How to solve the issues of mod and community??

[FreeSpirit]

Like i stated in the mod forum allready i do not agree with mods being massed for doing their job but is thbeir a way to prevent it no. Sometimes a mod deserves to be massed when he really messed up. ie my case i deserved the massing yes i did took me a while to realise but i did deserve it. We can continue this discussion for hours,days,weeks or even years but in the end it leads to the same conclusion You can not please everyone or anyone and someday you will be massed for your actions wether they were right or wrong.

[Juliette]

*reads an echo of what she said as well in this thread..*

I'm with FS.

[Wolf359]

Ok then dont try to enforce rules just dont enforce them..?

Seriously what is ever easy these days? Just because it may take a little time isnt a reason to not try it. Rules need to be enforced, people getting massed for enforcing those proper rules need to be punished, it should be easy enough to tell if somebody gets massed over a modding issue. If the said mod believes he/she has been massed over a modding issue, the said mod can then show where he/she modded things and what he/she thinks provoked the massing. As for who's judge well there are 2 game admins, that'll do.


I really havent seen much power abuse at all :s I see people abusing their in-game power to get away with things on the forum though, that has happened for a long time.

I agree - their isn't much, if any power abuse. As for not enforcing the rules if something was brought in - it's the fact that it CAN'T be enforced that is the problem. If it could be, we would try - but it CAN'T be - simple as that! How does a mod prove they have been massed because of a modding decision?

Again, it isn't right that a mod gets massed over doing their modding job - but it isn't right that someone gets massed for no reason at all either is it? But there isn't anything we can really do about that either.

You're right - the game admins could act as judge - and they could either side with teh mods and their sketchy (at best evidence) and provoke even more distrust within teh forum, or they don't.

Besides, even if this rule was brought in and enforced (which it can't be), people would get around it within seconds by getting someone else to mass the mod. The mod could then plead as much as they like that player x got player y to mass them over a modding decision, but all player y needs to say is 'I was bored and just went massing without a reason'. The admins must then decide whether to side with the mod again, and risk more unrest, or not.

There is NO rule that can be properly enforced in this situation - like I said - it would be easier to try and change people's mindsets. But some people are just too stubborn, or simply can't separate the mod from the player.

What makes me laugh is that the mods today are probably the fairest I've known since the early days of the game, and have certainly made less dubious decisions than some others in teh past. Sure, they make mistakes, but doesn't everyone?

[semper]

order. The community needs to learn that the mods do a job, a job that they do as they think they should. They DONT need to explain themselves, they DONT and certainly should never need to answer to the community for their actions. If the community has a problem, the mods have a boss, a boss that GAVE THEM the job, a boss that basically gave them the trust, the community has, 9/10 times, an Ombudsman, they are the people you should take it up with. Assaulting a mod directly in-game, or publically on the forum is a poor show. You wouldnt attack Police and expect to get away with it, even if you thought it was wrong, you would go to the chief of police, supervisor, or a lawyer or something. Not quite the same situation..but certainly the same prospective idea.

The only way to solve the problem Nimras is to well...punish people for assaulting mods like that and not going about it the proper way. Personally If I was a mod and someone massed me for doing what I thought was right, id ride them round the forum like a dog in heat, no matter what they did. Cos I suppose if its ok for them to be childish with their powers, why cant I be like that with mine? They obviously think its ok.

You should let me ad em for a while.

the mods DO need to explain themselves

every decision they make they need to have a reason a good reason and they need to tell everyone

it doesn't work when the mods are given the powers of gods and everyone else just has to sit there it only leads to abuse of power

and the reason the anonymous thing didn't work out is because none of them even tried to stay anonymous

you come in you delete a post or lock a thread or something and give a quick reason then hop back onto your other account

No they shouldnt have to explain themselves. That just demeans the position. Obviously they should have to say Locked due to spam, or warned due to being an idiot. But I mean They shouldnt have to explain further then that. They dont have the power of gods. If people dont act like idiots they dont have to use their powers, unfortunately there are to many morons who constantly break the rules, post spam in the wrong space, and argue with people who have been given a job to do. It does work, it worked for me on a different games forums. People had problems with me, I told them to shove it and go see my boss, cos I was doin the job I wanted to do to the best of my ability, and that forum was a dam good one whilst I had the reigns. Thats the way it should be with mods. You can ask them what the problem is, there is that magic pm button.

And Meth, I mean that if someone blatently goes out of their way to attack a mod FOR DOING THEIR MODDING JOB then they should be punished. I didnt say HOW I just said that they should be.

sorry semper as usual wofl is right

people can and will be massed for any reason(if a reason at all)mods should get NO exception because they are just normal ingame players

warned due to been an idiot i hope that was just an example because if thats the way this other forum your talking about is run then im not sure i wanna know

they would have to give a real reason that is breaking a rule

but they still need to use common sense that they are going to get massed when they do something stupid

I still disagrea that we should because that means we can get mass for even modding someone clearly breaking the rules which we will and thats not even in spirit of this forum what so ever.

the forum and the game are separate

you have power here but not there

people with power there are going to use it or do you expect them to lie down? while a mod uses their power here?

hell if you want make it so you can put a reason in the last post of the thread(or something like that)and have it in a special box called a mod edit or something(anonymous of course)and have it so the reason is just the number of the rule broken

then if someone disagrees take it to a special section where they can ask the mods about the decision (any mod)

if its ok for them to use their power there, then a mod should be able to use their own powers to their compete discression without having to answer for it here. You cant have it both ways, one is either right, or wrong. Its either ok for people to use the power they have to any ends they want, or its not and restrictions are needed.

@ wolf. Mods should expect to get massed? Duh... Come on wolf, we all know..or at least I hope we all know that is a fact, there is always some child who will do it. Does not mean that something cannot/should not be done to try and deter people. Unfortunately....hmmm..this has given me a interesting query. Watch this space..i'll be back in this thread later...

[Ero`Sore]

I don't see why so many people think that getting massed is a bad thing...

[Nigatsu_Aka]

Interesting debate...

I want to add a few words as an user who had/has an issue with a moderator for modding reasons.

- If all the mods would act responsably and with professionalism, there wouldn`t be any debate about issues with them isn`t it? But since the Mods create the issues mostly, it`s their fault. What issues are the mods creating, you might ask? The answer is simple: they do not mod by the book. They mod by the ear... they`ve "heard" that they must do "that" if the user x did "that". Well, this isn`t professionalism. The mods do use their free time and without benefitting of anything, but if they are still doing it, at least should do it by book. After all, they volunteered and no one compelled them.

- The mods have the power to edit, delete, move, close posts. They make the forum rules, so they should stick to them. But since there are still mods that don`t know or don`t apply the rules they make, there will always be issues with the users. Since the users cannot do anything on the forums, they will just use military actions in the game. Is it against the rules? NO. Is it against the game rules? Hell NO.

My opinion in how the mods should do their job a little more proffessional, is to not hesitate to edit or delete the inapropriate comments in the users posts and warn the users for repeated breaking of the rules and especialy to not hurry up into locking threads with big number of replies just because they are too lazy to modd a few posts and warn a few posters. And when warning the users, they should PM them the reason for the warn cos otherwise it can be considered mod abuse.

Cheers.

[Juliette]

Basic solution:

Law and Order..

[~Phoenix~]

I don't see why so many people think that getting massed is a bad thing...

WHY WHY WHY WHY

Its about WHY they are getting massed.

[Legendary Apophis]

Indeed.

[Castiel]

Ay i have an idea , we put a box on the stat page of the mods and it says:

Are you massing this person because he modded on the forum. If you check it your saying yes. Then you attack yourself for it. eh ?

[Juliette]

Priceless.

Self-regulation.. best way, as always. Otherwise, I stick with law and order.

[Legendary Apophis]

Ay i have an idea , we put a box on the stat page of the mods and it says:

Are you massing this person because he modded on the forum. If you check it your saying yes. Then you attack yourself for it. eh ?

Hmmm I think of something funny then, make it UNKNOWNLY (no warning text about it) like the checkbox in attack page in Quantum (Q players will see what I mean) but here no 2x on attack, just the bad thing lololol

FYI it is double your strike or loose it all...as i siad get rid of 2x thing...see what stays !

[Ero`Sore]

Well if Jason made it possible for the people to somehow mass the Mod's forum accounts, they wouldn't need to substitute with mod ingame accounts...

[Castiel]

Well if Jason made it possible for the people to somehow mass the Mod's forum accounts, they wouldn't need to substitute with mod ingame accounts...

We can always spam the mods inbox :'D

[Wolf359]

Interesting debate...

I want to add a few words as an user who had/has an issue with a moderator for modding reasons.

- If all the mods would act responsably and with professionalism, there wouldn`t be any debate about issues with them isn`t it? But since the Mods create the issues mostly, it`s their fault. What issues are the mods creating, you might ask? The answer is simple: they do not mod by the book. They mod by the ear... they`ve "heard" that they must do "that" if the user x did "that". Well, this isn`t professionalism. The mods do use their free time and without benefitting of anything, but if they are still doing it, at least should do it by book. After all, they volunteered and no one compelled them.

- The mods have the power to edit, delete, move, close posts. They make the forum rules, so they should stick to them. But since there are still mods that don`t know or don`t apply the rules they make, there will always be issues with the users. Since the users cannot do anything on the forums, they will just use military actions in the game. Is it against the rules? NO. Is it against the game rules? Hell NO.

My opinion in how the mods should do their job a little more proffessional, is to not hesitate to edit or delete the inapropriate comments in the users posts and warn the users for repeated breaking of the rules and especialy to not hurry up into locking threads with big number of replies just because they are too lazy to modd a few posts and warn a few posters. And when warning the users, they should PM them the reason for the warn cos otherwise it can be considered mod abuse.

Cheers.

I agree with most of what you say - but the problem is that you cannot please everyone all of the time.

As I said in my previous post, the current set of mods are the fairest I have seen here since the early days of the game - since the times of Psi, compmage, ste (aka the3rdlibra, aka GhostyGoo) and Sleipnir. Even back then ste kept getting accused of abusing his powers - which he absolutely did not do (and still remains one of the best mods we ever had) - but the difference was, because teh game was more difficult back then, people HAD to deal with his modding via the forum and via the correct channels because massing somebody then was a big deal and required a lot of time and effort.

Also, you said they should be more professional and gave a huge lists of things they should do better - well, actually - from where I'm standing they do a pretty good job. And, the less experienced mods do tend to ask advice from the more experienced when they are unsure of something. Additionally, when warning (using the forum warning system) a pm to the perpetrator is automatically generated (and is editable) linking them to the offending post.

You are right - the mods do volunteer, but they aren't automatically selected becasue they volunteer. And from what I've seen they do do things by the book and follow the rules. But when you get a bunch of members who constantly whine and moan about the rules - how can the mods ever win?

And, the issues are 'mostly the mods' fault'?! Complete and utter tripe! I'd say around 90% of the issues I have seen are simply created by peopel because they are too sensitive about having had something modded, or a post/thread removed. Mostly people are simply making mountains out of mole hills! In fact the only time I can truly remember some mods screwing up (completely) was last years awards fiasco!

Like I said, changes in the game have made the game easier, which has made massing easier - this in turn has bred arrogance and disrespect (not just towards mods) in the forum, which in turn has led to this situation. It wouldn't have happened in the first 6/12 months of teh game - because it would've been too difficult.

If you truly think that it is a correct course of action for a mod to be massed in game because of doing his job in the forum, then sorry, but how do you reason that? Why do people do it? Laziness? Arrogance? They knew the mod was right? They're not very good at expressing themselves? I don't know.

It isn't a correct course of action, and no matter how you try and justify it - you can't!

But I still say again - there is no way any rules that say you can't do it can be enforced, and therefore to introduce something where it would be (at best) someone's word against another would simply introduce more controversy and mistrust.