global warming argument

[Cycladic]

4.

*waits for magnetic poles to reverse*

I'm really curious to see what happens, though, probably not the good kind of curiosity.

nothing will happen. just yer compass will point south instead of north and we'll see aurora borealis in different places than today. magnetic pole is moving constantly (that is today it's somewhere else than it was yesterday. moving north at 40 km per year) and managed to reverse (did even more interesting acrobatics) few times in the past. as far as i know no one died because of this.

Well the last time it did happen roughly 780,000 years ago so there's no real evidence as to what happened, though it's fairly certain there was no mass extinction.

I'm just wondering what will happen to Earth during the time when the poles shift. What will happen to us with our reduced/lack of magnetic field protecting us.

[Solus]

well im one of the ignorant, not as in i dont know much on the topic, but i dont care.

has anyone noticed that a few years back the scientists thought it was 'global warming' but of late theyre changing their story to 'climate change'?

not that i completely dismiss the issue, of course not. i just dont know if these 'reputable' scientists actually really know whats going on. they have gotten it wrong before.

i do beleive economical fuel sources and consumption is required, ie the rising cost of oil, no matter what you beleive has its effect on society.

The Kyoto Protocol is absolutely useless, it restricts nations while the large offenders of greenhouse emissions are exempt. i understand that china and india are marked as developing countries, but that doesnt matter. THEYRE DOING THE MOST DAMAGE. EVER CONSIDER THAT? (not directed anyone here, just the people who wrote the protocol. absolute idiots.) china and india have the resources to cope otherwise. besides, there are plenty of other things they can invest in to assist their economies.

yes i live in a country which recently subscribed to the Kyoto protocol. I am embarassed by this. i never thought someone in my government would be as shortsighted as this.

sorry for the rant, just aggrevated by the entire issue and the facts, or rather lack of accurate facts.

[stephen sarsfield]

More on the magnetic pole: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003 ... cfield.htm

All records about global warming I've seen start around 1850, and show a steady growth of the average temperature. But that's only slightly over 150 years.
More about temperatures: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/

Freeman Dyson about climate models: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTSxubKfTBU

[Fear Of The Duck]

and here's a bit bout media: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vT ... re=related
so i won't bother any longer about the issue...

*walks away*

[Phoenix of Terra]

I think the point that the alarmists are trying to make (or have overly exaggerated) is that while the normal cycle of warming and cooling have always existed, the carbon level (one of the three components of the cycle) is much higher than it should be. National Geo had a good graph of it.

[Solus]

I think the point that the alarmists are trying to make (or have overly exaggerated) is that while the normal cycle of warming and cooling have always existed, the carbon level (one of the three components of the cycle) is much higher than it should be. National Geo had a good graph of it.

yes that probably is right... and to be honest, the situation aggrevates me. oil prices, the greenies all like DRIVE SMALLER CARS OR DIE and all... *mutters under breath*

btw, as before, this isnt directed at anyone here, just outlining my general rage...

[thaltek]

and if anyone had bothered to watch the vid in the first post most of the bickering wouldn't have been posted....... just watch the vid it is more about risk annlisis and has less to do with weather or not warming is happening....



yes corran i agree with your post on the reasons however, i should note that the carboniferous period and the late jurassic where exceptionally warm periods in earths history, the last 10 thousand years have been suprisingly mild ..............

[Fear Of The Duck]

thal's video is total crap. why:

it starts with a good idea...
then the BASIC LOGICAL ERROR is made...
and last, but not least, there's tendentious manipulation of information...

now: 100k uu for the first person to find the logical error!
deadline: sat 26 jan 2008 20:00 gmt

[thaltek]

thal's video is total crap. why:

it starts with a good idea...
then the BASIC LOGICAL ERROR is made...
and last, but not least, there's tendentious manipulation of information...

now: 100k uu for the first person to find the logical error!
deadline: sat 26 jan 2008 20:00 gmt

*note to self ..... don't bother posting ANYTHING serious EVER!!!

[buck]

Global warming, global warming global warming...

...Have you guys heard the other chain of thought? Global COOLING, which i myself am i fan of...

But in all seriousness..

..greenland was populated by the vikings, yes the very north of greenland infact, Its not quite so habitable now you know...

Wonder why that is?

Tell us buck, i hear you say...

...Global warming has been happening on and off for millions of years, and will carry on happening, its nothing to be afraid of, its just what happens...its a natural cycle of the earth, we have little to no bearing on it, yes we spew out stuff but frankly, we are nothing but ants...Unless your telling me the vikings all had cars...

I however, will take great delight in knowing that i can soon live on the coast of greenland , weareing shorts...

[Phoenix of Terra]

...Unless your telling me the vikings all had cars...

That is so tempting to spam...

[chaisejret]

This planet looks like the moon the sun isnt hot just sexy and colourfull thats why you smile when you see it but when you look at the moon unless theres stars out there you feel realy stupid. Its not that the earth is warming up its just that more and more people are feeling stupid. Global warming is not a problem unlaughing welfare protectors are the problem. Who cares stuff dies and gets beat up and cruel against all the time dying happens I think too much time feeling stupid rubs off.

[chaisejret]

Impressive have much clever ordinary sleep. Heaps of it and go and see shout. shout shout shout shout shout.

[Fear Of The Duck]

thal's video is total crap. why:

it starts with a good idea...
then the BASIC LOGICAL ERROR is made...
and last, but not least, there's tendentious manipulation of information...

now: 100k uu for the first person to find the logical error!
deadline: sat 26 jan 2008 20:00 gmt

well... looks like i'll keep that 100k uu

the answer:
basic logical error:
in the 1st quadrant (false/action) we have an economic disaster. but in 3rd (true/action) the movie just says "of course some costs" and then shows a big smiley. BUT THE SAME ACTIONS HAVE BEEN TAKEN SO THE ECONOMIC RESULT HAS TO BE THE SAME.

manipulation of information:
the error described above might also fall into this category. then the movie says about EXTREMES and then describes the extreme in 4th quadrant (true/no action) kinda more extreme then in the 1st while all the time pretending to be an objective analysis.


so now let's do this thingy RIGHT:


1. we have two areas affected:
a) socio-economic area
b) environmental area

2. let's assume the results are extreme (i.e. complete disasters)

3. let's assume action taken is really 100% efficient

4. let's assume absolute environmental disaster leads to absolute socio-economic disaster.

we get:

board.PNG

according to this if the action is taken we'll end up in exactly the same situation. disaster is 100% guaranteed.


on top of that assumption 3 is at least disputable. complete socio-economic disaster and still government actions work as planned? rolfmao... they rarely work in relatively normal conditions.

so it's much more probable we'll get this (let's say some of our actions worked):

board1.PNG

[*~Starry~*]

Global warming isn't a certain area being warmer. In fact, winters will become colder while summers become hotter and longer. The changes may not be drastically apparent if you think just about the weather alone. But you'll notice with the NATURAL DISASTERS. How are hurricanes and cyclones created? By imbalances in hot air and cold air. There will be frequent thunderstorms etc.

Just look at the frequency and intensity of droughts and hurricanes and other natural disasters in your area alone. I know near my home, there is severe drought which caused several wildfires, followed by a period of intense rain and, which caused mudslides.

From what I can, as a Business Major and an avid Environmentalist, the Economy is already being hurt by these events. When natural disasters occur, the economy is turned on it's side and takes years to recover in the area, and may never be as good as it once was. Furthermore, from an economic standpoint, many energy saving alternative can actually save energy and advance technology at the same time. Maybe the hybrid you buy today, will be the start of a new form of transportation. Green thinking is creating new jobs and innovations that is a world apart from what we have before, creating more opportunities. Sure, the miners are going to suffer, but in the long run, they're going to suffer anyways. There are only so many deposits.

Back to global warming, it's true in the long run, earth's temperature will correct itself. But it'll take millions of years. By then, we'll probably be extinct. But for ourselves and our future generation, global warming exists more than just a hotter summer or a day by the beach. It's about your life and your standard of living. How comfortable can you be by the beach when there is water rationing? {for those who don't know, you can't drink ocean water} How much are you willing to spend when you are afraid that you may lose your home in the next storm?

In my opinion, the chart should look something like:

False w/ Action: Economic - YAY! Environ- YAY!
True w/ Action: Economic - YAY! Enviorn - Not as bad as could be.
False w/o Action: Economic- Disaster Eviron- No change.
True w/o action: Economic - BAD! Environ- Devastating


From what I see, we benefit economically from the stopping of pollution and finding alternative fuels as a way of helping the economy. We are going to run out of fuel by 2050 or so, according to some studies. We need to invest in the future. Furthermore, economically, prices will rise as there is less supply. Hence, more money will be devoted to those, and spending will decrease, which lowers GDP and slows or stalls the economy.

By fixing global warming, we can save the economy as well, by creating new markets and saving individuals money. A solar panel pays for itself after 5-10 years and so does many other energy saving appliances. For instant, one regular lightbulb, replaced with compact flourescents will save you money because the compact flourescents last longer and uses less energy. That money can be spent on other goods or be invested into further technology.

Green is the future. The earth only has so many resources and we must preserve them.


starry~*
Environmental Commissioner of MVHS