Christians Central

[Fear Of The Duck]

welcome back!

First to go way back to page 4, the question of what is Sin was raised in regards to the issue of sin of thought in contrast to action. Well, simply put the definition of sin is to fall short of the mark and in the Christian world view the mark is Christ who was and is perfect, this make sthe dfinition very clear that sin is not an issue of degrees or even strictly morality it is an issue of failure to reach perfection.

so this means one can sin WITHOUT actually doing any harm, right?

[TheWay]

Well thats the thing, its isnt an issue of harm inregards to man, but rather the harm in regards to our relationship with a perfect God. Our imperfection is in a sense offensive to the very existance of God. Now let me explain God loves us so i am not saying we as his creation are offensive but rather are actions thoughts and sin overall. That is why he sent Christ to die for our sins and live in place of us a s a perfect representation. Now when God looks at a believer he no longer sees his imperfection he sees Christ imputed righteousness that is he sees the perfect life Christ lived. So if you except this gift you are brought back into right relationship with God. Also the reason a beliver struggles not to sin is no longer to foolow a law or to meet a standard but simply because as Christ grows in us he chnages our very nature to be more like him, so as we grow we deisre sin less and the things of God more. Let me also say Christians do still sin and we struggle like everyone else but as we are sanctified by Christ we are made to desire the things of God.

I hope that sums it up lol

And thanks for the welcome back it is nice to be back

[Mojo Rising]

OK, hello everyone. First time poster to this thread so I had a lot to catch up on. I am a Christian. I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I believe that the God who made creation also made the laws of science that "govern" His creation. For those of us who believe in God, we refer to him as "Father" and He refers to us as His children. Some of you have asked "Why doesn't God answer prayers? If He loves us, why doesn't He give us what we ask for?" Well, I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that the majority of you had parents growing up. I am also going to assume that at some point or other during your formative years, you asked your parents for something (a pony, a bike, a car, a cool video game, etc.) and they said "no". You may not have understood at the time why they didn't give it to you and you may have even felt, at the time, that they didn't love you. But that's not the case. They still loved you but they knew better than you what you needed (or didn't need) at that time. If you are like me, later on in life, you came to realize that fact. So then how much more difficult is it to believe that Our Father in Heaven does answer all prayers? He does; sometimes the answer is "no". Does that mean He doesn't love you? No. He loved you so much that He sent His only Son, who was absolutely blameless, to live amongst you and to die for not only your sins and my sins but the sins of the ENTIRE world. You also ask how God could let suffering and bad things happen to His people. Well, when you disobeyed your parents, they punished you (spankings, groundings, washing your mouth out with soap, etc.). When we sin, we are disobeying our Father in Heaven and he punishes us. That is suffering. It does not mean He doesn't love us, just like it doesn't mean that our parents didn't love us when they were meting out punishment to us. They were just trying to make us better individuals. God does the same thing, in His way.

Now, some of you may not have known your parents or not had parents like mine but I think you still might be able to see the analogy that I am making here. BTW, I asked for all four of the things that I mentioned from my parents and each time they said no. I refer you to this scripture and then relate to you a story. First the scripture:

“I will bring (them)...through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The LORD is my God’”
Zechariah 13:9

I want to draw your attention to the second line. There is a reason for why God chose this particular analogy. And you have to understand how silver is refined to know why. A friend of mine went to a silversmith and saw him holding some silver over an open flame, he was refining it (burning the impurities out of it). Every now and again, he would take the silver off the flame, look at it, and put it back over the flame. Finally my friend asked the question: "How do you know when the silver is refined?" The silversmith said, "That's easy! When I can see myself in the silver!"

God sometimes leaves us over the fire so that eventually He can see Himself in us. And some of us (and I count myself amongst them) need more fire than others. But He does it to bring us closer to Him. Suffering is a natural extension of sin. We are all sinners. I am a sinner. I try to do good but I know that I can never measure up to the benchmark: Jesus. Fortunately, I don't have to, because (and I think this phrase goes to show how great His love is for us), WHILE WE WERE STILL SINNERS, Christ died for our sins.

I hope this answers some questions for some of the people. I am sure it will spawn other questions. Have a wonderful day!

[Fear Of The Duck]

^^^^ "the best post of the month" prise awarded!

Well, when you disobeyed your parents, they punished you (spankings, groundings, washing your mouth out with soap, etc.).

???? never had this one

“I will bring (them)...through the fire,
Refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
And they will say, ‘The LORD is my God’”
Zechariah 13:9

good point.

[TheWay]

Great post Mojo, I am glad to see people posting here again

[Come_Forth]

I might as well post since all the cool kids are doing it I have discussed this with Xeno awhile ago, but I don't think the problem has been solved. When God killed David's baby because of his sin. Why is that any different than abortion?

[Mojo Rising]

I might as well post since all the cool kids are doing it I have discussed this with Xeno awhile ago, but I don't think the problem has been solved. When God killed David's baby because of his sin. Why is that any different than abortion?

I will direct you to this link and then I will add my two cents' worth. First the link:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3400

The link discusses a number of topics, amongst them, the death of David's son. It explains the situation far better than I ever could.

However, your question was more specifically phrased as to how this is different than abortion. Well you guys certainly know how to throw out the hand grenades, don't you? Let me just say this: to someone who doesn't know God and/or have a personal relationship with His Son, Jesus Christ, I imagine that it is difficult to see how this is different than abortion. How come God can kill innocent children and we can't? I am just rephrasing your question to get to what I believe is the salient point of the question. I cannot even begin to HOPE to know the mind of God. I can only tell you what I believe in my heart, and what I have learned in my walk of faith. You may take that for what it is worth. Abortion is an act committed by the mother of an unborn child. She is killing her own child, for reasons that are based in the worldly realm, not the heavenly realm. When God takes a child, it is for reasons based in the heavenly realm. I believe that that is the fundamental difference. Of course, this is just my belief, and presupposes a belief in Heaven, the concept of an immortal soul, and the concept of a perfect, all-knowing, all-loving God.

[Mojo Rising]

^^^^ "the best post of the month" prise awarded!

Well, when you disobeyed your parents, they punished you (spankings, groundings, washing your mouth out with soap, etc.).

???? never had this one

Well if you have never had this one happen, consider yourself lucky. And watch the movie A Christmas Story to see hilarious takes on this form of punishment. Soap does not taste good and it is a definite deterrent to swearing.

[Come_Forth]

Lol that movie rocks My grandma put soap in my mouth once for saying sob when I was 8 or 9.

I am against most abortions myself and consider myself somewhat of a pacifist. The New Testament does not really make me angry, there is hell and all but that can be interpreted different ways than fire and brimstone. Plus the New Testament has witty Jesus who is always spinning questions to make his attackers look like morons

The Old Testament is a different story for me all of my problems with Christianity start there, from the original sin issue to the flood and all the people God and the Jews destroyed. I could keep pulling examples out of the OT and I am sure some smart people have given intelligent answers, but it seems like nothing more than rationalizations to cover up God's anger problems. I guess it just comes down to having faith or not, it would be nice if I could believe since the rest of my family members are Christians. A good example of the faith or evidence thing is star light, the stars are millions of light years away yet conservative Christians claim that the universe is only 6k years old. They have a good explanation with "apparent age" but the heart of the issue is what you want to put your trust in.

[Mojo Rising]

Lol that movie rocks My grandma put soap in my mouth once for saying sob when I was 8 or 9.

I am against most abortions myself and consider myself somewhat of a pacifist. The New Testament does not really make me angry, there is hell and all but that can be interpreted different ways than fire and brimstone. Plus the New Testament has witty Jesus who is always spinning questions to make his attackers look like morons

The Old Testament is a different story for me all of my problems with Christianity start there, from the original sin issue to the flood and all the people God and the Jews destroyed. I could keep pulling examples out of the OT and I am sure some smart people have given intelligent answers, but it seems like nothing more than rationalizations to cover up God's anger problems. I guess it just comes down to having faith or not, it would be nice if I could believe since the rest of my family members are Christians. A good example of the faith or evidence thing is star light, the stars are millions of light years away yet conservative Christians claim that the universe is only 6k years old. They have a good explanation with "apparent age" but the heart of the issue is what you want to put your trust in.

Come_Forth,

Before I answer your question, I would like to find out exactly what it is that you do believe in and why. It sounds very much to me that you do believe that there is a God and that He created the universe. Where your problem lies is reconciling that with what science tells you about the universe, the Earth itself, and life in general. Am I right? If not, by all means correct me. I want to have as much information as possible before I attempt to answer your question.

[Turkey]

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

(Deuteronomy 20:10-18)


When you come across a city you wish to fight, offer peace to them first.

If they accept peace, they will be your slaves.

If they reject peace, war will be declared and the city will be taken.

When "God" gives it to you, kill every man.

You shall have sex with the women, claim the children, and vulture off anything and everything the city has to offer.

Do this to many cities.

Of the cities that "God" leaves to you, you shall murder everyone in it and completly and utterly destroy everything, as "The Lord God" has instructed you to do so.


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Hmm, me thinks God would of been good at SGW. He seems to make a habbit of ordering his worshipers to utterly destroy other civilisations, vulture on anything they can and make sexy time with the women.

How anyone can worship such a being is beyond me.

[Turkey]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I respect Christianity believe it or not. It is up to the people what they believe. I just think all religions are evil and have very strong views against all of them

[Fear Of The Duck]

well... turkey has found the goa'uld side of God and i have problems with thess parts myself. sometimes it makes me think the OT is the most anty-jewish book ever written (try to read it like a normal book).
so: does someone have some answers to this?

regarding abortions: read the short story "prepersons" by phillip k. **Filtered**.

[Turkey]

well... turkey has found the goa'uld side of God and i have problems with thess parts myself. sometimes it makes me think the OT is the most anty-jewish book ever written (try to read it like a normal book).
so: does someone have some answers to this?

regarding abortions: read the short story "prepersons" by phillip k. **Filtered**.

lol I did read it like a normal book, and I'm not exagerating when I say it took me years to read/study...only to forget most of it once I finished

When it comes to abortions, well I don't really have much of an opinion of on them, I think other things God apparently did are far worse tbh.

[Come_Forth]

Come_Forth,

Before I answer your question, I would like to find out exactly what it is that you do believe in and why. It sounds very much to me that you do believe that there is a God and that He created the universe. Where your problem lies is reconciling that with what science tells you about the universe, the Earth itself, and life in general. Am I right? If not, by all means correct me. I want to have as much information as possible before I attempt to answer your question.

I am an unbeliever, I do not believe in the supernatural. I do not think that all religion is evil because it keeps many people from doing wrong things. I know a lot about the Bible, and could bring up other examples but this is a Christian thread, and I want to show that all atheists are not demonic people I know that I cannot prove that God does not exist just like you cannot prove that Thor does not exist. In some ways we are all atheists some of us just take it one God further. I stole that line from Richard Dawkins.