Joe Horn: Hero or Villain

[semper]

(they're different..they have pictures..video's, soldiers admitting what USA and UK troops have done..besides, dosent nullify my latter and most important points..)

[Angnoch]

I wasn't disputing your points I was just stating a fact that you seemed to lack. I too have spoken with US Army soldiers including my uncle who served for 23 years, a few people I went to school with who are still there, and my recruiter who pointed out that he served two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan and they all say the same thing **Filtered** happens every where but in the war we have only lost around 4k soldiers total and that is over a 5 almost 6 year period which is less than the average amount of murders in the US each year.




BACK TO THE ARGUEMENT


Jack life is the most precious thing on this planet and taking away that life is a crime from which there is no return. Jack do you believe in God because if you do then you are a total hypocrit by saying killing is justified in this case. What are the ten commandments? If you are not religious then what are the LAWS regarding murder? He went out there with the intent to stop them by whatever means necessary otherwise he would have shot at their feet which would have incapacitated them for the cops to arrive. How long after did the police arrive Jack would they have gotten there before the robbers got away?

[Apadizamek]

because what is the point of living in a civilized and moral world with laws when you can just go around kill people.

You just said it, someone stuck a gun to my head and ordered me to give my wallet over. He's not part of civilized society, I a generous with my money, i donate to charity, put my change in the little box's at subway and the gas station.

But anyone who needs to STEAL money is scum in my eyes.

[Angnoch]

yes but stooping to their level cuts you out of that very same society you proscribe to belong to. If you do not follow the rules then you like the criminal who accosts you are no longer a part of that society but you will still be judged by the same rules of conduct.

[Fear Of The Duck]

could a mod separate the iraq stuff please?

Until YOU have spent a year on the edge, maybe addicted where you cant help yourself or even so poor you have to steal for a living to feed a family then tell me your beliefs, until then, take your clear BS beliefs and shove them so far up your silly texan ass that you do become that desperate for food, try to steal things for the money/nutrient relief and get shot and killed in the process.

i remember that day when i had only E1.60 on me, no job and no place to live. still i din't have to steal, i didn't even had to beg for money. if ya have to ye're a sissy and looser.

The ten commandments says "Thou shalt not murder"

just came across interpretation of this:

"You shall not kill." (contextually the word kill refers to murder – taking the life of an innocent person, that is, one not guilty of a crime which morally warrants a sentence of death, or is in the proximate act of perpetrating a crime against life, limb, or of property having significant value. NOTE: The possibility exists that such action may be acceptable immediately following an act to recover property of significant value, or, if there is reasonable expectation that human injury or loss of life may be perpetrated in the future by the offender. – Civil law commonly opposes some of the foregoing even though it generally approves of the murder of preborn human beings by the millions.) [Exodus 20:13]
source: http://www.trosch.org/bra/jdg-kill.html

[Angnoch]

if we live in a civilized and moral society than by definition I am not the only one with morals get back on topic and stop arguing fallaciously or I will start throwing all sorts of crap around proving how wrong you are despite lack of knowledge.


So in your opinion he did not murder those two men?

mur·der (mûrdr)
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock1.
v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v.tr.
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang To defeat decisively; trounce.

Jack stop throwing around Texas laws as though they pertain to every person in the world you asked our opinions and given OUR laws and OUR morals and OUR knowledge and OUR beliefs we have given them time and time again. This man could have done many other things and answer my question. How long after the fact did the police arrive?

[Fear Of The Duck]

I've also been in like situations and whole heartedly agree with this statement, nicely said Corran.

tnx

Indeed, people forget that there is far more to the bible then just a few lines of scripture

cos they don't read the Bible and if they do they don't think. well... mostly they just don't think.

[Angnoch]

The ten commandments says "Thou shalt not murder"

just came across interpretation of this:

"You shall not kill." (contextually the word kill refers to murder – taking the life of an innocent person, that is, one not guilty of a crime which morally warrants a sentence of death, or is in the proximate act of perpetrating a crime against life, limb, or of property having significant value. NOTE: The possibility exists that such action may be acceptable immediately following an act to recover property of significant value, or, if there is reasonable expectation that human injury or loss of life may be perpetrated in the future by the offender. – Civil law commonly opposes some of the foregoing even though it generally approves of the murder of preborn human beings by the millions.) [Exodus 20:13]
source: http://www.trosch.org/bra/jdg-kill.html

Indeed, people forget that there is far more to the bible then just a few lines of scripture

Indeed some only read what bolsters their arguement. Last time I checked theft did not warrant the death sentence even in Texas. Furthermore the people were in no danger physically due to no one being home and since no material possession is worth your life then there was no need to shoot them.


HOW LONG AFTER DID THE POLICE ARRIVE DOCUMENTED

[Fear Of The Duck]

"You shall not kill." (contextually the word kill refers to murder – taking the life of an innocent person, that is, one not guilty of a crime which morally warrants a sentence of death, or is in the proximate act of perpetrating a crime against life, limb, or of property having significant value. NOTE: The possibility exists that such action may be acceptable immediately following an act to recover property of significant value, or, if there is reasonable expectation that human injury or loss of life may be perpetrated in the future by the offender. – Civil law commonly opposes some of the foregoing even though it generally approves of the murder of preborn human beings by the millions.) [Exodus 20:13]
source: http://www.trosch.org/bra/jdg-kill.html

read it all at least.

[Angnoch]

I did read it all, I was pointing out something that Jack seemed to miss

[Fear Of The Duck]

yet still.. ya missed something as well..

[Angnoch]

I missed nothing





WHAT TIME DID THE POLICE ARRIVE

he did his duty by calling them anything after that was redundant and dangerous now two people are dead because one man took justice into his own hands and failed miserably

[Angnoch]

and as I have said Joe Horn did his duty in calling them everything after that was foolhardy. Him shooting them was not necessary and therefore was not a protected death therefore it is murder. I would call him a hero if he had called the police and made sure to watch everything that happened but if he had done that then this thread would not exist because a true hero would not need recognition or someone to defend his actions. Jack what is the percentage of law-abiding citizens to criminals? The 2002 violent crime rate of 416.5 per 100,000 inhabitants.

[Spacey]

Personally, I'd say that only a coward runs from a threat. Texans are bred to stand up and fight. It's a natural reaction to run out and confront what threatens you. It's more natural then running and hiding, look at animals. When you threaten them they don't automatically run and hide, they stand their ground and fight if at all possible, and only run away What if his neighbors were home? What then?

Actually, animals fight as a last resort. A species that fights first and runs second will be selected against by natural selection. That species is doomed to fail.

You do not "subscribe" to the "ideology" that money is time? You mean you don't believe in hard work and effort to make money? Well, whether or not you believe in it, people still work very hard for the things they own. Thus time is money, it's not a simple ideology, but fact. When you work for someone, you're trading a part of your time, for their money, or whatever they're paying you with. Lost money is lost time, that's a fact. Only thing is, is that how much time is lost doesn't depend on a dollar value, but what had to go into getting that dollar.


As I've said, the true value of a dollar is not what you get out of it, but what you put in it. Meaning what you have to do to get it. What's a hundred dollars to you? May not be much to you, but to an honest hard working man that could be ten hours of his life. To a family trying to make ends meet that could be next week's groceries, the rent, the electric bill etc. The value is of a dollar is dynamic and dependent directly upon who's hand it's in. Again, you may not see a hundred dollars as much, but to a starving college student, it'll feed em for months if they're smart enough.

If I meant that I don't believe in hard work and effort to make money, I would have said that. To me, time is worth much more than money.

It'd be more like Texas with less crime. And breaking into someone's house is not a simple act of wrong doing, it's a high crime committed against you. Ever had your home broken into? I'm going to assume not. When your home is broken into, whether you're there or not, you lose that special sense of security, you know how you feel safe(er) at home? Well, not anymore that had just been raped. No longer is it a safe haven, people waltz up into it whenever they feel like it. What little sense of security or safety you may have felt before, is forever gone now. No one has a right to take that away, back in the day, that alone would make these men the scum of the earth. Though in today's society we have forgotten how to defend ourselves, and have learned to fear our own shadow, so the idea of your home being a safe place is perhaps all but forgotten to most of those out there.

I am aware of the effect of crime on people. Perpetrators and victims.

They suspects were found with a bag full of money, which they had stolen from the neighbor's house, your logic fails as there is no investigation as to what they were doing, that's been settled

Don't believe everything you hear or read. I'm not saying that anyone is innocent or guilty. I'm saying they were not convicted.

You mean besides Mr Horn and the undercover cops that were spectating the whole time? No one to my knowledge

I missed reading that. Where did it say that undercover police were watching it happen?

[mondomadmun]

Villian.

I am disgusted to think anyone could value a life over material possessions, no matter how corrupt the life may be.

I will make sure never to go to Texas.