Please Read: personal announcement

[Juliette]

First of all, I would like to extend my gratitude to everyone who has forgiven me for this incident in the past, to everyone who has forgiven me because of this post (I understand your use of PMs) and to thank everyone in general for remaining cool and polite. It is much appreciated.
Allow me to address a few points, raised in the course of this thread.

Elledan....Auriel.... what ever you want to be called... Why do you think you deserved a moderator position? To improve the forums? To gain respect? Well lets cover the first one first. Yes anyone could possibly improve the forums as a moderator, so that isn't in question. But to gain respect? As long as someone knew you were Elledan, you had to hide in fear that someone would reveal it. You had already lost almost all of the respect the community had for you and this isn't a way to get it back.

Dear, could you please stop interpreting my actions and filling in the uncountable number of blanks you see? It tends to produce and strengthen misconceptions.
If you have a question, ask me, but don't fill in what you think I think. Not saying I haven't done that myself, I am just saying what I think would be best.

I did not seek to gain respect from the community by becoming a moderator.
Sigh... have you looked upon the 'respect' the Community gives the Team? I hate to say it, but almost each and every one that opens their mouth about the Team, continues to badmouth them. How many of you have ever complimented a mod on a deed well done? A ban well placed, warning due given? I am just asking, because I don't see how becoming a moderator would bring me more respect than being the alliance leader of one of the stronger upcoming alliances did? Meh... must be my twisted sense of what is respect and what is not.

Contrary to popular belief, I didn't actively hide my identity. Yes, I made one post suggestively misdirecting possible suspicions, here: ./viewtopic.php?f=123&t=94559
And before anyone knew of my return, I did directly oppose DDE Marshalls notion of me being Elladan.
Other than that, I have made my identity known to everyone I had more than superficial dealings with. Ergo, your arguments of me seeking respect is void, as is the underlying argument of me hiding my identity.
As I suggested, never reason from a flawed assumption.

Moderators should be people we can look up to, and with Elledan having being one.... man quality of the moderators has gone down drastically.

How is that? If you mean to say the moderator application process needs refining, I agree. My application came in late and got through without a job interview, during which said notion would have become known and a well-thought out decision could have been made on the administrators part.
There is no flaw in the Team, or it must be that smooshable is too kind.

And mods, please don't say "We didn't know". Here is a simple solution. You go in to the IP section. You look up Auriel's. You then compare it to any else IPs (simple enough to do). You find Elledan's name in there.... You then make the connection. Wait Auriel is Elledan... simple as that...

I would love to see the results of that... I moved houses in the meantime. If all is well, there should be no IP record matching.
When smooshable says he didn't know, he is speaking the full truth. All he could have known was the rumour going around. Then again, rumours... rumours have made me be Psi before (oh, I never denied that to the one propagating it), and Tok'ra, and Roger knows what/who else.

So please don't hide behind the "we didn't know" ploy. From now on I suggest you definitely do IP checks on ANY one who applies. Hell who knows, you could be hiring a Caprica...

I was under the impression this is common practice when someone is either selected as possible moderator material, or when applying.

Finally Elledan... didn't you go as far as to multi to try and keep your "ploy" going when you were 'sick'?

You could have a good point here... please continue? What was your point exactly?
If it is "Oh why aren't you banned", I was unbanned by site and game admin, thus voiding the argument.
If it is "Being 'sick' you cannot come up with the idea of a multi", I would like to argue I wasn't mentally disabled, merely existing in a false sense of reality.
I definitely would like to know what you meant to say by this, though.

anyway auriel can apply for a mod position in a few months time it's no big deal spending a few months as a model citizen

Not a problem. I do believe that, aside from what this entire thread is all about, my OTHER behaviour has been no less than decent, to good.
So yea... I will wait, and not whilst being away from the forums.

OMG i cant even believe the admins considered this, what a total joke, you should be banned from this game and forums for life after the stunt you pulled, anyone who gives you forgiveness needs there head read big time, you are a total disgrace to this community, and i know others agree but they may not speak up because they may receive a warning for it.

Sigh... if you want to get into an argument concerning the question what is the better of two evils for the general atmosphere of a community; 'Deception followed by Forgiveness' or 'Unyielding Hatred', I suggest you consider what you are getting yourself into.
It would bring me great pleasure to see such a discussion take place, as I am convinced and supported in the idea that a tone of forgiveness goes a longer way towards restoring hospitality and friendship on these forums, than random bouts of hatred uttered whenever a red cloth can be seen somewhere in the crowds.

Who would have thought these forums could have sunk any lower.

Ha what a joke.

I will go out on a limb and assume you actually achieved sarcasm there. Well done. Next time, use it in a situation where it actually cuts an edge.

Now you can get to read the post you started and made the entire community think you where ill in the mod section where im sure it was moved too, im sure that will make you happy and warm inside.

Another common misconception... one that I am tired of voiding again and again to people that do not listen. I am dearly thankful for those who do listen, and whether understanding it or not, forgive.

Just as I forgive you your shortcomings, GC.


Might I suggest a timeout? I will only be online a few hours a day next week. Whenever I regain complete net access, we can continue our polite interchange of ideas and concepts.


I also thank my friends for standing by me, it means a lot to me.

[Lore]

Elladan, you know full well you will be hunted and pursicuted from now on for what you did. It was one of the single most horrible act I have ever seen on these forums. That said, I don't have a problem giving you a chance to prove yourself. My personal problem with you was not the fact you became a mod. I told you I like the way you carry yourself. You remain cool under fire. You speak well and convey the meaning of your post wonderfully. I personally feel you could be a great mod,,,,,if you remain sane. That is not a stab at you but more a question. What caused your illness? Is it ongoing? Is it possible to come back? Do you take meds for it? Guess my point is,,,How do we know you won't get sick again? With the powers you were granted you could have done major damage to these forums. You could have erased all the history of every section you had power over. Now I'm not saying you would, not at all. I hope you see my point. Its not you(As in the state your in now) I question, its Elladan(The state you may become and once were) that bothers me.

Also, I'll say it like this. You claim you did not "LIE" on your application. Others say you did "LIE". Well you are both right. While you did not directly tell a bold faced lie, you did pourposly omitt something that you knew would have made a difference. Then you did tell a direct lie about the Marshall incident. Now it is possible you just forgot but,,,,. I think everyone needs to know that. I commend your freinds for standing up for you, but if they can't understand the hurt, hard feelings, and distrust that came from what you did, then I'm willing to bet they are following you blindly. There is a difference in knowing and accepting, and blind faith.

For me personally it would have been much easier to deal with if it had been on your application. Then when you got the job why did you not immediately disclose it? I do see and understand your claim of expecting an "Interveiw". It is a valid point and one I would have backed you on,,,,if not for the fact that even after being awarded the job you still remained silent until you were called out on it. At this time you stated" that everyone that ever asked you if you were elladan got a yes" Then when questioned about Marshall you said "Everyone but him". You know how that looks?


@ all of Elladans friends and beleivers. If you truely know what she did, I mean truely as in go resarch the topic and see with your own eyes not word of mouth from someone involved, then i appluade you for your ability to forgive. I myself could intime forgive her. All I want to see is a complete admittance, followed by complete honesty, and finished with a true honest attempt to regain what she lost. I have not seen this as of yet.

@ general forum users We the mod team did not know, Beleive it or not, it makes no matter. Should we have screened better, obviously yes. After all the "Stuff" we been throught recently I would hope you would know we don't want any more controversy. We want to get back on level ground with everyone.


If you did change adresses, and therefore IP's why did you not leave the Elladan fiasco behind?

Everyone deserves second chances in my opinion.

***Edit***
I write this as a forum user as its my opinion, not as a mod even though I make reference to mod issues.

[Lord_Zeus]

Nice post Scooby.

Interesting read.

I think everyones a little insane, its just how well you can hide it.

[Dralan]

I must applaud Lore for his post. It is well thought through and well written.

Even though I find myself nodding and agreeing to several principles in your post my personal opinion is that as long as there is even a slight chance that "elladan" ( as in the "sicness") may return in any shape or form there should under NO circumstance be given a second chance at a modship no matter how well one behaves on the forum over any given time.

If the "elladan" should ever return the damage could be beyond repair and as such any chance at all, is a chance to many no matter how ones behaviour is changed presently.

I know my opinion is harch and unyelding but I believe that the mods should be the most trusted and skilled users of any given forum and have a higher standard of behaviour than the average user at any time to gain the respect and obedience that they in that case would rightly deserve.

And I will never ever activly support anyone who falls below that standard as a mod. As such by previous behaviour alone I would unfortunatly for you, never be able to support you as a mod Auriel.

[Legendary Apophis]

@ all of Elladans friends and beleivers. If you truely know what she did, I mean truely as in go resarch the topic and see with your own eyes not word of mouth from someone involved, then i appluade you for your ability to forgive. I myself could intime forgive her. All I want to see is a complete admittance, followed by complete honesty, and finished with a true honest attempt to regain what she lost. I have not seen this as of yet.

I know the whole issue and vision/explanations from all sides.

i read up to existing in a false sense of reality...

You consistantly use the fact your were INSANE, to cover your ass in this. That is unacceptable.

Believe me I know what insaneness is, by experience, and it's not as easy to describe it as you do! Things are never so easy or otherwise human's psychology wouldn't be a secret to anyone...

[FreeSpirit]

@ all of Elladans friends and beleivers. If you truely know what she did, I mean truely as in go resarch the topic and see with your own eyes not word of mouth from someone involved, then i appluade you for your ability to forgive. I myself could intime forgive her. All I want to see is a complete admittance, followed by complete honesty, and finished with a true honest attempt to regain what she lost. I have not seen this as of yet.

First of Lore good post i saw the topic when it was creeated and i followed it. I know all stories of all sides and yes i was able to forgive her

[RobinInDaHood]

With your humble indulgence, I'd like to open the dialog a little further as I'm genuinely (if not morbidly) curious...

Mental illness is a serious reality for a lot of people and those that suffer from it have every bit as much sympathy and support from me as those that battle physical ailments of all kinds. However, mental illness is also commonly used as an excuse and defense when facing criminal charges in an attempt to buy down the severity of the punishment, probably due in part to the fact that even now, mental illness isn't well understood and to some degree, can be faked. Granted, what you did isn't "criminal" but deceit or pathological lying are fundamental character flaws that few people would easily shrug off without monumental effort. Real change takes time, effort, and a driving desire to change behavior. You've already faked one life-threatening illness (for some reason that still escapes me), why not a second?

I guess what is so surprising to me is why you'd want to be here at all. While my own personal feelings don't run as deeply on this issue, there are many here who will hound you, belittle and bash you, prevent you from growing in the game, destroy the accounts of your friends and supporters, and do all they can to make your life unpleasant. Not a particularly "mature" response perhaps but a reality nonetheless.

For myself, if I had made some heinous judgment call that ultimately resulted in public humiliation such as you endured, I wouldn't be so quick to jump back into the fray. Why would you want to be here?

[*~Starry~*]

I forgive you Elladen/Auriel.
I won't like you, but I'll forgive you.

I prayed for you, every day, while you were "sick". It's more than just something you can blow off as a sickness.

But I admit, we all have issues. And I'll try my best to accept yours.
And more than just the sickness. You lied on MSN. You lied about a lot of other things. If it's any disease you have, it's being a chronic liar.

But I understand that you are under a lot of pressure. And the only way you can get attention is through SGW forums. You don't want people to hate you, so you make up lies. I have lied about grades to my parents {gah! I'm sure all of you have too!}, but that was when I was young. Since then, I have learned to take responsibility for my actions.

You asked for a second chance, but you already got it. This must be your tenth chance. But second or tenth chances aren't gotten by asking for them. It's by showing that you can take responsibility for your actions. That you have changed. Don't think it's the community's fault for anything. SGW community is as great a community as any. We have given second chances to many people. Esker, you, AGA etc. maybe we're tired of second, third, fourth chances.

In life, you are only given one chance. It's no different online. But before asking for second or tenth chances, think about your first chance. Is it over yet? It's never the end. Come back as elladen. Ignore the people who give you trouble. Be kind and courteous and honest. You will gain trust and people who believe you.

Then again, Try talking to your psychologist about this. Ask him first, is it healthy for you to continue to post here and play this game? Ask him, then, is it healthy for the rest of the community?

Good luck on your stay.

All people are good people, they do things for a reason. So therefore you are a good person too. Just let your good qualities shine through ^_~

To the forum users:
By the way, there is a button on the forums that says "foe" that you can click to ignore any posts. It might come in useful.

[Juliette]

i read up to existing in a false sense of reality...

You consistantly use the fact your were INSANE, to cover your ass in this. That is unacceptable.

If you would have read, you would have noticed I was saying the CONTRARY of "I was insane".. I used the words to illustrate I was completely in control of my mental faculties, but based my every decision on flawed grounds. I do NOT cover myself with the shield of mental incapacity, as I have repeatedly said before.
Thanks for reading up to there though.

Elladan, you know full well you will be hunted and pursicuted from now on for what you did. It was one of the single most horrible act I have ever seen on these forums.(A) That said, I don't have a problem giving you a chance to prove yourself. My personal problem with you was not the fact you became a mod. I told you I like the way you carry yourself. You remain cool under fire. You speak well and convey the meaning of your post wonderfully. I personally feel you could be a great mod,,,,,if you remain sane. That is not a stab at you but more a question. What caused your illness? Is it ongoing? Is it possible to come back? Do you take meds for it? Guess my point is,,,How do we know you won't get sick again?(B) With the powers you were granted you could have done major damage to these forums. You could have erased all the history of every section you had power over. Now I'm not saying you would, not at all.(C) I hope you see my point. Its not you(As in the state your in now) I question, its Elladan(The state you may become and once were) that bothers me.(D)

Thank you for being very polite, clear and direct in what you wish to say.
I will attempt to return the attitude, as I value it highly. Please correct me whenever I interpret your words incorrectly.

A. We both agree on that, I would not have bothered asking forgiveness had it not been worth asking for. To warrant a public confession, a situation must have developed of such ugliness that it actually requires the agent to follow up on the communities sense of betrayal.
B. Your concern is with the psychological ramifications? Understandable.. I cannot answer you on that, as I am no psychologist. My own psychologist says I will not fall back, as far as he can see I lack the subconscious grounds for it. As I do not understand subconscious stuff, I cannot explain that. Just realise the guy has cleared me 100% for functioning in real life, and doesn't expect me to fall back. If that fails to take away your concern, I regretfully conclude that we will disagree on that 'indefinitely'.
C. Since I understand your position on point B, I understand the logic behind these worries as well.. my 'defense' (rather counterargument) is the same as on B, and if we do disagree, I will not now nor in the forseeable future strive to become a moderator again. Should we find ourselves agreeing, I would strive in a few months to become a moderator indeed.
D. Understood, and regretted. But definitely understood. No one should have power that is thought of as in higher risk of abuse.

Also, I'll say it like this. You claim you did not "LIE" on your application. Others say you did "LIE". Well you are both right. While you did not directly tell a bold faced lie, you did pourposly omitt something that you knew would have made a difference. Then you did tell a direct lie about the Marshall incident. Now it is possible you just forgot but,,,,. I think everyone needs to know that. I commend your freinds for standing up for you, but if they can't understand the hurt, hard feelings, and distrust that came from what you did, then I'm willing to bet they are following you blindly. There is a difference in knowing and accepting, and blind faith.

There is, and I believe everyone is entitled to full information.
Jim's sticking with me might be appear more as blind faith, but I do believe he is also well aware of the events past. He was hurt in that situation as well. As for my other members and friends, they were all hurt back then, as I didn't tell them what was going on. Those that currently stand with me and say they forgive me, have made that choice by their own, not by requirement of me or anyone else.

For me personally it would have been much easier to deal with if it had been on your application. Then when you got the job why did you not immediately disclose it? I do see and understand your claim of expecting an "Interveiw". It is a valid point and one I would have backed you on,,,,if not for the fact that even after being awarded the job you still remained silent until you were called out on it. At this time you stated" that everyone that ever asked you if you were elladan got a yes" Then when questioned about Marshall you said "Everyone but him". You know how that looks?

As bad as asking a vegetarian about that one day in June '69 when he ate a hamburger?
No, Lore.. I understand your points, and can hardly argue that after I got accepted by Bazsy and Smooshable, I no longer had access to MSN, and that Spaceys post came right before I went to send them a message with that information. I didn't send it, and instead replied to you and Spacey.

@ all of Elladans friends and beleivers. If you truely know what she did, I mean truely as in go resarch the topic and see with your own eyes not word of mouth from someone involved, then i appluade you for your ability to forgive. I myself could intime forgive her. All I want to see is a complete admittance, followed by complete honesty, and finished with a true honest attempt to regain what she lost. I have not seen this as of yet.

- You have seen a complete admittance. It is in this thread.
- You have not yet seen complete honesty, I agree. You will though; believe it or not, this is all part of it.
- A true honest attempt to regain what I lost. While I understand the sentiment, I do not completely understand the actual question. Am I to restore the community to what it was just before my crimes? Or am I to regain the respect I had at the time? Either is impossible, as neither is documented or remembered. I had enemies at the time, and still have. I do not believe anything I say will be sufficient for them.

It would mean a lot to me if in time you indeed forgave me, Lore, and I will strive to prove that.

If you did change adresses, and therefore IP's why did you not leave the Elladan fiasco behind?

To do that, I would have to betray my friends yet again. Something I have learned not to do again. Therefore I have to deal with said consequences as well. In light of that it was stupid to apply for a moderator position, but that's easy to say in hindsight.

[Almost38]

ur a nice person so u got a second chance from me

[semper]

What an amusing topic this has become.

@ all those who are willing to give her the benefit of the doubt about the mental illness: fair enough, she lied to you in the past, your a trusting lot. She is smart and very good at lying obviously..why would she do it again to get herself out of the crap. I mean if anything this forum seem's to love a silly sob story and generally any tit who can read can see that. I tell you something to, it was a bloody quick recovery, i may need to re-read the original post about the details..but it normally takes people more then 7 or so months, especially, if im right, someone so young to get over such things.

@Robin and all others wandering WHY?: Why would she want to come back? Why do humans all get drunk together, why do they smoke, why do they follow society like pathetic little sheep. Becuase the need to belong is always there. It is a basic instinct, the herd is a safer place to be. She comes back because that need is not sated by her other things.

Anyone can try and argue with me on that...but you wont win, lol cos its a proven fact, and no one is exempt from it.

and then of course maybe she just liked the forums that much, sometimes an angry forum is better then no forum.

Plus if the best in-game friend you had was Jim, a blatent forum addict, who im sure probably had a hand in encouraging a return, wouldnt you cave?

Then on the other hand maybe she was originally naive enough to think we were all THAT stupid not to see through the disguise, and I admit im shocked more people didnt work it out sooner. So why now she is out would she remain in the forum. Well, as you so kindly pointed out robin, she is probably going to have her arse handed to her ingame a few times, because people on the forum know what she has done. Why would you try and win THEM back? I'll let you think about that one....

and finally why does any human being become a moderator for free. Power. Through being a mod ive seen people on this forum gain so much referent power and lots of respect. So by extension..if Auriel is that smart..but I doubt she is THAT smart..she would strive to be a mod, gain that power and respect which generally seem's to come with the position of being a dam good mod, which she probably would have been, and then well maybe revealing her real identity might not have been so badly received.

The latter parts are all speculation, indeed, but the original theory of being in a pack, nope thats true.

[Reaperman]

Can I just be a voice of reason here,

This thread was written to ask forgiveness for past actions as a member of the community and is NOT to ask for approval to be a moderator.

These 2 issues should be kept entirely seperate.

As pointed out, Auriel is on 2 week trial as am I and we will both be judged at the end of that 2 weeks on how we perform as moderators and NOT on what we did in the past.

[Legendary Apophis]

What an amusing topic this has become.

@ all those who are willing to give her the benefit of the doubt about the mental illness: fair enough, she lied to you in the past, your a trusting lot. She is smart and very good at lying obviously..why would she do it again to get herself out of the crap. I mean if anything this forum seem's to love a silly sob story and generally any tit who can read can see that. I tell you something to, it was a bloody quick recovery, i may need to re-read the original post about the details..but it normally takes people more then 7 or so months, especially, if im right, someone so young to get over such things.

@Robin and all others wandering WHY?: Why would she want to come back? Why do humans all get drunk together, why do they smoke, why do they follow society like pathetic little sheep. Becuase the need to belong is always there. It is a basic instinct, the herd is a safer place to be. She comes back because that need is not sated by her other things.

Anyone can try and argue with me on that...but you wont win, lol cos its a proven fact, and no one is exempt from it.

and then of course maybe she just liked the forums that much, sometimes an angry forum is better then no forum.

Plus if the best in-game friend you had was Jim, a blatent forum addict, who im sure probably had a hand in encouraging a return, wouldnt you cave?

Then on the other hand maybe she was originally naive enough to think we were all THAT stupid not to see through the disguise, and I admit im shocked more people didnt work it out sooner. So why now she is out would she remain in the forum. Well, as you so kindly pointed out robin, she is probably going to have her arse handed to her ingame a few times, because people on the forum know what she has done. Why would you try and win THEM back? I'll let you think about that one....

and finally why does any human being become a moderator for free. Power. Through being a mod ive seen people on this forum gain so much referent power and lots of respect. So by extension..if Auriel is that smart..but I doubt she is THAT smart..she would strive to be a mod, gain that power and respect which generally seem's to come with the position of being a dam good mod, which she probably would have been, and then well maybe revealing her real identity might not have been so badly received.

The latter parts are all speculation, indeed, but the original theory of being in a pack, nope thats true.

Hmmm that theory is valid, in absolute it is, I mean, many people in her situation would do what you said, but it's not her case, belive me. I would be more likely doing what you said than her if I did same the mistake. I USED to be an attention seeker trying to get everyone with me on my side, saying "I feel people don't like ME (not reason of my leaving this time), hence I'm leaving (hoping everyone will ask to stay etc)" etc.

People who are jerk are easy to be detected on msn, easier than here I guess, and seriously she never appeared to me as one of them, who are trustUNworthy people. If she was that bad, why would I support her? Why didn't I support as much other requests of second chances on forums?? There might be a valid reason..

I don't forgive people as easy as I post, don't get me wrong, it's more likely easy for me to forgive such big things as going on without a PPT in a week (people who know me know it's very rare thing).

Just wanted to make things clear about me.

[semper]

lol...jim. How many people on this forum would call me an AH, a DH...but yet they have me on msn...lol..its a similar thing..yet if you asked some of the people who knew me better they would never say that. Because like most people I have the ability to choose who's chops I bust.

[Psi Kiya Trist]

the only question... is motivation.

motivation. a key point for pretty much all of the arguments here.
why would she act in a crazy matter in the first place?
would you act in an unreasonable/abnormal manner if one of your closest friends died? that would be a significant event in anyone's life, and not in a positive way.

motivation, in coming back. maybe she has fond memories here, of people who do know what she did, watched it unfold, and still are willing to talk to her. i know memories of this place keep me coming back, even if it isn't the wonderful community of my memories. there are still memories here, and still people that make it worth coming back. even though for me, i've had people call me a pedophile, people call me sick and twisted, people call me just plain stupid. there are still good sides to this community, i've seen them, and i know why she'd want to come back.

motivation for becoming a mod? how would you know without talking to her about it first? you can't.

why don't you take your hate elsewhere, and let those who wish to know why she did both what she did, and her motivations for coming back are. don't prevent others from healing from the damage which filtered out.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~