How to solve the issues of mod and community??

[FreeSpirit]

As I said in my previous post, the current set of mods are the fairest I have seen here since the early days of the game - since the times of Psi, compmage, ste (aka the3rdlibra, aka GhostyGoo) and Sleipnir. Even back then ste kept getting accused of abusing his powers - which he absolutely did not do (and still remains one of the best mods we ever had) - but the difference was, because teh game was more difficult back then, people HAD to deal with his modding via the forum and via the correct channels because massing somebody then was a big deal and required a lot of time and effort.

Also, you said they should be more professional and gave a huge lists of things they should do better - well, actually - from where I'm standing they do a pretty good job. And, the less experienced mods do tend to ask advice from the more experienced when they are unsure of something. Additionally, when warning (using the forum warning system) a pm to the perpetrator is automatically generated (and is editable) linking them to the offending post.

You are right - the mods do volunteer, but they aren't automatically selected becasue they volunteer. And from what I've seen they do do things by the book and follow the rules. But when you get a bunch of members who constantly whine and moan about the rules - how can the mods ever win?

And, the issues are 'mostly the mods' fault'?! Complete and utter tripe! I'd say around 90% of the issues I have seen are simply created by peopel because they are too sensitive about having had something modded, or a post/thread removed. Mostly people are simply making mountains out of mole hills! In fact the only time I can truly remember some mods screwing up (completely) was last years awards fiasco!

Like I said, changes in the game have made the game easier, which has made massing easier - this in turn has bred arrogance and disrespect (not just towards mods) in the forum, which in turn has led to this situation. It wouldn't have happened in the first 6/12 months of teh game - because it would've been too difficult.

If you truly think that it is a correct course of action for a mod to be massed in game because of doing his job in the forum, then sorry, but how do you reason that? Why do people do it? Laziness? Arrogance? They knew the mod was right? They're not very good at expressing themselves? I don't know.

It isn't a correct course of action, and no matter how you try and justify it - you can't!

But I still say again - there is no way any rules that say you can't do it can be enforced, and therefore to introduce something where it would be (at best) someone's word against another would simply introduce more controversy and mistrust.

Wow that sums it up quite well. Nice post Wolf359

[~Phoenix~]

Not to mention for most of the time libra could kick the crap out of anyone in the game. Not that that is possible anymore.

[Wolf359]

Not to mention for most of the time libra could kick the crap out of anyone in the game. Not that that is possible anymore.

There were some of us that he couldn't - including some people who called him corrupt.

[Asami Ayano]

Well, massing a mod also calls certain actions into attention. if somebody just complained about threads being locked, power abuse, or rules being to tight, the thread will either be moved to an obscure section, locked, or flamed to death. But if there is massing or ingame action invloved, members can get themselves heard.

Because if you recall, the "correct" channels either never work or is slow and inefficient. I've been trying to get a ip exception since 2006... and I still haven't gotten a real reply or action yet. Just look at Purga's thread. He just wanted to bring attention to the cheaters, admittedly, he should have posted in the mod sections etc. But he posted in general, because he believe that he wouldn't be HEARD IN THE CORRECT SECTION. But then again, if purga was somebody who massed everyone who spoke out against it, then he would be heard at least.

I'm not endorsing the massing of mods or members because of forum issues. In fact, I think this time, it was completely uncalled for. But I'm also saying that it's not completely wrong either. Because simply the current system makes people feel unheard, so they have to be abusive and agressive.

I remember back when omega and other powerful players made up the mods... of course they aren't going to be massed. So, really, it was "nice and quiet", maybe not because it was hard to mass, but because the people who 'controlled' the forum were out of reach. I remember if somebody made a newbish comment, certain newb hunters would do their work, or the forum would mass them. Now, it doesn't really matter, and people have become more outspoken. Previously supressed peopel are more... arrogant. I don't think it's because massing is easier, it that the massed can recover without too much effort. Furthermore, back then I respected the mods, looked up to them. Now, I feel like massing a few myself. And that isn't a good feeling.

How many of you who post after me actually bothered reading my entire post?
{feels unheard}

[Wolf359]

:? Well, massing a mod also calls certain actions into attention. if somebody just complained about threads being locked, power abuse, or rules being to tight, the thread will either be moved to an obscure section, locked, or flamed to death. But if there is massing or ingame action invloved, members can get themselves heard.

Because if you recall, the "correct" channels either never work or is slow and inefficient. I've been trying to get a ip exception since 2006... and I still haven't gotten a real reply or action yet. Just look at Purga's thread. He just wanted to bring attention to the cheaters, admittedly, he should have posted in the mod sections etc. But he posted in general, because he believe that he wouldn't be HEARD IN THE CORRECT SECTION. But then again, if purga was somebody who massed everyone who spoke out against it, then he would be heard at least.

I'm not endorsing the massing of mods or members because of forum issues. In fact, I think this time, it was completely uncalled for. But I'm also saying that it's not completely wrong either. Because simply the current system makes people feel unheard, so they have to be abusive and agressive.

I remember back when omega and other powerful players made up the mods... of course they aren't going to be massed. So, really, it was "nice and quiet", maybe not because it was hard to mass, but because the people who 'controlled' the forum were out of reach. I remember if somebody made a newbish comment, certain newb hunters would do their work, or the forum would mass them. Now, it doesn't really matter, and people have become more outspoken. Previously supressed peopel are more... arrogant. I don't think it's because massing is easier, it that the massed can recover without too much effort. Furthermore, back then I respected the mods, looked up to them. Now, I feel like massing a few myself. And that isn't a good feeling.

How many of you who post after me actually bothered reading my entire post?
{feels unheard}

Forum Mods/Admins have never been able to get ip exceptions, that has always been teh game Admins - so your point is invalid.

The correct channels to address an issue with a mod are by contacting that mod or another mod via pm - not by flaming and having a go in the forum. Why don't people listen??

And trust me, it is because massing is easier, but yes, it is also easier to recover - and mods were massed (although not really for modding decisions) even when there were Omega and other powerful members who were mods - I know because I was an Admin then - but the fact that people COULD mass them again invalidates your point. Besides, I was talking before them, none of the mods I mentioned were Omega anyway. In my opinion, the time you mentioned is the time when some mods made BAD decisions for the WRONG reasons.

And yes, I did read it all.

[Asami Ayano]

True game admin and not forum admin/mods take care of that. I'm just trying to point out the inefficiency of the system. How many threads have to be locked before a massing to take care of the situation?

I remember back when there was actually a Black Black market because the black market had mods that went psycho. What ended it wasn't because of complaints or calm talk, but rather massive flaming and I believe the massing of nuto.

Via pm is a great method, and I totally support it. But sometimes, it's not enough. I personally never had a problem with a mod before, so I never tried to pm system to see how effective it is.

But I am talking about when there are bad mod decisions. Massing can be a great tool then. It shouldn't be banned or limited. It's up to the individual members of the community.

[Wolf359]

But I am talking about when there are bad mod decisions. Massing can be a great tool then. It shouldn't be banned or limited. It's up to the individual members of the community.

I never said it should be banned or limited - in fact, I have stated that bringing in such a ban/limit would be impossible to enforce and would only further increase the alleged problems between mods and the community - but again, I ask you, or anyone else, to justify the massing of a mod's game account because of a modding decision. Just because somebody makes a bad modding decision or modding mistake, do they deserve to be massed? I think not.

Furthermore - where is the line drawn? What happens when a mod is massed over a decision that was 100% legitimate and correct, it was simply that those they modded didn't like the fact it was against them - is that correct? Or is it holding a mod to ransom?

[Ero`Sore]

It is impossible to mass a moderator.

If you mass a player who is a moderator on the forums, that is just an excuse for massing the player.

Feel free to mass anyone for whatever or no reason. stargatewars.com is a game, have fun.

Note: I do not condone massing of Moderators without first speaking to me. If you have an issue with a Moderator talk to me and we will try to resolve it peacefully first, althought I cannot nor would stop you from taking it ingame. If you do take it ingame before speaking to me, I will refuse to help you and you will forfeit the right to complain about the moderator which might actually get him or her dismissed if the charges are strong and stick.

[Asami Ayano]

eros seems almost contradictory as obudsman and as just eros... lol


Well, honestly, mods are human too, I'm sure they make mistakes. But so are forum players. So, in eyes of the rules and the ingame policy, I think that mods and regular forum goers are created equal.

I've seen plenty of forum goers massed because of their actions on the forums/msn. I don't see why mods have it differently. It's just that the mods are in a more visible position and have harder choices and decisions. But that's why they are mods.

Mods are the most responsible, mature, and self sacrificing of the forum goers, or should be. I admire them for that. But there is always going to be some people who get pissed off at 100% legitimate actions, because sometimes rules only go so far. I hope no mod is going to change correct decisions because of a massing, but rather to rebuild and lead by example.

It's true that there is a line. But it's a line that will be drawn by the community, not the mods, admins, or the rules. If somebody is massed for little to no reason, there will be an retaliation by the rest of the community.

[Wolf359]

Finally I think the point gets through!

[Asami Ayano]

Finally I think the point gets through!

I never quite understood the point in the first place

[Wolf359]

Finally I think the point gets through!

I never quite understood the point in the first place

No matter, what you said in your post seems to put you on the same train of thought!

[Asami Ayano]

Finally I think the point gets through!

I never quite understood the point in the first place

No matter, what you said in your post seems to put you on the same train of thought!

I suppose. But I'm always too late to board the train.
Please clarify for me what is at the destination

[AncientAnubis]

Finally I think the point gets through!

I never quite understood the point in the first place

No matter, what you said in your post seems to put you on the same train of thought!

I suppose. But I'm always too late to board the train.
Please clarify for me what is at the destination

Expensive fortune cookies.

[Zeratul]

as someone said a few pages back, "errare humanum est" - it is human to fail...

just as mods should be addressed through proper channels when making mistakes, users who make mistakes/break rules, are punished through proper methods... only the harshest rule breaks are "rewarded" with ban for first-time offences... at this time, the current system is more or less following:

1. verbal warnings (not on the warn-counter)
2. first warning
3. second warning
4. third warning + short-term ban
5. above 4 steps repeated, with ban length only thing to change...

had there been no system made to take into account that it is human to fail, any and all rule breaks would have been rewarded with permabans... just think how terrible the forums would have been then...