Should ppl who don't play the game be leading the community?

[Severian]

That said, excellent post, Sev, but unfortunately for you, this is a private business' property.

Pfft! Whose going to let something as small and unimportant as facts get in the way of a decent (post) story

This game is getting almost as bureaucratical as the lame world around me and damn you bastards that want the same thing for the community

People will be people ingame or out and it shows that we bring part of ourselves to the forum personia, even if we deny it. Simply put - whether intentionally/directly or not, create our own enviroment in this digial realm and its scary how close it mimics the world around us.

However that aside, 'Great Inca Demi-God of the Sun' has a certain ring to it...

*waits for the next set of Ascension names*

[agapooka]

The Demi God's gonna wonder why he's not even half a Living God, who, by lacking the prefix "demi," is presumed to be a full god.

[TheRook]

to be honest I see no reason why a mod should have to play or not...

really all a mod should be on here to do is mod the forum... not the game...

Unless this has changed I believe admin Mark doesnt have a game account... does that make him unfit to be an admin of the game? after all he doesnt play it so why should be be able to administer it??

To be honest the problem likely caused is by that of mods who play the game perhaps this can influence their judgement but I'm pretty sure when people put their mod hats on for a post they ignore there in game persona and do their job.

I know I've had to ask people in my alliance to calm down on war threads so they didnt get too heated and insults start flying... I've also made the same comments to people we have been fighting against...

a job as a mod is to moderate the forums...
The mod may play the game... but that shouldnt effect what he/she does on the forums
the mod may not play the game... that really shouldn't have any effect on telling someone to stop hurling insults etc.

Over the past few months I have seen more and more threads where people in the community are complaining about mods etc... Fair enough thats their opinions... but there is a difference between complaining about something constantly and not being constructive about how to make changes. but thats an entirely different topic so I'll ignore where I could run off on a tangent with that...

TheRook
posted as a forum member and as a mod

[TheRook]

Few things:

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
For Forums/Ingame connection:

You had Mods gaining ingame titles for forum works.
You had Tok'ra lose his Ingame due to wrongs on forums.
You had DaDigi gain new ID Ingame after decieving on Forums.

Few other cases but as far as i'm concerned, that means that there is some linkage between the two no matter how much it is hammered in that they are seperate as an excuse to avoid responcibility or owning up. It's just not practical having them completely seperate as unique cases come up in which that boundry must be crossed but in doing so you create selective connectivity.

Conclusion: Both good and bad but overall necessary.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

This originally started as a thank you to mods for working on the forums... it has been updated for those who have played for a long time... I think it should be 2 years not 3 personally then I would have got it anyhow but its a nice perk for me and a thank you from admin for me doing what I hope is perceived as a good job... I wouldnt accept goods etc but a bit of fun with a custom title is nice
Not wanting to dwell on this but Tok'ra had repeat offences and to be fair its admins game and he can stop anyone playing if he wants...
didnt know about dadigi but to be honest I dont overly care... its just another ID/player who is probably out growing me...

Spamming

Despite a mod having just made a thread about spamming general (Tanith?), you have mods blatently spamming general and when they do, its as a user so that as a mod they don't have to actually set a standard or a good example for others to follow.

Any failings can be thrown on, I did it as a user excuse. However we know from past experience that seperating the two or having anonomyous modding does not work and so this is something we just have to live with.

The unfortunate part is that the mods have no set responcibilities or rules written down for the community, nor a set standard to follow. They have the right to correct wrongs where they see them on forums but not the responcibility to themselves be judged properly (requiring massive forum uproar for anything to be done). Sure we can say but i modded this mod just then, but if you look at the track record, there is certainly a difference in punishment between a mod doing wrong and a user doing wrong.

Hate to say it, but in regards to this, Tok'ra was completly right. General is not defined well. It is up to the user to somehow find a loophole to link it to sgw and normally only the mods have the power for their threads to stay in that section. It's too subjective (To the OPs view) at the moment and needs an objective description so threads are more easily identified and clear cut whether they belong somewhere or not.

Conclusion: Ideals must have some give to practicality in regards to mod/user seperation and there is always a necessary evil to be endured for the greater good. Some clearer responcibilites and definitions would do wonders and avoid threads such as these from recurring.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

I created a thread in general which I thought went there about Gary Gygax(co-creator of DnD Roleplaying) which I would have thought suited SGW general as SGW is a roleplay game... I got hammered by people by going here is a mod doing stupid crap posting in teh wrong place... spamming this that and the other... it was my first post in General in about 2 months... it was eventually moved and no doubt has died in this that and the other...

I have had my stuff moved by other mods which is fair enough I dont complain they know what they are doing and they do it... the problem is as soon as someone sees a colourful name they assume they are in mod mode... and as such should be infallible... but I rarely post as a mod in anywhere but the ascension forum... as that is my section and I guard it heavily from an invading squirrel army... but I will post in other threads just saying hey watch the insults and calm down a little again most of the time doing it as a player but with a hint of mod to it... I try not to spam I keep that for our alliance forum...

Religion

This is a tough nut and again pure ideals must give way to practicality. Are there more Christians/Muslims/Secular in the world than anybody else? Yes. Does the very nature of belief [in god or in no god] contradict and oppose every other belief in that yours is right and theirs may or may not be on the right track but still not entirely right like yours? Yes.

Christmas and Easter have been adopted by the secular body, modified and advertsied/capitialised on for profits and as such can be seen to defile Christian holy days. So talking about presents/easter eggs can be offensive. Likewise talking about God(s), miricles and faith can seem absurd and offensive to a scientific mind whose forced to observe such practices and accept it/have it imposed on his society.

In essence, clutching at strings and technicalities doesn't really work with Religion as you can literally draw upon anything and there will be a case study and material and evience enough for you to say you are offended. Due to the very nature of beliefs, people if they mean it or just revving things up can make up a case out of anything and due to this, the ideals and absolute tolerance for religions (both God(s) and Secular) must give way to practicality.

Conclusion: Again, Ideals must give way to practicality. Any faith whether religious or not can see something contradictory that works against their beliefs and because it is so broad and can apply to absolutely anything, must give way to what is practical to the greater good.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

I think we should keep all religion out of the forums as it can just cause to many problems... (this is me as a player)

to Quote Dogma (the movie)
"It doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith."

This quote is my ultimate fave... and I prefer the IDEA that religions should be the basis for an idea not to be believed in so much that everything else is wrong... this is my personal opinion as ME (Andy Deroeck) not as TheRook or as a Mod of these forums... if you choose to hate me for my personal opinion so be it... it wont stop me modding the ascended forum as I do now or from playing the game...

"Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the **Filtered** that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant. "

Biased/Mod Massing

Have we seen a biased administrative who favoured certain people ingame? Yes.
Have we seen the team in the mod section making jokes at users behind their backs? Yes.
Have we seen Biased Users who are against the administration and stirring despite lacking a substantial argument? Yes.
Have we seen the users in forums and private mediusm making jokes at the mods behind their backs? Yes.

If a User does something wrong on forums, he gets warned. Action is swift and subjective.

If a mod does something wrong, (s)he gets complained about. Action is not so swift and inner circle style friendships of not doing anything about each other resulted in the creation of the Ombudsman. If you don't get a satisfactory responce from a mod, use the Ombudsman. Everyone fought so long and hard for it and now its entirely ignored and that people are complaining about mods not doing anything instead of contacting the right people/procedure?

Self explainatiry.

Conclusion: Certain users will pick on certain mods and certain mods will pick on certain users. Humans are subjective no matter how hard they try not to be. Thats why social infrastructure is in place. Use it. If there is a weakness, provide constructive critisism, not general critisism.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

I agree with that... you cant help human nature... but constructive criticism is far better than just criticism I agree 150million %

TheRook

[GeneralChaos]

to be honest I see no reason why a mod should have to play or not...

really all a mod should be on here to do is mod the forum... not the game...

Unless this has changed I believe admin Mark doesnt have a game account... does that make him unfit to be an admin of the game? after all he doesnt play it so why should be be able to administer it??

A game account that we know of.

[Wolf359]

Looking solely at the topic title - mods do not lead the community; they police the community forum as required by the game owner. It is not their remit to know what is best (or not) for the game, nor is membership of the community restricted to only those that play the game, and a knowledge of the in-game goings on should not be required to carry out the duties of a forum mod.

As for what Semper said:

Now...on to the point of the topic. If anything mods without accounts would be the best mods as they would in no way be able to be intimidated, unless of course they are actually concerned what everyone thinks about them. If they abuse or misuse their power, report it to their boss. If this is not effective go higher. Its made a million times more complicated when people start arguing and bickering over forum issues and then start to try and go on at the 'offenders' in game.

Well said! There have been mods/admins in the past who haven't simultaneously played the game - and, ironically, they were not criticised by non-mod members of the community (in fact they were supported), but were criticised by a minority of other mods/admins when they took exception to certain actions of said mods/admins (actions which had no foundation, and which certainly were not in the best interests of the community) and took steps to put things right.

Indeed, I have seen a number of instances recently, where mods have backed away from modding because they are too involved through teh fact that they play!

Semper is also correct that things are a lot simpler, and get solved a lot faster, if abuse/misuse of mod power (and their is certainly a lot less of it now than there was say a year or so ago) is reported properly, instead of some kind of vendetta being brought up at the slightlest transgression.

Bottom line - there is no preference of whether a mod should or should not also be a player - as in order to enforce the forum rules, no specific game knowledge is required.

[GeneralChaos]

The only mod that should play the game active, is the one that mods that bug section, how can they post info to help people if they don't know the game that the person it talking about.

If you still think even a mod who doesnt play the game should mod the bugs section, just delete it all, and make 1 sticky topic that says,

Got a problem, email admin.

[Wolf359]

I know what you're saying - but....

The point of modding the bugs section is not to help people out with the bugs. Mods cannot do that anyway because they do not have access to the game code - and bugs originate from incorrect/corrupted/overlooked game code. The only jobs mods have to do (even in the bugs section) is to ensure the forum rules are followed.

[GeneralChaos]

Have you read that section recently, 8 outta 10 of the "bugs" are simple mistakes that people just didn't realize, the one that starry had was a little different for example, but the co move alliance trick worked for her, to many simple answer threads are being answered with, email admin.........

However i suggested it in the mods section, so lets see what happens.

[Wolf359]

Have you read that section recently, 8 outta 10 of the "bugs" are simple mistakes that people just didn't realize, the one that starry had was a little different for example, but the co move alliance trick worked for her, to many simple answer threads are being answered with, email admin.........

However i suggested it in the mods section, so lets see what happens.

Okay - point taken - fair one.

(Although, it should be said that the Bug Section is mainly for the reporting of said bugs - anyone can answer, and 9 times out of 10 a non-mod will answer before a Mod (or Forum).)

[Acronon]

Honestly, I liked it better when the community choose those to be their voice as Mods under the admin supported Super Mods.

If we didn't like the job being done then we voted him out and got someone else to take his place, easy.

[Wolf359]

To be honest Acronon, I think only race mods have ever been voted in - and even then, no mod has ever been voted in as a 'voice of the community' (or, if they have, then they were voted in under a false pretense, as it is not the remit of a mod to be a voice of the community).

Even as far back when I first became a mod in 2005 (when the game was still embryonic), I (or any of the other mods) weren't voted in by the community - we were appointed by the Admins/Supermods. I certainly can't recall any mods, other than race mods, being voted in.

Besides, as many people have pointed out in the past (and would no doubt do so again), it would end up being a popularity contest, and the best person would more than likely not get the job - and I think we've already seen evidence of that this year.

[agapooka]

Never give a group of people what it wants, because you'll be blamed by those same people if it goes wrong, and it undubitably will.


Meetings
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Acronon]

Well Wolf, I was a race mod, admin section head and I modded a few other spots in my time here and I was voted into place for all the mod positions I had, either by a general vote or by a mod team vote but the idea is the same.

[Wolf359]

Yes - and No , since the initial statement was regarding mods being voted in by the community. Agreed that candidates for mod positions other than race mods are sometimes voted upon by the mods, but usually said candidates have been put forward by the mods when a need has been identified.