feeling a bit nostalgic

[Manetheren]

We are like a bunch of candy junkies.. We would rather have a full bag of m&m's than a small handful. I agree that taking away the unlimited turns would cause the price of turns to grow dramatically and could benefit small players greatly if they sold their turns at a premium but it still wont help them catch up the the guys with 500k-1 mil per day unit productions. I do remember saving attack turns before a big strike and I also remember being out of turns with defenses left to mass. It makes a huge difference for an alliance war after you run out of turns and the other guy rebuilds his defense..

[left the game]

agree mate but raise the limit to 1ok

[Hansbrough]

Wolf, please explain to me how this game has unlimited AT's? From where I stand it is as it always has been, trade AT's and there will always be those that have "unlimited" at's.

[Legendary Apophis]

if turns werent tradeable and you cudnt get them off the market that'd be cool and we made 150 turns a day and the limit raised to say 6K

that wud be fun i think

viewtopic.php?p=1172266#p1172266

He has a good idea for ATs, I like especially the one with alliances AT trades (I add there lone wolvves can only trade with lone wolves)

[[KMA]Avenger]

the only way for unlimited attacks to be neutralized is for the "send attack" feature to be removed from SS...

which i am in favor of removing

[Legendary Apophis]

the only way for unlimited attacks to be neutralized is for the "send attack" feature to be removed from SS...

which i am in favor of removing

You mean the ATs trading limitated by 999ATs per sending in the stats page?

[Wolf359]

Some people call them unlimited ATs, some call them auto-generated ATs - whatever you wish to call them, they are the many ATs that are not produced by a player account, but are created out of virtual thin air and added to the market.

If memory serves, it was done mainly because a vocal minority complained that they didn't have enough turns to raid - and from that - WHAM! Massively exponential growth, single players being able to mass whole alliances, etc etc.

To appreciate what removing unlimited AT would do everyone needs to llok at the game as a whole, beyond their own account. Because AT would become the rare the commodity they should be, prices will be higher. Which means that to a certain degree, smaller players can control the price they sell to the larger players - whether through the market or broker. Some players will always want lots of turns, and what could potentially happen is that a player could find themselves in a situation where they are able to play other players off against each other in a bidding war.

It also means that larger players cannot threaten as much by saying 'sell at this price' or I'll mass you (and I have heard of instances of this) because they will not have the turns to do that, or they will simply realise that actually, there are more important things to use turns on than massing because I can't get my own way!

Further more, less available AT consequently means people will use them more wisely, which in turn should see an increase in profit when attacking/raiding.

Above all else, it brings a greater degree of decision making/strategy back into the game.....

a few examples....

More consideration into whether it is more profitable to sell the AT, attempt to get players to bid for your AT, or use them yourself.

Because they are more valuable, better consideration into using them when you do use them.

Because they are more rare, more thought into the consequences of using them.

Because they are more rare, more co-operation and co-ordination is needed to achieve goals.

Because they are more rare, then a decent co-ordinated effort can severely impact players/alliances that are otherwise untouchable (through fear factor).

I do not agree that it would make it impossible to catch up the bigger players that's just an easy 'cop out' excuse. If anything, the bigger players are more untouchable as things stand because, whether they are lone-wolves or in alliances, they know that however much damage is done to them, because they are bigger, and have greater 'buying power', they can easily afford enough AT to retaliate with greater force and effect.

It would give smaller players more of a voice because whereas now a single player might not attack a member of an alliance because they know their account will be easily massed within a split second, with decreased availabilty of AT it will probably be worth the risk more as the alliance would be more reluctant to mass someone and lose a significant proportion of the now precious AT in retaliation for a single naq hit.

[hidden]

Why is any of this things you mention killing the game?
Maybe your interest in game is so low that no matter if old school is back in action you still wont have thrill when playin it.Maybe you just outgrow it.
When this things were introduced they were ussualy what people wanted.Maybe only loud minority wanted those changes(like now)but in 99% of cases was product of players wishes.
I remember Wolf385 on first front line deffending 1 AT per turn but he was so outnumber he looked funny in his quest.Same with ingame market and with increase of naq produced by UU from 20 to 40 naq.All players wishes and all highly praised when introduced and all those changes inflated the games economy and Irreversable changed the game.
I for one always managed to find interest in this game.No matter what upgrades brought.Always tried to adopt to them and make the best of them not that I was best at doing so.
I never thought the game is dieng.Why would I?Couse few of old players left?Manly they lost interest in playing the game as it is.Not couse how much it changed it.They lack time etc.
I hate when they leave it but we all will eventualy one day but until then try to find some amusement in the game ,new goal anything to get blood rushing throu your vains again.
If anything then tittle as "Game is dead" give that deadly feeling around the game not the upgrades whatever they might be.

hey yeah i remember that

i wanted more attack turns he wanted 1

so he came up with an idea for a tech that gives more attack turns at the cost of income(or something else)

[repli**cator]

hmm a reset would indeed make some players stop playing since all their work has gone *poof* and they now have to start over...

i voted for the last option about the unlimited turns but i think it's more like the statement closest to what i want.
that would be making attack turns untradeable. no more sending em trough to another...the only way to get turns would be trough MT and self-production, of course it does mean that the bigger people with giant UP's have an advantage and then i'd say a reset would be best but i'm still doubtfull about the reset thingy..

i'd rather have trading off attack turns limited...and maybe something that takes the biggest amry size to the smalles and makes it in percentages .. giving people above 50% (the biggest people) a certain negative bonus to their UP and people under 50% (the smaller) a positive bonus to their UP (total UP), that would maybe make it possible for smaller one to catch up. instead of a cap that hits at a size that is imo too high.

[unseen1]

If market is removed there is no way in hell that 10 mill guy would grow to 100 mill in some normal period of time no matter how much would AT be worth for trading.AT today is one thing that keeps small in touch with the big ones.Like it or hate it it is neccessity we all have to live with it.There were nice suggestions made erlier how to find middle road here and honestly I thought Forum allready decided about it:

4) trade of market turns (MT) for actual (non transferable) turns

My interpretation of this upgrade was that all market turns would be untreadable,AT produced per turn would be sellable.Thats why i stacked with 10k of AT hoping of me having some stock for future wars but I was wrong

h
i'd rather have trading off attack turns limited...and maybe something that takes the biggest amry size to the smalles and makes it in percentages .. giving people above 50% (the biggest people) a certain negative bonus to their UP and people under 50% (the smaller) a positive bonus to their UP (total UP), that would maybe make it possible for smaller one to catch up. instead of a cap that hits at a size that is imo too high.

Caps are fine,just set a lill bit to high.No need to criple other peoples hard work like it is done in ascension.

[Wolf359]

um....?

nobody said to remove the market.....

But you have to think about you are are saying with regards AT. Turns are the game currency, not UU. Without turns you can do very little - that may seem like a backwards argument because of what I've said previously - but as it stands, the bigger players are the ones who can AFFORD the most turns - and they can buy however many they like, because there is an unlimited supply - therefore they control everything.

If there is a limited supply (as there should be - after all, we don't have artificially produced naq and UU on the market, do we? So we do we have artificially produce AT? Because a vocal minority whined about not having enough AT to raid and.) then the bigger players will not be able to buy however many they want, because the unlimited supply is turned off. Should they need more turns, then they would have to be willing to pay for them. There will always be some players willing to sell - but the smart smaller players will know they can use the situation to their advantage.

It is a myth that the availability supply of AT today keeps the small players in touch with the bigger ones - the only way it might possibly be true is that if teh smaller player is prepared to sit and raid all day long - but they can't, because they can't afford the AT to do that (and frankly - where is teh fun in that monotony?).

In truth, it is the fact that there is this auto-generated AT that has caused this gap in the first place.

Nobody has said it won't still be difficult to catch up the bigger players - but I've said it before, and I'll say it again - people need to look beyond their own account and how removing the auto-generated AT will affect the game as a whole. It is more than simply the ability to raid endlessly.

At the end of the day it all comes down to choice - but the introduction of unlimited AT removed a lot of that choice - i.e. it made it so that the ONLY way you can compete is by constant, brainless, mind numbingly boring, tedious, monotonous raiding.

[Legendary Apophis]

Raiding is boring I've to agree on that...raided several millions of uu and it's really boring to use all of your ATs...and when you've to wait to get ATs at acceptable rates when all sell at stupid crazy ones, the best thing to do is to give up raiding and start farming and/or stat building with income

[[KMA]Avenger]

the only way for unlimited attacks to be neutralized is for the "send attack" feature to be removed from SS...

which i am in favor of removing

You mean the ATs trading limitated by 999ATs per sending in the stats page?

i mean removal of sending attacks...meaning no player can send attacks to any other player. the only things which you should be able to trade (send) should be UU and naq.

[Legendary Apophis]

the only way for unlimited attacks to be neutralized is for the "send attack" feature to be removed from SS...

which i am in favor of removing

You mean the ATs trading limitated by 999ATs per sending in the stats page?

i mean removal of sending attacks...meaning no player can send attacks to any other player. the only things which you should be able to trade (send) should be UU and naq.

No I myself believe sending between alliance members and officers/commanders should be possible. Rest not.

[hidden]

um....?

nobody said to remove the market.....

But you have to think about you are are saying with regards AT. Turns are the game currency, not UU. Without turns you can do very little - that may seem like a backwards argument because of what I've said previously - but as it stands, the bigger players are the ones who can AFFORD the most turns - and they can buy however many they like, because there is an unlimited supply - therefore they control everything.

If there is a limited supply (as there should be - after all, we don't have artificially produced naq and UU on the market, do we? So we do we have artificially produce AT? Because a vocal minority whined about not having enough AT to raid and.) then the bigger players will not be able to buy however many they want, because the unlimited supply is turned off. Should they need more turns, then they would have to be willing to pay for them. There will always be some players willing to sell - but the smart smaller players will know they can use the situation to their advantage.

It is a myth that the availability supply of AT today keeps the small players in touch with the bigger ones - the only way it might possibly be true is that if teh smaller player is prepared to sit and raid all day long - but they can't, because they can't afford the AT to do that (and frankly - where is teh fun in that monotony?).

In truth, it is the fact that there is this auto-generated AT that has caused this gap in the first place.

Nobody has said it won't still be difficult to catch up the bigger players - but I've said it before, and I'll say it again - people need to look beyond their own account and how removing the auto-generated AT will affect the game as a whole. It is more than simply the ability to raid endlessly.

At the end of the day it all comes down to choice - but the introduction of unlimited AT removed a lot of that choice - i.e. it made it so that the ONLY way you can compete is by constant, brainless, mind numbingly boring, tedious, monotonous raiding.

as always you say it prefectly
*gets nostalgic*oh i remember when i had the idea of having unlimited attack turns(i mean that literally you wouldn't have to buy them you would just be able to attack an unlimited amount of times but of course i probably said that because of my seemingly unlimited amount of time)

anyway about trading attack turns to officers commanders alliance members and so on

you still get problems that way

i think you should only be able to receive a certain amount of turns from others