Real Religion... ready to vent

[HairyMehoff]

ok so after reading a few posts here and there that totally offend my personal religious views, i've decided to post here instead of starting arguments that will get locked elsewhere..

so my challenge is... other than the three main religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism)... argue that ANY other type is a true religion and why it is so.. (e.g. buddhism, hinduism, etc)

i of course will be taking the side of the real religions..(posted above)


no personal insults shall be tolerated, but feel free to bash my views if you must; I know they are the right ones and i shall try to persuade you as well

[~Tarkin~]

I know they are the right ones and i shall try to persuade you as well

[Thade]

so my challenge is... other than the three main religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism)... argue that ANY other type is a true religion and why it is so.. (e.g. buddhism, hinduism, etc)

i of course will be taking the side of the real religions..(posted above)

You have already invalidated your entire theory. If they were "real" religions then what they preach would be "true". Therefore they are mutually exclusive because they each claim to be the sole "real" religion. I can therefore argue that the Flying Spaghetti Monster* is a proper and valid church on the above stated argument. Thank you.

*http://www.venganza.org/

P.S. I'm a bit too tired at the moment go into full details. Perhaps I shall begin to formulate a full and extensive thought tomorrow after a good night's sleep.

[HairyMehoff]

the three religions, that I defend, however all worship the same God. The differ in method and of course on the importance of Jesus and other figures, but since they worship the same God, i do not see much difference between them.

since we cannot know what is real, we can only choose to believe what we want, therefore, sumething cannot be universally true. believeing in a flying spaghetti monster is just childish. i really hope you are just using that as a metaphor for cults.
what's the saying? "you cannot prove anything, you can only disprove it" sumn like that.


but i was angry when i wrote my first post, so let me restate what I meant. I don't mean to offend anyone, and i wont try to. but if i offend you with my beliefs, well, theres nothing i can do about that.

i want to use this debate as practice in strenghtening my own arguments, as well as getting a view of opposing arguments.

[~Tarkin~]

however all worship the same God

Not true at all.

since we cannot know what is real, we can only choose to believe what we want, therefore, sumething cannot be universally true. believeing in a flying spaghetti monster is just childish. i really hope you are just using that as a metaphor for cults.
what's the saying? "you cannot prove anything, you can only disprove it" sumn like that.

That's just silly and ridiculous logic.

[HairyMehoff]

please elaborate.... an shot at sum1's argument without prvoding a counter argument is just pointless, as it does not help to further the debate


christianity, judaism, and islam do worship the same God. that is why we all observe jerusalem as a holy city. why the old testament is observed b all three. their methods of worhsip, views of jesus, muhammed, and other prophets are just a douple diferences between them

[Thade]

the three religions, that I defend, however all worship the same God. The differ in method and of course on the importance of Jesus and other figures, but since they worship the same God, i do not see much difference between them.

They in fact do not. One could argue that Christian's and Jews worship the same God, God the Father. However, Jews do not agree with the idea of Jesus being the Son of God, therefore a part of the Trinity which is God. Thus Jews by not acknowledging Jesus as part of the Trinity do not worship the same God as Christians. Next, we have the issue that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity.

Although Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, they reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, comparing it to polytheism. In Islamic theology, Jesus was just a man and not the son of God; God is described in a chapter (sura) of the Qur'an as "…God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#God
We can see there that by disagreeing with a basic tenet of the Christian and Jewish faith the Muslims do not in fact worship the same God.

. that is why we all observe jerusalem as a holy city. why the old testament is observed b all three. their methods of worhsip, views of jesus, muhammed, and other prophets are just a douple diferences between them

Muslims are the only one of those three religions that acknowledge Muhammed as a prophet. The Muslim view of Jerusalem extends from their belief that they are the true inheritors of Abraham's legacy. As well as it being the location of the Dome of the Rock. Due to a passage in the Qur'an they view that place as the third holiest site. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiest_sites_in_Islam#Masjid_Al-Aqsa.2C_Jerusalem They had no great event take place there as the Christians did, nor is it their ancestral home as it is for the Jews. It being third on their list shows the difference for them and the Jews who view Jerusalem as the holiest of cities. And well some Christians would argue that all places are equally holy because God is wherever two or three are gathered in his name, while other Christians would argue that Rome is the holiest of cities.

Muslims also believe that the Torah (Old Testament) and the Gospels, of the New Testament) were corrupted in both transcription and translation therefore while they may hold reverence for them they do not in fact believe what they say as those books disagree with the Qur'an. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_holy_books#Alteration_of_the_holy_books


Now, to the actual argument. To argue the validity of a religion other than those three.
I shall for this argument be upholding the tenets of Zoroastrianism.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastria ... d_cultures

Zoroastrianism is uniquely important in the history of religion because of its possible formative links to both Western and Eastern religious traditions. As "the oldest of the revealed creedal religions", Zoroastrianism "probably had more influence on mankind [sic] directly or indirectly than any other faith".

One could argue that Zoroastrianism is in fact the same religion because they worship the "same god" as the three you mention therefore validating it as an actual religion.
By accepting faiths that are fundamentally different and mutually exclusive you passively agree to accept nearly any faith.


Sidenote:

since we cannot know what is real, we can only choose to believe what we want, therefore, sumething cannot be universally true. believeing in a flying spaghetti monster is just childish. i really hope you are just using that as a metaphor for cults.
what's the saying? "you cannot prove anything, you can only disprove it" sumn like that.

There is no such thing as a white raven. Prove me wrong. Exercise in logic. Lastly, I do not argue with you in order to disprove your beliefs, I argue simply to help you better understand those beliefs and to be able to offer logical arguments for them. Those who never question their faith, or feel it is wrong to question their faith, are usually worried that close inspection of said faith would disprove it. As for the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), change his name to Jesus or God and what is the difference?

[~Zekk~]

What is the purpose of religion anyway? I mean, "To worship God and go to heaven" is an obvious answer, but is that really all you want?

Personally, I believe the goal of any path should be wisdom and enlightenment, among other things just as valuable. That said, why does there have to be any "real" religion at all? Aren't we all aiming for the same goal, while walking different paths (Like driving. Many roads to take, one destination...usually)?

And why do you want to go to heaven anyway? Heaven and Hell are just places. Like two cells of the leaf of a plant are just two "places". Those two cells are not all there is to that leaf, that leaf is not all there is to the stem, the stem is not all there is to the flower--and then, beyond the flower is the garden, and beyond the garden is other gardens, and beyond that theres still more!

But in the end, if you only follow your path because you want to go to heaven out of fear for hell (which, in my opinion, is rather silly, since fear [among other things] is only self-doubt in disguise), then you are losing the true meaning of your path.

Don't mind me, though. I'm just a random passer by, who happens to see things a little differently.

[Thor God Of War]

The main point of any religion,in my opinion, is to instill some level of fear into the populace. By doing this it creates a society whos acts will be mainly moral so as to prevent serious sociological breakdown. However as the conciousness evolves we are beginning (ever so slightly) to see religion as pointless or without real consequence hence the gradual breakdown of civil society so strict laws are now inplace to discourage violence and the concept of crime.

[~Zekk~]

The main point of any religion,in my opinion, is to instill some level of fear into the populace. By doing this it creates a society whos acts will be mainly moral so as to prevent serious sociological breakdown. However as the conciousness evolves we are beginning (ever so slightly) to see religion as pointless or without real consequence hence the gradual breakdown of civil society so strict laws are now inplace to discourage violence and the concept of crime.

Originally religion was a path to enlightenment. I agree, in most places most religions have just become ways to control the masses, but it wasn't always so.

[Thor God Of War]

Its is almost impossible to ascertain what the origins of religion were, but they have become so corrupt they cannot hope to give any guide to enlightenment. As for the future of religions, I forsee the fall of the major religions. To cope with a lack of guidance many cults will emerge causing absolute spiritual chaos.

[~Zekk~]

The occult, the real occult, isn't that bad. They just want to find enlightenment, and do so by taking a path that--due to religious influence--many people view in a negative light.

Now, there are a lot of radical idiots out there that make the bad name worse, but there always have been and always will be. Unfortunately, it's just the way things are for now.

[Eternal Usul]

I would like to point out, that before you can actually argue this...you must first actually define what a "religion" is...


As far as the topic's author has explained it...in order for a belief system to be a religion, it must worship his "god"...which is firstly egocentric, and secondly, utterly wrong...many nations recognize many religions that are vastly different in who/what/where/when/how they worship, regardless of whether or not they support the religion or not...

A George Washington University Paper on definition of Religion in U.S. Law:

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/articles/casino.htm


Suffice it to say, the belief in Judeo-christianic, or Islamic tradition is not how "Religion" is defined...


Rather it is generally accepted that a large number of individuals, with organized beliefs, is a religion...

[LadiesMan 217]

ok so after reading a few posts here and there that totally offend my personal religious views, i've decided to post here instead of starting arguments that will get locked elsewhere..

so my challenge is... other than the three main religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism)... argue that ANY other type is a true religion and why it is so.. (e.g. buddhism, hinduism, etc)

i of course will be taking the side of the real religions..(posted above)


no personal insults shall be tolerated, but feel free to bash my views if you must; I know they are the right ones and i shall try to persuade you as well

lol all i can say is LoL.. this kid made christinity, islam and judaism 'real' religions?? ... firstly, there is no such thing as a real religion because its a belif.. u cant say that wat u believe is true, otherwise ur just another ____..

secondly what happened to hindu.. over 1 bill earth pop is hindu.. and its not 'real"??

secondly islam and christinity were formed from judism thats y, they are catagorized togather... if u look they both rnt old and we know their origin. the other 2 hindu and judiasm are the once for which we do not know where tehy came from.. so lol get ur facts up first

[Phoenix of Terra]

There is a rough estimate of when/how Hinduism came about, as well as Judaism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hinduism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history

Sure, there is a lot of (for lack of a better word) myth involved, but it's a little farther along than no idea.