Should ppl who don't play the game be leading the community?

[smooshable]

Well, technically Pastafarianism (Atheists) are one of the top 3 Religions. I certainly don't have a bias against Pastafarians as I myself am non-religious. I agree that rule needs looking into to be fairer. As for ingame accounts. We get critisized regularly for HAVING ingame acocunts. Never going to please everyone. I know it's not a perfect solution but unfortunately, it's just going to be up to individual mods to decide to play or not.

For your interest here is the top 22 religions by population. I'd be surprised if more than 10 of them are represented within this community. I'm not really sure it would cause that much chaos to allow them to post.

#1 Christianity: 2.1 billion
#2 Islam: 1.5 billion
#3 Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
#4 Hinduism: 900 million
#5 Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
#6 Buddhism: 376 million
#7 primal-indigenous: 300 million
#8 African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
#9 Sikhism: 23 million
#10 Juche: 19 million
#11 Spiritism: 15 million
#12 Judaism: 14 million
#13 Baha'i: 7 million
#14 Jainism: 4.2 million
#15 Shinto: 4 million
#16 Cao Dai: 4 million
#17 Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
#18 Tenrikyo: 2 million
#19 Neo-Paganism: 1 million
#20 Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
#21 Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
#22 Scientology: 500 thousand

(http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html 2007)

[buck]

#7 primal-indigenous: 300 million

I must learn more about that...

[Mordack]

I think those of you who actually do have in-game accounts would do well to curtail the patronizing manner in which you're addressing and 'hugging' someone from my alliance.

[SlimD]

#4 Hinduism: 900 million
#6 Buddhism: 376 million

Wow, i figured #4 would be #1.

Thanks, I learned something on these forums today.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Just curious, was this started because the Flying Spaghetti Monster thread was closed?

[Mystake]

rofl scientology at the bottom of the list...


for real though... there's always been a question of accountability and we HAVE seen mods (digi) get upset for being massed in game (FS too actually). On that note we've seen people claim bias.

I don't think you need an ingame account to be biased but I definitly think it helps.

[Juliette]

While the forum management often seems to ignore rule violations by moderators, I would love to just pay them a visit in game when they blatantly screw up so there is at least some form of justice.

Shouldn't this be a community forum FOR the community and managed BY the community rather than a place where some power mad kids abuse their powers knowing full well that we can't take away their toy?

Jason himself decided he wanted a mod and admin team. You know this as you were once part of them and almost was part of them again

Are you saying Geisha won't become a mod again?
If you ask me, that's a shame. But you didn't ask me.. and I am only interpreting your words here.
I just hope it was of her own wish, not forcibly. After all, despite our differences, she would be a new (to this particular team-setup), yet experienced (to the function) voice on the choir of the Team.



As for the rest, I noticed Semper had a proper view on the matter at hand.
For now, until I have formulated a better reply, I will agree with his words.

[REK]

Me and RepliJake dont play any more so whuts the point

[Severian]

Few things:

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
For Forums/Ingame connection:

You had Mods gaining ingame titles for forum works.
You had Tok'ra lose his Ingame due to wrongs on forums.
You had DaDigi gain new ID Ingame after decieving on Forums.

Few other cases but as far as i'm concerned, that means that there is some linkage between the two no matter how much it is hammered in that they are seperate as an excuse to avoid responcibility or owning up. It's just not practical having them completely seperate as unique cases come up in which that boundry must be crossed but in doing so you create selective connectivity.

Conclusion: Both good and bad but overall necessary.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Spamming

Despite a mod having just made a thread about spamming general (Tanith?), you have mods blatently spamming general and when they do, its as a user so that as a mod they don't have to actually set a standard or a good example for others to follow.

Any failings can be thrown on, I did it as a user excuse. However we know from past experience that seperating the two or having anonomyous modding does not work and so this is something we just have to live with.

The unfortunate part is that the mods have no set responcibilities or rules written down for the community, nor a set standard to follow. They have the right to correct wrongs where they see them on forums but not the responcibility to themselves be judged properly (requiring massive forum uproar for anything to be done). Sure we can say but i modded this mod just then, but if you look at the track record, there is certainly a difference in punishment between a mod doing wrong and a user doing wrong.

Hate to say it, but in regards to this, Tok'ra was completly right. General is not defined well. It is up to the user to somehow find a loophole to link it to sgw and normally only the mods have the power for their threads to stay in that section. It's too subjective (To the OPs view) at the moment and needs an objective description so threads are more easily identified and clear cut whether they belong somewhere or not.

Conclusion: Ideals must have some give to practicality in regards to mod/user seperation and there is always a necessary evil to be endured for the greater good. Some clearer responcibilites and definitions would do wonders and avoid threads such as these from recurring.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Religion

This is a tough nut and again pure ideals must give way to practicality. Are there more Christians/Muslims/Secular in the world than anybody else? Yes. Does the very nature of belief [in god or in no god] contradict and oppose every other belief in that yours is right and theirs may or may not be on the right track but still not entirely right like yours? Yes.

Christmas and Easter have been adopted by the secular body, modified and advertsied/capitialised on for profits and as such can be seen to defile Christian holy days. So talking about presents/easter eggs can be offensive. Likewise talking about God(s), miricles and faith can seem absurd and offensive to a scientific mind whose forced to observe such practices and accept it/have it imposed on his society.

In essence, clutching at strings and technicalities doesn't really work with Religion as you can literally draw upon anything and there will be a case study and material and evience enough for you to say you are offended. Due to the very nature of beliefs, people if they mean it or just revving things up can make up a case out of anything and due to this, the ideals and absolute tolerance for religions (both God(s) and Secular) must give way to practicality.

Conclusion: Again, Ideals must give way to practicality. Any faith whether religious or not can see something contradictory that works against their beliefs and because it is so broad and can apply to absolutely anything, must give way to what is practical to the greater good.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Biased/Mod Massing

Have we seen a biased administrative who favoured certain people ingame? Yes.
Have we seen the team in the mod section making jokes at users behind their backs? Yes.
Have we seen Biased Users who are against the administration and stirring despite lacking a substantial argument? Yes.
Have we seen the users in forums and private mediusm making jokes at the mods behind their backs? Yes.

If a User does something wrong on forums, he gets warned. Action is swift and subjective.

If a mod does something wrong, (s)he gets complained about. Action is not so swift and inner circle style friendships of not doing anything about each other resulted in the creation of the Ombudsman. If you don't get a satisfactory responce from a mod, use the Ombudsman. Everyone fought so long and hard for it and now its entirely ignored and that people are complaining about mods not doing anything instead of contacting the right people/procedure?

Self explainatiry.

Conclusion: Certain users will pick on certain mods and certain mods will pick on certain users. Humans are subjective no matter how hard they try not to be. Thats why social infrastructure is in place. Use it. If there is a weakness, provide constructive critisism, not general critisism.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Food for thought.

~Sev.

[agapooka]

People used to complain that the mods played the game...



You'll never please everyone, but you can annoy and anger everyone. If one wishes to succeed at something in life, I'm afraid they would have better chances with the latter.

On another note, I believe that the term "leading the forum" is the product of flawed thinking. The admin is not meant to lead the forum, but to manage it. If he's suicidal now with his current load... it could be that he's consciously not fulfilling the expectation of being the Great Inca Demi-God of the Sun you all want him to be... but would hate him for being

[Juliette]

Great Caesar's Ghost, talk about hitting the nails on the head.
Nice Pooks. You basically said what Semper said. So again, I agree.

And yet again .. Severian .. makes me..

[*zesh*]

aurrrrriiiiiiiiiielllllllllllllllllllllllll

do you have a def yet?

[geisha]

Few things:

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
For Forums/Ingame connection:

You had Mods gaining ingame titles for forum works.
You had Tok'ra lose his Ingame due to wrongs on forums.
You had DaDigi gain new ID Ingame after decieving on Forums.

Few other cases but as far as i'm concerned, that means that there is some linkage between the two no matter how much it is hammered in that they are seperate as an excuse to avoid responcibility or owning up. It's just not practical having them completely seperate as unique cases come up in which that boundry must be crossed but in doing so you create selective connectivity.

Conclusion: Both good and bad but overall necessary.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Spamming

Despite a mod having just made a thread about spamming general (Tanith?), you have mods blatently spamming general and when they do, its as a user so that as a mod they don't have to actually set a standard or a good example for others to follow.

Any failings can be thrown on, I did it as a user excuse. However we know from past experience that seperating the two or having anonomyous modding does not work and so this is something we just have to live with.

The unfortunate part is that the mods have no set responcibilities or rules written down for the community, nor a set standard to follow. They have the right to correct wrongs where they see them on forums but not the responcibility to themselves be judged properly (requiring massive forum uproar for anything to be done). Sure we can say but i modded this mod just then, but if you look at the track record, there is certainly a difference in punishment between a mod doing wrong and a user doing wrong.

Hate to say it, but in regards to this, Tok'ra was completly right. General is not defined well. It is up to the user to somehow find a loophole to link it to sgw and normally only the mods have the power for their threads to stay in that section. It's too subjective (To the OPs view) at the moment and needs an objective description so threads are more easily identified and clear cut whether they belong somewhere or not.

Conclusion: Ideals must have some give to practicality in regards to mod/user seperation and there is always a necessary evil to be endured for the greater good. Some clearer responcibilites and definitions would do wonders and avoid threads such as these from recurring.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Religion

This is a tough nut and again pure ideals must give way to practicality. Are there more Christians/Muslims/Secular in the world than anybody else? Yes. Does the very nature of belief [in god or in no god] contradict and oppose every other belief in that yours is right and theirs may or may not be on the right track but still not entirely right like yours? Yes.

Christmas and Easter have been adopted by the secular body, modified and advertsied/capitialised on for profits and as such can be seen to defile Christian holy days. So talking about presents/easter eggs can be offensive. Likewise talking about God(s), miricles and faith can seem absurd and offensive to a scientific mind whose forced to observe such practices and accept it/have it imposed on his society.

In essence, clutching at strings and technicalities doesn't really work with Religion as you can literally draw upon anything and there will be a case study and material and evience enough for you to say you are offended. Due to the very nature of beliefs, people if they mean it or just revving things up can make up a case out of anything and due to this, the ideals and absolute tolerance for religions (both God(s) and Secular) must give way to practicality.

Conclusion: Again, Ideals must give way to practicality. Any faith whether religious or not can see something contradictory that works against their beliefs and because it is so broad and can apply to absolutely anything, must give way to what is practical to the greater good.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Biased/Mod Massing

Have we seen a biased administrative who favoured certain people ingame? Yes.
Have we seen the team in the mod section making jokes at users behind their backs? Yes.
Have we seen Biased Users who are against the administration and stirring despite lacking a substantial argument? Yes.
Have we seen the users in forums and private mediusm making jokes at the mods behind their backs? Yes.

If a User does something wrong on forums, he gets warned. Action is swift and subjective.

If a mod does something wrong, (s)he gets complained about. Action is not so swift and inner circle style friendships of not doing anything about each other resulted in the creation of the Ombudsman. If you don't get a satisfactory responce from a mod, use the Ombudsman. Everyone fought so long and hard for it and now its entirely ignored and that people are complaining about mods not doing anything instead of contacting the right people/procedure?

Self explainatiry.

Conclusion: Certain users will pick on certain mods and certain mods will pick on certain users. Humans are subjective no matter how hard they try not to be. Thats why social infrastructure is in place. Use it. If there is a weakness, provide constructive critisism, not general critisism.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Food for thought.

~Sev.

I think you are my new hero!

[Iƒrit]

Few things:

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
For Forums/Ingame connection:

You had Mods gaining ingame titles for forum works.
You had Tok'ra lose his Ingame due to wrongs on forums.
You had DaDigi gain new ID Ingame after decieving on Forums.

Few other cases but as far as i'm concerned, that means that there is some linkage between the two no matter how much it is hammered in that they are seperate as an excuse to avoid responcibility or owning up. It's just not practical having them completely seperate as unique cases come up in which that boundry must be crossed but in doing so you create selective connectivity.

Conclusion: Both good and bad but overall necessary.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Spamming

Despite a mod having just made a thread about spamming general (Tanith?), you have mods blatently spamming general and when they do, its as a user so that as a mod they don't have to actually set a standard or a good example for others to follow.

Any failings can be thrown on, I did it as a user excuse. However we know from past experience that seperating the two or having anonomyous modding does not work and so this is something we just have to live with.

The unfortunate part is that the mods have no set responcibilities or rules written down for the community, nor a set standard to follow. They have the right to correct wrongs where they see them on forums but not the responcibility to themselves be judged properly (requiring massive forum uproar for anything to be done). Sure we can say but i modded this mod just then, but if you look at the track record, there is certainly a difference in punishment between a mod doing wrong and a user doing wrong.

Hate to say it, but in regards to this, Tok'ra was completly right. General is not defined well. It is up to the user to somehow find a loophole to link it to sgw and normally only the mods have the power for their threads to stay in that section. It's too subjective (To the OPs view) at the moment and needs an objective description so threads are more easily identified and clear cut whether they belong somewhere or not.

Conclusion: Ideals must have some give to practicality in regards to mod/user seperation and there is always a necessary evil to be endured for the greater good. Some clearer responcibilites and definitions would do wonders and avoid threads such as these from recurring.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Religion

This is a tough nut and again pure ideals must give way to practicality. Are there more Christians/Muslims/Secular in the world than anybody else? Yes. Does the very nature of belief [in god or in no god] contradict and oppose every other belief in that yours is right and theirs may or may not be on the right track but still not entirely right like yours? Yes.

Christmas and Easter have been adopted by the secular body, modified and advertsied/capitialised on for profits and as such can be seen to defile Christian holy days. So talking about presents/easter eggs can be offensive. Likewise talking about God(s), miricles and faith can seem absurd and offensive to a scientific mind whose forced to observe such practices and accept it/have it imposed on his society.

In essence, clutching at strings and technicalities doesn't really work with Religion as you can literally draw upon anything and there will be a case study and material and evience enough for you to say you are offended. Due to the very nature of beliefs, people if they mean it or just revving things up can make up a case out of anything and due to this, the ideals and absolute tolerance for religions (both God(s) and Secular) must give way to practicality.

Conclusion: Again, Ideals must give way to practicality. Any faith whether religious or not can see something contradictory that works against their beliefs and because it is so broad and can apply to absolutely anything, must give way to what is practical to the greater good.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Biased/Mod Massing

Have we seen a biased administrative who favoured certain people ingame? Yes.
Have we seen the team in the mod section making jokes at users behind their backs? Yes.
Have we seen Biased Users who are against the administration and stirring despite lacking a substantial argument? Yes.
Have we seen the users in forums and private mediusm making jokes at the mods behind their backs? Yes.

If a User does something wrong on forums, he gets warned. Action is swift and subjective.

If a mod does something wrong, (s)he gets complained about. Action is not so swift and inner circle style friendships of not doing anything about each other resulted in the creation of the Ombudsman. If you don't get a satisfactory responce from a mod, use the Ombudsman. Everyone fought so long and hard for it and now its entirely ignored and that people are complaining about mods not doing anything instead of contacting the right people/procedure?

Self explainatiry.

Conclusion: Certain users will pick on certain mods and certain mods will pick on certain users. Humans are subjective no matter how hard they try not to be. Thats why social infrastructure is in place. Use it. If there is a weakness, provide constructive critisism, not general critisism.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Food for thought.

~Sev.

This is quite the post, you are very talented with your words. Until I read this I wasn't quite all for it. But you certainly put things into perspective.

[agapooka]

It would be nice if people used their energy to denounce the much more corrupt ACTUAL government and police force of their countries. I don't know about you, but they taser everyone they please while spreading the lies that it's non lethal, when in fact 250-300 people have died after being tasered by police in the past 4 years in North America.

That said, excellent post, Sev, but unfortunately for you, this is a private business' property. One could argue the same of countries; however, and the only reason I brought a link from real life is that I've always had that completely irrational idea that it's more important than this game. The thing is, people tend to react to this game more than to the former. I'll never understand why. It's boring as hell.

(Although one could also make the argument that hell is not boring at all, and that the consistent pain therein endured is entertainment enough for those masochists out there.)

That said, I'll repeat myself again. Myself.

I mean...

I believe that the term "leading the forum" is the product of flawed thinking. The (forum) admin is not meant to lead the forum, but to manage it. If he's suicidal now with his current load... it could be that he's consciously not fulfilling the expectation of being the Great Inca Demi-God of the Sun you all want him to be... but would hate him for being

I hate to say the obvious, but leading and managing are two different things. The former has the role of the forum admin as a guiding force for a given, united group through a certain process, whereas in the latter, his role is simply to maintain the environment wherein various diverse groups of people meet. Despite this, it has always seemed to me that leading has been a mostly unspoken expectation that people have had. I hate to break it to you, but if that's what you want, you might as well leave, 'cause you ain't gonna get it.

When I brought up a little flash of real life earlier, it's because I also believe that people are projecting it into this game and community. This game is getting almost as bureaucratical as the lame world around me and damn you bastards that want the same thing for the community

K THX tschüss