Make large players able to recover from attacks

[chargin]

Don't post unless you read everything.

Background:
In ascension currently when you are over 2 billion planets you get reduced planet growth. By 2.5billion you are at 71.55%, by 3bil your at 54.43% and by 4bil you are at just 35.36% by 5bil you're growing at 25.3%, at 10bil you are on just 8.94%. The main factors in war are current size/stats and recovery time. At the moment accounts at 2bil planets verse 4bil a guy with 2bil will recover almost 3 times faster then the guy with 4 bil if they get into a fight. Over sustained 1 on 1 fighting a weaker account will wear down a larger account until they are around the same strength. Not only this but the single largest thing that is deciding how good players do in ascended is if they are getting into fights with other players or being farmed a lot. This just isn't right, the larger the account the more vulnerable they are. The reason for the reduction of growth for 2bil planets was to stop large accounts growing so rapidly, not to make bigger accounts more destroyable then smaller accounts.

The suggestion:
The maximum number of planets a player has could be saved. If he loses 500mil of his planets, he should be able to rebuild to this level at 100% Cosmic Expansion Rate (CER). This is so bigger players can fight each other and other players and get back to their strength at a reasonable pace. This doesn't make big players grow faster, it just makes big players able to have fights with other accounts again. They can not bully weaker accounts like before this update because accounts are more comparable now.

This works by every 6 hours (or when ever the formula for the percent of planets gained changes) the current total planets should be saved. If the number is below the maximum then for the next x turns they will have 100% production. x=(max planets-current planets)/(CER at 100%) rounded down. This will make sure nobody can try to increase their growth rate through this.

Thanks for reading all that.

[Zeratul]

this belongs in ascended suggestions... therefore it is in ascended suggestions...

[cyberblade]

I can agree with this. It makes a lot of sense. let me run a scenario to see how this goes...

A 1 bil player trains 800mil assassins and with the aid of a 130% rank mod wipes out 1 bil planets from someone with 4 bil planets. they then go to war-and though player b (4 bil) now has only 3 bil planets-he still only grows at 54% of 120 mil planets. player a at 100% grows faster-even though his CER is only 80 mil. In the end the extra growth gives him an advantage-he can recover quickly, and he still gets the rank mod bonus.

This is not a good scenario. The growth limitations are in place to keep people from getting too big too fast-not to penalize being a big player.

I think chargin's idea has merit-though I would like to see more responses, as I'm sure there are effects I haven't noticed yet.

[Thufir_Hawat]

I belive the growth penalties should be removed or at least moved to 10B+

Over 100 players are 3B+
???? how many are past 1B

They were set to allow others to be competive not create a flat playing surface for all.

The Rank Mods and the Growth Penalties are both antiquated.

If neither or both cannot be removed then this is a partial soulution.

[Lore]

I can agree with this. It makes a lot of sense. let me run a scenario to see how this goes...

A 1 bil player trains 800mil assassins and with the aid of a 130% rank mod wipes out 1 bil planets from someone with 4 bil planets. they then go to war-and though player b (4 bil) now has only 3 bil planets-he still only grows at 54% of 120 mil planets. player a at 100% grows faster-even though his CER is only 80 mil. In the end the extra growth gives him an advantage-he can recover quickly, and he still gets the rank mod bonus.

This is not a good scenario. The growth limitations are in place to keep people from getting too big too fast-not to penalize being a big player.

I think chargin's idea has merit-though I would like to see more responses, as I'm sure there are effects I haven't noticed yet.

This senerio simple states it ok for a smaller account to "Bully" a bigger more massive account.

Base is admin has handcuffed, straightjacketed, leg ironed, and blindfolded big accounts. When will we be allowed to compete again instead of just being nickled and dimed todeath by sniper accounts who are growing 10,,20,,or 30 times faster then us?

[repli**cator]

well you can say what you like about the CER being decreased but i don't see it as a bad thing...
why was growth stopped in main realm...isn't this a good thing??
then why should we allow unlimited growth in ascension??
you can say well yeh but 300 (just a wild guess) ppl have plus 2B planets ... well good for them, what about the other 3000 players??
(and yes i'm one of those 3000 players that don't fear the CER decreasement 'yet')

why aren't smaller players allowed to dish out bigger ones?? they still can't descend you (or will have a lot of difficulties and you'd have to make some big mistakes as not to replenish your LF) so your main won't suffer.
all you loose are planets while they grow back at a rate much faster then in main server.

[Munchy]

I like the concept, but I would make it abit different. If it left like that, it would actually be rather bad, and would help snipers even more as defenses get larger.

What I would suggest is this:
As soon as you hit the 2 bil limit and start facing the decreasing planets you get a timer of sorts on your account. So long as you continue to go up the timer continues. Now if you get knocked back then the timer stops, and begins going back. During the time that it is going back you would have 100% production, until either the timer hit 0 or you hit your old limit, which case the timer would begin going forward again. If it hit 0 before you hit your old limit, then that would be your new upper limit and you would have to fight the plague back up to your old limit.

What this would mean would be that if you fought the limit for 30 days, and then got knocked down a billion planets, you would have 30 days to get back up again at full production. This obviously would not be a hard task, but it would also mean that if you were in a war with someone during that time period and built up then you might not be able to make it to the limit, so it would still be viable to sit on other accounts, because they would then either be stuck building nothing or possibly be forced to fight the plague back up again.

I know it sounds complicated, but meh, whatever.

[cyberblade]

I think Munchy's idea would make this a viable solution. Because then war would still keep people down-but not sniper accounts.

[chargin]

repli**cator try imagine this. You have reached 2bil planets in ascension, well done, you make 3, 4, even 5 bil planets. You aren't getting farmed too much by sniper accounts because u trained 100mil defenders so you don't have to deal with it, you trained 600 mill assassins to protect against your account being assassinated by random players in ascension that assassinate big accounts for no reason because they can. One day a sniper account hits you and breaks through, you're online so you try to grab your DMU back, you hit *113 DMU stolen*. The next day you get up, log in your account, look at your defence - 5mil left, your assassins, 60mil left. You have 170 million CER, it will take you 21 days to rebuild. The sniper attacking you grows at 100%, he lost 100mil attack super planets which somebody destroyed off him after his DMU run, he would have lost about 10mil of those at most while attack you. It takes him 7 days to rebuild. In those 7 days he gets back to 2k turns also. He does it again to somebody else after his farming run next week. Yes it happens, just because it isn't happening to you doesn't mean it should be happening. Btw under my suggestion, you'd recover in 6 days, you were 4 weeks behind being the top dog (if everyone went on vacation mode except you, you'd be draw strongest player), now you are 5 weeks behind...better luck next time. Don't worry he can pay you another visit again next week, doesn't cost him anything. With my suggestion u can try descend him, pay back may be worth it for 7 days, you just wouldn't risk it for another 21 days of production. This is based on a true story.

Cyberblade, Munchy's idea is looking into the future...over a year into the future when people need 2 billion worth of planets to farm. It is intended to hurt people that are only just above 2 billion planets and then get knocked down, ie larger sniper accounts. I do not agree with this, everyone should be treated equally. This isn't a thread to limit sniper accounts ability to farm, it's about making it so larger players can fight back when they are being attacked. I retaliate anyways, in 2 days when a sniper account reascends I'm going to lose at least 500mil planets. That's a week and a half production.

[avdk6]

Wouldn't this also help them if they were over the limit and lost a lot of assassins through attacking others? Say if they lost 2 mil assassins per attack, and then they gain them back quicker, it means they can start doing it again sooner.

[Munchy]

Wouldn't this also help them if they were over the limit and lost a lot of assassins through attacking others? Say if they lost 2 mil assassins per attack, and then they gain them back quicker, it means they can start doing it again sooner.

That was another reason for my suggestion. If they are attacking it will take them longer to get back. I specifically mentioned that it would hurt snipers, but it would also prevent big accounts from massing without thought.(as much anyway)

[chargin]

yes it does if they lose enough, remember it's their max which would have been last register 6 hours ago.

Munchy how would your suggestion stop big accounts attacking people?

I don't see anything wrong with big accounts being able to attack smaller accounts. Big accounts won't do it for nothing because they stand to lose a lot and they are also trying to improve their accounts.

[Munchy]

It wouldn't stop them really, but at the moment I am not warmongering over there as much as I did when I was smaller. The reason being that it takes me abit longer to get back now when I am counter massed (like a week or two instead of a day or two when I was smaller). But essentially a big account that was hit would have a choice, they could do nothing and fly back up to the limit again and start adding more time to their 'timer' or they could duke it out and fight, but run the risk of having their max reduced. (Mind you, in this time these top accounts would be making over 100 mil a day, so it would take alot to stay down anyway). Essentially my idea would make it less likely that an account with a max of 5 billion would come into existence with the pure purpose of destruction, being able to go from 0 planets to 5 bil in a month (around 200 mil UP per day, which I am guessing a few have now in total).

A normal account that was just hit with my idea wouldn't have any problem getting back though, as chances are they would have several weeks saved up atleast, and it would only take them a few days to get back.

[Lord_Zeus]

I think this idea has merits, I think its slightly too drastic though, I'd settle for perhaps 1/2 of what your max was over the 2 bil cap full growth to. (or mabye 2/3 as your growth is slower in the last 1/3 than it is in the rest of your recovery.

aka, you made it to 5 bil, got knocked down to 1 bil, your max before the annoying thing kicked in would be 3.5 bil. (2 bil plus 5bil/2)

This would allow you to recover and fight but also give your opponent a chance as well as helping to slow the server down.

[~Tarkin~]

To be honest I am not really close to having to deal with this problem (Your Physical Expanse 252,041,794 Planets) but hopefully in the future I will be there. I like the idea of size limits, it allows me as a smaller player to close the gap between the larger players, but at the same time I think something could be done to make it easier for the larger players (hopefully me one day) to recover. I like a lot of the ideas so far and I think a few small changes to see how it works might be better than one major change.