ban educating sig :D

Forum for all general ingame discussion.
Post Reply
Severian

Re: ban educating sig :D

weilandsmith wrote:massing is fine. raiding, attacking, stealing planets. fine. but when you say that you did this because you are educating people? i am attacking you because i am educating you? that's insulting.


There's a reason they have that saying:

"You never know what you have until it's gone."

A message generally tends to be dismissed and people do not take serious notice and require a defining wake-up call before they take something onboard. I hate to use worldly examples for an abstract war game but it is everywhere. People are usually lax and have a habit of ignoring all the warning signs and act only after something has happened rather then costly pre-emptive preventative measures.

If people lose a lot, they are made aware of just how significant the collateral they have. They learn something and were in fact educated and while a harsh education, it was an education none the less. People learn from their mistakes and there's no finer teacher then Mr Pain.

Loss is a very powerful catalyst for change. Loss tests us, puts us under duress and strain and through this adversity we show how strong we really are. I personally am thankful for the trials I’ve had to go through both in game and in life as it has made me the person I am today.

For some, it is a wakeup call for a change of tactics and methods in allocation of resources from perishable sources to non perishable sources. To judge the validility of their current gameplan and weigh up the costs for each action before commiting to it.

For others, it is a wakeup call for the drawbacks for making the numbers an emotional investment. It allows them to regain control of the game and for it to return as an outlet rather then a sanctuary they never want to leave and have become trapped in.

For others still it wakes them up to the fact that this is an abstract game. That wars do happen, that there are dangers out there and bad people and that they should never let their guard down. It puts the danger and the thrill back into the game and reminds them and all those who bore withness that the galaxy is a very unforgiving place.

For others still it evokes a change, directly letting them taste war and showing them things that they never had the courage to do for fear of loss. With that ice broken they may find revenge and an agressive playstyle more to their liking.

For others still it is a warning of what could happen to them. To make people whisper There but the grace of god go I. It allows them to see power and inspire them to rise to such heights, to be able to weild such divine justice casually and sets a milestone for them to reach.

For others still it is seen as an outrage and a catalyst to force people to band together. To work harder and form their own groups and coalitions and powers to combat such evil while defining themselves as the good guys.

Then there are those who cannot get over losing imaginary resources in which case I suggest a calculator with the +1 function as a safer substitute. The world isn't fair and its best you learn sooner rather then later.

'nuff said.
User avatar
bebita
Forum Zombie
Posts: 5852
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:40 am
Alliance: Familly
Race: brothers
ID: 0

Re: ban educating sig :D

lost after first word
you talk to much and for nothing
educating is wrong
nobody have the right to dictate others how to play
Spoiler
Image
Tziki wrote:
Bebita a known Spy from the server war, who joined TO under false pretences yet again has a filthy trick up his sleave. In fact it appears the Filth up his sleave is DDE and Mayhem. When confronted about them supporting Bebita and Rob3rt (as there were suspicions as to be a tiny account got his MS and Naq / Turns etc) neither deny their involved behind the scenes but instead hint towards it being a coincidence.
R8 wrote:the shock of seeing bebita in my attack logs after so long was too much to handle so I had to hit vac mode to try and recover for a few days

catch ya later :D
Severian

Re: ban educating sig :D

bebita wrote:lost after first word
you talk to much and for nothing
educating is wrong
nobody have the right to dictate others how to play


Oxymoron much?
User avatar
bebita
Forum Zombie
Posts: 5852
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:40 am
Alliance: Familly
Race: brothers
ID: 0

Re: ban educating sig :D

?
can someone translate?
Spoiler
Image
Tziki wrote:
Bebita a known Spy from the server war, who joined TO under false pretences yet again has a filthy trick up his sleave. In fact it appears the Filth up his sleave is DDE and Mayhem. When confronted about them supporting Bebita and Rob3rt (as there were suspicions as to be a tiny account got his MS and Naq / Turns etc) neither deny their involved behind the scenes but instead hint towards it being a coincidence.
R8 wrote:the shock of seeing bebita in my attack logs after so long was too much to handle so I had to hit vac mode to try and recover for a few days

catch ya later :D
RepliMagni
Forum Addict
Posts: 4158
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:29 am
Alliance: Loner :P
Race: NanoTiMaster
ID: 1908448

Re: ban educating sig :D

I think Sev's point is that by telling people they can't educate others you are dictating how others play ;)
Image
Skunky
Forum Elder
Posts: 2492
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:54 am
Alliance: EPA
Race: NanoTiSkunk
ID: 34220
Location: Fallen Skunk

Re: ban educating sig :D

Severian wrote:
bebita wrote:lost after first word
you talk to much and for nothing
educating is wrong
nobody have the right to dictate others how to play


Oxymoron much?

thats not quite an Oxymoron, :P

Its basically when you say something then contradict your self
Image

Image

Image
Replicator/NanoTiMaster Mod Colour
User avatar
bebita
Forum Zombie
Posts: 5852
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:40 am
Alliance: Familly
Race: brothers
ID: 0

Re: ban educating sig :D

where i contradict my self? :shock:
Spoiler
Image
Tziki wrote:
Bebita a known Spy from the server war, who joined TO under false pretences yet again has a filthy trick up his sleave. In fact it appears the Filth up his sleave is DDE and Mayhem. When confronted about them supporting Bebita and Rob3rt (as there were suspicions as to be a tiny account got his MS and Naq / Turns etc) neither deny their involved behind the scenes but instead hint towards it being a coincidence.
R8 wrote:the shock of seeing bebita in my attack logs after so long was too much to handle so I had to hit vac mode to try and recover for a few days

catch ya later :D
User avatar
weilandsmith
Forum Elder
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:57 pm
Race: Asgard
ID: 1994771

Re: ban educating sig :D

gee sev. i said massing is fine. if you left you're resources out in the open, then you deserve to be massed. i wasn't arguing about that. why are you changing the point of the argument? i said it was insulting.

this is what is happening:

zesh wrote:and also people with defences far to large for there armysize.


tekki wrote:so what exactly is 'to large for there armysize'?


blahh wrote:well obviusly theres not a set rule of whats right... its more of a judgement call..
but lets just say having 15mil army 7mil in defecne 5mil in spys is not the best choice to go with :)
@pungi: 1. its not an alliance thing, 2. its not about squashing the market, its mainly about fun, while serving a "good cause" too. Prices were driven down by 2 factors cheats, and ppl who only play this game for making $, imo both have no place doing here :) so while we get to have fun, we also target those, who need a lesson or 2 :)


these small group of bullies are forcing players to play the game their way. as you can see from the quotes above, they are trying to define actual game parameters according to their own interpretation and force feeding it on the rest of us. worse, they're the only ones who see these parameters. we don't. they're defining a standard set of rules that they want us to follow but we can't see it. and why should we follow their rules? its a free game right?

so what happens if we don't agree, they mass us. and then they tell us that we've been educated? that's BS and nothing more. its similar to saying because you did not do things my way, i mass you. now you've been educated.

don't you see that, sev? it's just plain wrong.

we're all here to enjoy the game. what the heck does it matter to you if 100 percent of my population is massable? if you think its stupid, then mass. but don't tell me that i've been educated afterwards. i have 100% def maybe because I'm paranoid or because i like it that way. You find it strange, attack me. But don't tell me that what I am doing is stupid. You might see having 100% defense as stupid, but i don't. why? because i may be paranoid. mass me, fine. but don't tell me that I'm stupid.

don't tell me that I am doing the wrong thing because it does not conform to your set of abstract rules. if you think it's wrong, then mass me. just don't tell me that it's against your rules. that i'm stupid. that i'm dumb. and don't add the last part about having been educated because it adds insult to injury.

now sev... don't go back to the resources argument. because i already said that you deserved to be massed or attacked or raided if you have all those resources out.
Image
Severian

Re: ban educating sig :D

bebita wrote:?
can someone translate?


ox·y·mo·ron

noun, plural

"A figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”"


A figure of speech in which the overall effect is self contradiction. In this case;

  • Education is Wrong [Dictating is right]
  • You have no right to dictate how others play. [Dictating is wrong]

That is, this thread and others like it are devoted to dictating how the educators should play and an example in your post is that you say educators are wrong while at the same time stating we have no right to judge others.

You are making a judgement while saying that judgements are wrong. A self contradiction although I admit, being 1 am and downstuck by fever I should have picked a more apt and clearer term.

Either way, that train of thought evokes the forced march down one side of a two way road I brought up earlier and boils down to my argument again.

Passive players dicate how agressive players should play far more often and as such are guilty of the very thing they accuse the educators of.

Edit: @weilandsmith

[spoiler]
weilandsmith wrote:gee sev. i said massing is fine. if you left you're resources out in the open, then you deserve to be massed. i wasn't arguing about that. why are you changing the point of the argument? i said it was insulting.

this is what is happening:

zesh wrote:and also people with defences far to large for there armysize.


tekki wrote:so what exactly is 'to large for there armysize'?


blahh wrote:well obviusly theres not a set rule of whats right... its more of a judgement call..
but lets just say having 15mil army 7mil in defecne 5mil in spys is not the best choice to go with :)
@pungi: 1. its not an alliance thing, 2. its not about squashing the market, its mainly about fun, while serving a "good cause" too. Prices were driven down by 2 factors cheats, and ppl who only play this game for making $, imo both have no place doing here :) so while we get to have fun, we also target those, who need a lesson or 2 :)


these small group of bullies are forcing players to play the game their way. as you can see from the quotes above, they are trying to define actual game parameters according to their own interpretation and force feeding it on the rest of us. worse, they're the only ones who see these parameters. we don't. they're defining a standard set of rules that they want us to follow but we can't see it. and why should we follow their rules? its a free game right?

so what happens if we don't agree, they mass us. and then they tell us that we've been educated? that's BS and nothing more. its similar to saying because you did not do things my way, i mass you. now you've been educated.

don't you see that, sev? it's just plain wrong.

we're all here to enjoy the game. what the heck does it matter to you if 100 percent of my population is massable? if you think its stupid, then mass. but don't tell me that i've been educated afterwards. i have 100% def maybe because I'm paranoid or because i like it that way. You find it strange, attack me. But don't tell me that what I am doing is stupid. You might see having 100% defense as stupid, but i don't. why? because i may be paranoid. mass me, fine. but don't tell me that I'm stupid.

don't tell me that I am doing the wrong thing because it does not conform to your set of abstract rules. if you think it's wrong, then mass me. just don't tell me that it's against your rules. that i'm stupid. that i'm dumb. and don't add the last part about having been educated because it adds insult to injury.

now sev... don't go back to the resources argument. because i already said that you deserved to be massed or attacked or raided if you have all those resources out.
[/spoiler]

You say a small group of bullies are forcing people to play their way. Yet you do not admit that by putting up pressure, you are attempt to force them to play your way.

You say they are attempting to set game parameters to their liking. Yet you do not admit that the passive people have placed game parameters in moral protections and bindings and massings/wars requiring full justification.

You say why should you follow their rules. Yet you do not admit that they are doing just that to you, by not conforming to the rules set in place by passive players.

You say that game style is just plain wrong. That is the implication that your gamestyle is right and theirs is wrong. That is you dictating what is right and what is wrong and attempting to dictate their gameplay as well though you do not admit this.

You are telling me a lot of Do nots, you are setting down a lot of rules. You are dictating how agressive players should be playing. You are saying they should play by your rules. You are saying that your way is right and theirs is wrong.

A lot of self contradiction here that few are willing to admit.

I am not here to prove innocence. I am here to prove mutual guilt and that I have done.
Last edited by Severian on Sat May 24, 2008 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
weilandsmith
Forum Elder
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:57 pm
Race: Asgard
ID: 1994771

Re: ban educating sig :D

oh yeah sev? so you think their version of education is correct? their not educating sev. they're forcing people to play the game their way. it's not educating. it's an insult. they are forcing us to play their way, so we are fighting back to stop them from doing so. we are not dictating to them but they want to dictate to us.
Image
User avatar
bebita
Forum Zombie
Posts: 5852
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:40 am
Alliance: Familly
Race: brothers
ID: 0

Re: ban educating sig :D

is not a dictation
i didn't start to mass educators
is a suggestions
a campaign
mr severian nice try but try more
what you are doing is wrong
is my right to say that
i can try to make you to understand
i can be revolted by your actions
you can follow your choice or just stop to be a bullie
in my country died alot of people 20 years ago for this right
i will not stop here because severian thinks that my word are a dictate to him
Spoiler
Image
Tziki wrote:
Bebita a known Spy from the server war, who joined TO under false pretences yet again has a filthy trick up his sleave. In fact it appears the Filth up his sleave is DDE and Mayhem. When confronted about them supporting Bebita and Rob3rt (as there were suspicions as to be a tiny account got his MS and Naq / Turns etc) neither deny their involved behind the scenes but instead hint towards it being a coincidence.
R8 wrote:the shock of seeing bebita in my attack logs after so long was too much to handle so I had to hit vac mode to try and recover for a few days

catch ya later :D
Severian

Re: ban educating sig :D

weilandsmith wrote:oh yeah sev? so you think their version of education is correct? their not educating sev. they're forcing people to play the game their way. it's not educating. it's an insult. they are forcing us to play their way, so we are fighting back to stop them from doing so. we are not dictating to them but they want to dictate to us.


I have replied to your post in an edit.

Meanwhile you say you are fighting back. As a newbie, perhaps you do not realise that before the educators - that the passive style was the be all and end all and the educators were making a stand against that imposition and dictation. That they were fighting back to stop them from doing so.

I show you the reversal and that all parties are guilty and yet only one gets tied to the stake while the other is seen as the only right way to play.
User avatar
weilandsmith
Forum Elder
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:57 pm
Race: Asgard
ID: 1994771

Re: ban educating sig :D

Severian wrote:I have replied to your post in an edit.

Meanwhile you say you are fighting back. As a newbie, perhaps you do not realise that before the educators - that the passive style was the be all and end all and the educators were making a stand against that imposition and dictation. That they were fighting back to stop them from doing so.

I show you the reversal and that all parties are guilty and yet only one gets tied to the stake while the other is seen as the only right way to play.


ahh sev. then if they don't want to play passively, they shouldn't. go ahead and mass anyone and everyone. BUT, they should allow us to play passively if that's the way we want to play it. they shouldn't tell us to play the game their way. that's it. i'm not forcing them to be passive. i'm forcing them to stop them from forcing us to adopt their style of play. because, sev, that is what they are trying to dictate. the style of play. i like being passive. why should you force me to be unpassive? in the same way, if you want to be aggressive, go ahead. more power to you. but don't tell me to play the game your way which is what they're trying to do by laying down rules on how much defense a player has, etc etc. by dictating how much defense i should have, they are affecting my passivity. this is the gist of my argument sev. the style of play. we want to be passive, but we're not telling you to be passive as well. all we want is for you to stop dictating to us how we should play the game. now, here they come and use the word "education"? c'mon. it isn't education. it's dictating and very insulting. you force me to play your way, but since i don't, you attack me and tell me that i've been educated? that's where the insult lies sev. to each his or her own style of game play. don't tell me how to play. don't attack me because my style of gaming does not fits yours and then add insult to injury by telling me that i've been educated?

i can understand the way they fought off dictation from the passive players of long ago. but, with this talk about how proper defense should be and anyone who does not follow it should be massed, well, don't you see? they're the ones doing the dictating now.
Last edited by weilandsmith on Sat May 24, 2008 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
LTC
Forum Expert
Posts: 1105
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:02 am
Alliance: The Dark Stalkers
Race: <3NANOTI!<3
ID: 33391
Location: In a bush, outside some hot girls window.

Re: ban educating sig :D

Well, this argument sure is interesting.
Severian

Re: ban educating sig :D

weilandsmith wrote:
Severian wrote:I have replied to your post in an edit.

Meanwhile you say you are fighting back. As a newbie, perhaps you do not realise that before the educators - that the passive style was the be all and end all and the educators were making a stand against that imposition and dictation. That they were fighting back to stop them from doing so.

I show you the reversal and that all parties are guilty and yet only one gets tied to the stake while the other is seen as the only right way to play.


ahh sev. then if they don't want to play passively, they shouldn't. go ahead and mass anyone and everyone. BUT, they should allow us to play passively if that's the way we want to play it. they shouldn't tell us to play the game their way. that's it. i'm not forcing them to be passive. i'm forcing them to stop them from forcing us to adopt their style of play. because, sev, that is what they are trying to dictate. the style of play. i like being passive. why should you force me to be unpassive? in the same way, if you want to be aggressive, go ahead. more power to you. but don't tell me to play the game your way which is what they're trying to do by laying down rules on how much defense a player has, etc etc. by dictating how much defense i should have, they are affecting my passivity. this is the gist of my argument sev. the style of play. we want to be passive, but we're not telling you to be passive as well. all we want is for you to stop dictating to us how we should play the game. now, here they come and use the word "education"? c'mon. it isn't education. it's dictating and very insulting. you force me to play your way, but since i don't, you attack me and tell me that i've been educated? that's where the insult lies sev. to each his or her own style of game play. don't tell me how to play. don't attack me because my style of gaming does not fits yours and then add insult to injury by telling me that i've been educated?


If you don't want them to tell you to play the game their way based upon principle, don't go telling them to play the game your way. You can say no, I will not play your game and either fight back or stay with 0 stats and deny them the ability to hurt you. But the second you demand they play your way, you abandon that very cause you are defending against so stubbornly. Which is the point I am attempting to raise.

Everyone in this thread is pointing in the mirror.

Also, If you come up with an argument, the very first thing you do is invert it and apply it to yourself before clicking post. It saves you awkard situations. I have not said my way is right. You have said your way is right. I have merely said that both sides are guilty and that I am not here to prove innocence, but rather that mutual guilt.

You are saying that they are dictating styles of play now and that it is the new crux of your argument. Your argument has changed from mods being irresponsible to massing without justification to educations being bullies hitting smaller accounts to educations imposing rules to educators using the word educate to impose a playstyle.

They are free to mass anyone and everyone yes? Then why your support against the educators in threads with those against them for the reasons of unjust massing? That is, threads against the educators breaking "rules" that passive players have set in place? You end up defending the very concept you are currently against.

Passive players have somehow Equating Massing without Justifiction = Bullying = Wrong.
Which in essense is:
Massing without your justification = bullying = wrong.
Which is based upon:
Massing without predefined conditions met = bullying = wrong.

Who is setting those predefined conditions?
Who has the right to set triggers and dictate responces?
Who is setting rules in place that people must follow?
Who is dictacting when something is right and wrong?

You seem happy enough to defend these rules while opposing the conditions the educators have set about for their triggers to mass an account. Or have you changed your mind again and reverting to an earlier argument?

You have conceded the point that the educators and agressive players in general have an equal right to play their way and at the moment the only thing to argue is semantics on imposition. While we're at it, let us delve into the semantics of education.

Answer me this one question.

If you have a lot trained and someone masses you, did you learn it is risky and potentially costly to have a lot trained?

If the answer is yes, then you have learnt something. You have been educated. It may not be nice, but since we're into semantics here it is an education of sorts and you in fact have been educated.
Post Reply

Return to “StarGateWars General”