destroy this place?

However, I think the questions posed are asking you, the people who posted, what you (yourself) has done to do the above things? Perhaps it's easier to say x person did this wrong, and to claim innocence through omission?

You are innocent you say? Well then... that is more interesting that anything I've ever read here in my 2 years...

Very True Spacey but I would like to turn your points around slightly if I may. Again look at the people that have posted most are the old and the bold that do care and have moved away from the forum because of those people that have destroyed the forum. Those people that have ruined this forum wont post here because they cant brag, push out their chests and say look at me, hear me roar and spam for the sake of spamming as they are the ones that are blamed for ruining this forum. They wont ever take the responsibility for things like that. I cant comment on the community before I joined which was back in March 2006 but when I joined I was warned not to comment about the GA and generally stay away from the forum as I would just get massed on a whim by members of the GA for even the most innocuous comment. I have a decent account now but I still stick to that policy even though the GA/CoP no longer exist, in name, I have just transfered it to include everyone.

I only ever post in a thread when I feel that I should say something, like now. Not for the sake of saying something or belittling some one. So maybe it is my fault and other people like me that the forum has gone down hill as we havent taken a stand against those that have ruined it but at the end of the day those members throw tantrums when you do make a stand, your account gets massed etc because you dont follow their ideals or are not in their clique.

Apollo I agree the Planets update was one of the worst updates to come out as people are now tailoring their accounts around their planets instead of viewing them as bonuses and throw tantrums when they lose their planets and subsequent stats.

[Spacey]

Thanks goodie.

Very True Spacey but I would like to turn your points around slightly if I may. Again look at the people that have posted most are the old and the bold that do care and have moved away from the forum because of those people that have destroyed the forum. Those people that have ruined this forum wont post here because they cant brag, push out their chests and say look at me, hear me roar and spam for the sake of spamming as they are the ones that are blamed for ruining this forum. They wont ever take the responsibility for things like that. I cant comment on the community before I joined which was back in March 2006 but when I joined I was warned not to comment about the GA and generally stay away from the forum as I would just get massed on a whim by members of the GA for even the most innocuous comment. I have a decent account now but I still stick to that policy even though the GA/CoP no longer exist, in name, I have just transfered it to include everyone.

I only ever post in a thread when I feel that I should say something, like now. Not for the sake of saying something or belittling some one. So maybe it is my fault and other people like me that the forum has gone down hill as we havent taken a stand against those that have ruined it but at the end of the day those members throw tantrums when you do make a stand, your account gets massed etc because you dont follow their ideals or are not in their clique.

Apollo I agree the Planets update was one of the worst updates to come out as people are now tailoring their accounts around their planets instead of viewing them as bonuses and throw tantrums when they lose their planets and subsequent stats.

You are right: a lot of the people who have posted are the 'old and bold', but for some of them I would not go so far as to say they care. I don't know what caring means to them, but for me it doesn't include some of a few peoples actions. Perhaps it's as simple as a difference in definition, but look at where we are now... I don;t think caring brought us to this point. I would then say that some who contributed negatively have indeed posted here.

Perhaps those people that have done ill should post here? Maybe people should stand up and claim what they have wrought? Maybe they need to post here and stop hiding from what they've accomplished? It doesn't take much to point a finger and say things are bad because of everyone but yourself. What is much more difficult is to take responsibility for your own mistakes (when I say you I mean it in a generic sense... not implying you Corsair).

It's very common to see people take disputes that happen here, things they don't like, etc. in-game. Game Jason said 'forum is forum, and game is game' (implying that they are completely separate), but clearly that isn't the case. What I think more people need to realize is that it is a game (almost a cliche now). If someone wants to attack on a whim; let them. It won't change anything unless you let it.

I do agree with you though: we'll probably never see a post form some saying 'I did this wrong', or 'I should never have done this', etc.

But I digress... because we are getting into the realm of what x person did, and moving away from what we, ourselves have done. Maybe people will now post what they did:

• "to make it that the whole community cannot be trusted?",
• "to make this place so cruel?",
• "to make us wonder?",
• "but destroy this place?

[Legendary Apophis]

Apollo I agree the Planets update was one of the worst updates to come out as people are now tailoring their accounts around their planets instead of viewing them as bonuses and throw tantrums when they lose their planets and subsequent stats.

Indeed.


It'd be cool if fourm released a 2nd non-reset server that is iddentical to the current state of SGW EXECPT the following

- No ascending (or no assencion server at least). Either way, no ascending for the first six months at least. NO supporter status for the same time period, as shown by each Q wave, SS boosts people way above others when avalible too early.

- No planets

- No raiding

-No trading prehaps ? (this would cut down on quite a few players, ESPECILY those that only or primarily play for cash. Of course, people have been selling DMU for cash for a long time, so Im not sure how well this would work longterm)

- If no trading is implemented, prehaps balance the eventual release of supporter status by allowing those with SS who cant trade despite it to convert one PPT per week to a 3day PPT. Prehaps also add in some of the quantum SS bonus's such as getting a days income/UP instantly with your once a week SS bonus.

- Prehaps just dont allow the sending of ATs, as w/o raiding there would be a lower demand for them. Or prehaps repalce AT with 'military readiness' Something akin to covert turns, your attack forces have a certain level of readiness, you use them too much, they need downtime to rest and recuperate. This would make all accounts equal in the fact that no matter how powerful you are, you can only attack so many accounts at once before your armed forces need to rest and recover.

*COUGH* QUANTUM WAVE 11 *COUGH*

[Wolf359]

I see it as 2 things. The creation of the GA, this isnt a shot at them, sure it was a good idea and move for them at the time. But it inevitably would cause the huge gap and inbalance among players and alliances, which lead to tension and problems on the forum, which contributed to the servers uprising against CoP, causeing the current stagnent state of the server among the 1st page and the current cold war of the top alliances. And as such people take what they cant ingame, to the forums, find excuses to hit people not in the top alliance and try to push them into a corner to give them an excuse, if they cant find one as is.

That, and Psi leaving, he kept this forum in line.

I know what you are saying - but disagree - partly because most people don't really know what the GA was about, and any conflicts that it's members had were more often than not resolved without involving the other members. I can only think of 2 major incidents when the whole GA went to war as the GA - and both times it was against other aggressive coalitions. The same can be said of CoP.

However, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the main reason for the fall from grace of the game (and also, to a degree to the formation of GA type coalitions) is ill-perceived updates to the game which were seemingly done at the behest of a small minority of players who knew no better. Some of the updates would not have been so bad on their own, but it was the combination of a number of updates which really killed off the game and led to hate-fuelled rants in the forum.....

1. Making UU unkillable - The game was truly better (in my opinion) when UU could be killed, but some people moaned that it wasn't fair if they had spent cash to build their army only to see wiped away. Some, such as me, might say that it was their choice to spend the cash. However, the real players at the time (the3rdlibra, THE SAZ, opticallove, Lord Dougy, me, JaseB, Salvo, viperman, ELUSIVE etc, blah, blah) were forever being reduced to zero and never complained once (except in player to player or alliance to alliance bravado)!

2. Raid - was a disaster first time around - better implemented the second time, but it's negative effect came from the availability of turns on the market and the fact that UU was unkillable.

3. Market - specifically the high number of turns on it - no great problem with the market, or even the number of turns that were initially on it - the problem lays with the constant whining regarding the unavailability of turns and the cost of turns, and the subsequent capitulation of the Game Administration to provide more turns and/or change the prices.
NEWSFLASH - turns were/are meant to be a limited resource.

The list could go on, but these are what I would list as the main ones - each on their own not so bad, but when combined have led to the decline of the game from a turn based strategy game in which some thought and skill actually had to be applied to be successful, to a game in which the thought/skill required has decreased to be almost non-existant and success is more reliant on how long you are willing to spend in front of your PC participating in the monotony of buy turns - raid - buy turns - raid, buy turns - raid. This in turn has led to the increased hostility within the forum - both directly and indirectly.

I said I had said this before, and I make absolutely no apologies for saying it again because quite a lot of people predicted that this sort of thing would happen as a result of many of the updates - but were either ridiculed, told to shut up, or ignored.

A shame really!

Having said all of that - it isn't just the combination of the updates - but also how people react to them, and how they then react to other people.

It's also a shame that I wasn't around when the latest wave of Quantum was launched - is it really as old school as I've heard? If so, it may be worth a visit......

[Spoon]

Perhaps those people that have done ill should post here? Maybe people should stand up and claim what they have wrought? Maybe they need to post here and stop hiding from what they've accomplished? It doesn't take much to point a finger and say things are bad because of everyone but yourself. What is much more difficult is to take responsibility for your own mistakes (when I say you I mean it in a generic sense... not implying you Corsair).

Yeah but do all the people who we are claiming to have done "ill" actually realise what they are doing, some may well do others probably think that they arent causing any problems.

[agapooka]

I see it as 2 things. The creation of the GA, this isnt a shot at them, sure it was a good idea and move for them at the time. But it inevitably would cause the huge gap and inbalance among players and alliances, which lead to tension and problems on the forum, which contributed to the servers uprising against CoP, causeing the current stagnent state of the server among the 1st page and the current cold war of the top alliances. And as such people take what they cant ingame, to the forums, find excuses to hit people not in the top alliance and try to push them into a corner to give them an excuse, if they cant find one as is.

That, and Psi leaving, he kept this forum in line.

I know what you are saying - but disagree - partly because most people don't really know what the GA was about, and any conflicts that it's members had were more often than not resolved without involving the other members. I can only think of 2 major incidents when the whole GA went to war as the GA - and both times it was against other aggressive coalitions. The same can be said of CoP.

However, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the main reason for the fall from grace of the game (and also, to a degree to the formation of GA type coalitions) is ill-perceived updates to the game which were seemingly done at the behest of a small minority of players who knew no better. Some of the updates would not have been so bad on their own, but it was the combination of a number of updates which really killed off the game and led to hate-fuelled rants in the forum.....

1. Making UU unkillable - The game was truly better (in my opinion) when UU could be killed, but some people moaned that it wasn't fair if they had spent cash to build their army only to see wiped away. Some, such as me, might say that it was their choice to spend the cash. However, the real players at the time (the3rdlibra, THE SAZ, opticallove, Lord Dougy, me, JaseB, Salvo, viperman, ELUSIVE etc, blah, blah) were forever being reduced to zero and never complained once (except in player to player or alliance to alliance bravado)!

2. Raid - was a disaster first time around - better implemented the second time, but it's negative effect came from the availability of turns on the market and the fact that UU was unkillable.

3. Market - specifically the high number of turns on it - no great problem with the market, or even the number of turns that were initially on it - the problem lays with the constant whining regarding the unavailability of turns and the cost of turns, and the subsequent capitulation of the Game Administration to provide more turns and/or change the prices.
NEWSFLASH - turns were/are meant to be a limited resource.

The list could go on, but these are what I would list as the main ones - each on their own not so bad, but when combined have led to the decline of the game from a turn based strategy game in which some thought and skill actually had to be applied to be successful, to a game in which the thought/skill required has decreased to be almost non-existant and success is more reliant on how long you are willing to spend in front of your PC participating in the monotony of buy turns - raid - buy turns - raid, buy turns - raid. This in turn has led to the increased hostility within the forum - both directly and indirectly.

I said I had said this before, and I make absolutely no apologies for saying it again because quite a lot of people predicted that this sort of thing would happen as a result of many of the updates - but were either ridiculed, told to shut up, or ignored.

A shame really!

Having said all of that - it isn't just the combination of the updates - but also how people react to them, and how they then react to other people.

It's also a shame that I wasn't around when the latest wave of Quantum was launched - is it really as old school as I've heard? If so, it may be worth a visit......

Hear, hear! Beyond the first moments of admiring a shiny new page in base.php, nothing positive really came of it, and I am just so overwhelmed by the truth in your post that I'm gonna quote it so people have a chance to read it a second time.

[Q Man]

i've been wandering around these forums the ast day or to and i am quite annoyed at what i have read.......its all bad.....its all very bad and i wish the old days where back,where it was easy to get into the top 1000 and a mothership was new and shiny! now the game is going downhill faster than a duck in a pond! i am even more upset at this forum! many of the older people have left or changed and i hate most of these new people who act like they own the forum! i remember when you had to earn a name for yourself! now it seems you can buy one! i don't know wether i should come back any more!! if i where to be comin back it would be part time but i find this place in a shambles and i would rater be stuck in a room with some of the most annoying spammers that were around before than stay on these forums!

[Ash]

I know ONE update that would fix the game quite a bit, even if it would drive SOME people from it.

MAKE ATS UNTRADABLE.

Thats all it'd take.

no AT trading, and raise the AT generation cap to 5k, 6k prehaps.

Im sorry but isn't that sort of what purg is, a duller version of main where you slowly collect enough turns to attack with,

You cant trade turns, and you build them up slowly and apparently its a nice farming ground too.

[Amon]

Everyone keeps going on about how good things were 2 years ago and how bad they are now...

Why not just reset the server back to 2 years ago

[Lord_Zeus]

Good post there wolf, I think I agree with everything there except mabye the killing uu part... although I came in just after that update was bought in. (Can't remember having them killable anyway) Sort of in tok'ras opinion there, it lends itself to the strong players a bit. (Although they would get wiped occasionally and main isnt exponential as ascended is)

Imo the raid feature as it was implemented the second time didnt hurt the game a great deal, but when more turns were put on the market it did... turned into a massive clickfest. Sure you can compete with other players not being a clickmonkey, (Not saying anything wrong with people who want to work on their account etc) but it makes it does make it difficult.

These updates I think could not be turned back... (As much as I would like it, there would be too much complaining) Although this does place a lot of the blame on the updates... The community is by no means excused, people don't have to flame, spam and make asses of themselves. (Pretty sure I've done all three at one point or another... )

[Amon]

Good post there wolf, I think I agree with everything there except mabye the killing uu part... although I came in just after that update was bought in. (Can't remember having them killable anyway) Sort of in tok'ras opinion there, it lends itself to the strong players a bit. (Although they would get wiped occasionally and main isnt exponential as ascended is)

Imo the raid feature as it was implemented the second time didnt hurt the game a great deal, but when more turns were put on the market it did... turned into a massive clickfest. Sure you can compete with other players not being a clickmonkey, (Not saying anything wrong with people who want to work on their account etc) but it makes it does make it difficult.

These updates I think could not be turned back... (As much as I would like it, there would be too much complaining) Although this does place a lot of the blame on the updates... The community is by no means excused, people don't have to flame, spam and make asses of themselves. (Pretty sure I've done all three at one point or another... )

Let them complain, it'd only be the same people over again the ones who stand to lose $$ fleecing people in the game, reset the server to two years ago and maybe unemployment will be less cause these bums will then have to get a job

[Spacey]

Yeah but do all the people who we are claiming to have done "ill" actually realise what they are doing, some may well do others probably think that they arent causing any problems.

You have a good and valid point, but where are the people who realize they have harmed? Right now we're talking about game updates/changes... Perhaps everyone who has posted, has read this, etc. don't think they've done anything?

I'm trying to word my future post in my head right now.