Definition of the ombdus(wo)man job.

[Draleg]

So , i was wondering , wat do you think the ombdus(wo)man needs to do for you.

I see the position of the ombdus(wo)man as a person that negotiates between a forum member ( lets call him Lenny ) and a mod if there is a dispute over an action taken that has consiquenses to Lenny's forum activity.

The ombdus(wo)man has and wil never have any place in problems between forum users , if Lenny dicides to call a forum user (§é#"é&'é"&) a bad word on the forum its the place of the MOD's to interveen , not the ombdus(wo)man .

Lets say Lenny makes a post and he gets a warning for the content of the post .
Lenny feels this warning is unfair as he can not find anything wrong with wat he posted but the MOD in question feels the warning is just thus we have a stailmate.

At this point Lenny can contact the ombdus(wo)man and give his vieuw on the matter , the ombdus(wo)man then contacts the MOD and lisens to the MOD's point of vieuw and then decides wat the next action wil be , 2 choises here ,

1 The ombdus(wo)man feels the MOD is correct in his action and wil explain to Lenny why the ombdus(wo)man feels this way , Lenny can stil contact the other MOD's and try to have someone re-open his case but to be honest this wil probably in 90% of the time be a waste of time.

2 The ombdus(wo)man feels that the action taken against Lenny is injust and wil ask the MOD in question to re-evaluate the sanction , if the MOD is unwilling to change the sanction or can not give a valid reason for not changing it the ombdus(wo)man can always ask other MOD's to take it to a vote between the MOD's. As there are Mods from more then one alliance this seems to be the best solution as i think there are still ppl that make it a point to have morals befor alliances.

The ombdus(wo)man position must be seen as a negotiation position between forum users and forum modarators not an alliance promotion job.

Its also not the ombdus(wo)man's placetobethe MOD's friend , its the ombdus(wo)man's place to be the arbiter for a fun forum with EQUAL wrights to all users.

One last remark , some ppl follow the law to the letter , i have always seen the written laws as guidlines not as " not bendible " some cases are not the same as others that on the surfice seem the same , some problems on the forum have a history , others dont , and thats why every " dispute " can have a different ending.

But then again , this is only my point of vieuw , feel free to give your's.

Draleg

[Legendary Apophis]

Well in my opinion firstly a woman can do this job as well as a man would, while this name suggests it's only men job.
Secondly, the job of ombdus(wo)man is to be the negociator (lol that sounds funny) with diplomatic skills, but needs also to be unbiased, and of course, not naive, as the person would be used quite easily for any undiscutable decision(s) by mods..
So for me the person has to not be biased, let it be sort of "spokeman" of an ingame group, or defender of the mods, and hater of users, and vice versa.
It requires convincing skills and the person who has this role must be motivated by the role, and act according to what is expected from the role, unbiasedly talking of course.

[Draleg]

Well in my opinion firstly a woman can do this job as well as a man would, while this name suggests it's only men job.

point granted , edited the original post , i'm shure we all agree that there is nothing in SGW's that a woman cant do just as good as a man , if not even better.

[geisha]

The WTH(wo)man should be able to see both, the mods and the forum users' point of view.

The WTH(wo)man should listen to forum users who think they aren't being treated fair and in case he/she agrees, do everything he/she can to solve the issue and represent the forum users' position and concerns in discussions with the mods. If he/she doesn't agree, he/she should explain that to the forum user in question but still inform them about the option of contacting a forum admin about it.

As a person of trust the WTH(wo)man should never attack or flame anyone, regardless if a moderator or not in public and make sure to remain a neutral image.

[Brdavs]

A practical aspect:

Ombudsman (bite me ladies, it is what it is, so are firemen. Talk about over-correctness ffs) is gonna have to deal firstly and foremostly with accusations of political mod bias, so he should be one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time, and to the mods themselves - or risk being put in the same bracket of being biased when calls won`t go someones way.
Neutrality. Not abstract, not prinicipal, FACTUAL neutrality. You can be a all around swell guy in all aspects needed but if you don`t adhere to that 1 basic principle that the arbitrers or mediators should be ones not ivolved on any level you mightaswell not even bother cos in the end you`ll more often then not only be adding fuell to the fire.

Ofc. the powers at be apparently disagree lol...

[Draleg]

one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time

This wold be the perfect solution , tho the problem is ware to find someone that never played the game , knows nobody connected to the game / forum and is willing to put in the time to do it , and then getting bashed for not knowing the first thing of the game or the roleplay involved.

I think we have to admit that Utopia is not wethin the grasp of the SGW universe.

[TheRook]

2 The ombdus(wo)man feels that the action taken against Lenny is injust and wil ask the MOD in question to re-evaluate the sanction , if the MOD is unwilling to change the sanction or can not give a valid reason for not changing it the ombdus(wo)man can always ask other MOD's to take it to a vote between the MOD's. As there are Mods from more then one alliance this seems to be the best solution as i think there are still ppl that make it a point to have morals befor alliances.

I think at the point where this occurs all mods will be involved in coming up with the appropriate course of action and determining the outcome not just the mod who gave the warning.

Thats how I think it should happen.
as a mod myself if I were to give awarning and the ombudsman had the user complain I would speak with other mods and see what they think if I was in the wrong or not (obviously with the ombudsman active in that thread/discussion).

Then to see my decision over turned or kept.

TheRook

[papa~smurf]

A practical aspect:

Ombudsman (bite me ladies, it is what it is, so are firemen. Talk about over-correctness ffs) is gonna have to deal firstly and foremostly with accusations of political mod bias, so he should be one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time, and to the mods themselves - or risk being put in the same bracket of being biased when calls won`t go someones way.
Neutrality. Not abstract, not prinicipal, FACTUAL neutrality. You can be a all around swell guy in all aspects needed but if you don`t adhere to that 1 basic principle that the arbitrers or mediators should be ones not ivolved on any level you mightaswell not even bother cos in the end you`ll more often then not only be adding fuell to the fire.

Ofc. the powers at be apparently disagree lol...

one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time

This wold be the perfect solution , tho the problem is ware to find someone that never played the game , knows nobody connected to the game / forum and is willing to put in the time to do it , and then getting bashed for not knowing the first thing of the game or the roleplay involved.

I think we have to admit that Utopia is not wethin the grasp of the SGW universe.

well i think the point he is making more comes from the major empire views. that the person be above having direct ties to them. most of the recent mod bashing seems to be coming out of there handling of the post in the server war. kinda hard to be unbais as your account gets hit lol ( i say this in jest, most if not all the mods seem to walk this slippery slope fairly well) but, if some one can make mountains out of mole hills, they will

[Brdavs]

one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time

This wold be the perfect solution , tho the problem is ware to find someone that never played the game , knows nobody connected to the game / forum and is willing to put in the time to do it , and then getting bashed for not knowing the first thing of the game or the roleplay involved.

I think we have to admit that Utopia is not wethin the grasp of the SGW universe.

One thing is to note one cannot achieve perfection, another is to for all intents and purposes stop even trying. And putting forward 3 candidates from the 2 blocks that contribute 90% of the **Filtered** and arguing on these forums while you actually have a strong "3rd party contender" is just that. Borderline cynism lol.

Tell me honestly, do you really expect to effectivly build bridges when the main beef will be how mods are omega/fuall biased heh? (same aplicable to piano and TLE biass)
It has nothing to do with personal abillites or character of either of you, it`s just a slight objective imposibillty heh...

[Draleg]

I must say i to was surprised that MLH was not in the final selection as she had far more nominations then i had , if the mods shud have the power to decide on who the final candidates are is a topic better ansered in an other topic as it is not directly relevant to this tread and if discussed here wil only hinder the topic at hand.

Tell me honestly, do you really expect to effectivly build bridges when the main beef will be how mods are omega/fuall biased heh? (same aplicable to piano and TLE biass)

let me anser that with a quote

One thing is to note one cannot achieve perfection, another is to for all intents and purposes stop even trying.

Dont forget , even the O(W)M can be removed from office if there is a valid reason , nobody above the law.

[papa~smurf]

one with as few or no ingame or other close ties to the issues he`ll be dealing with 95% of the time

This wold be the perfect solution , tho the problem is ware to find someone that never played the game , knows nobody connected to the game / forum and is willing to put in the time to do it , and then getting bashed for not knowing the first thing of the game or the roleplay involved.

I think we have to admit that Utopia is not wethin the grasp of the SGW universe.

One thing is to note one cannot achieve perfection, another is to for all intents and purposes stop even trying. And putting forward 3 candidates from the 2 blocks that contribute 90% of the **Filtered** and arguing on these forums while you actually have a strong "3rd party contender" is just that. Borderline cynism lol.

Tell me honestly, do you really expect to effectivly build bridges when the main beef will be how mods are omega/fuall biased heh? (same aplicable to piano and TLE biass)
It has nothing to do with personal abillites or character of either of you, it`s just a slight objective imposibillty heh...

that was the point of those who voted a certain way last week. Not cause they hate fuall, or tle, or are playing out some game with the rights of the forum users, but cause they saw the long term trouble not have an independent would cause. It's about the whole of the users of this forum, not the few. but what done is done. And now the vote isn't even happening cause of what i understand as undue pressure being applied to voters ? Well, by the actions of these that are early on corrupting the process, we will know the end result.

[Brdavs]

It was not my intention to came across as problematizing the final 3 selection as far as induviduals & their qualities go. You are all awsome guys as far as I know.
I was just pointing out the fact that the main "objective quality" of an ombundman that will have a massive effect on his performance in his position (in my view) is not to be found in any of the current three heh. Howcome that came to pass is perhaps indeed a matter for a new topic but I`m steering clear of that one heh...

I hope whoever gets the job has a goot time and an easy ride doing it. But boy, we sure ain`t makin it easy on ourselves/community/you lol.

[papa~smurf]

So , i was wondering , wat do you think the ombdus(wo)man needs to do for you.


Draleg

u asked. I will answer. Leave the major empire u belong to so u can not be said to be "in bed " with any one. That your real reason for running is to serve the users, and not an empire.

and this could be said to all who are running.

[Draleg]

As for the " forcing " to vote a sertain way , i must say , there is a difference on giving someone advice and applying force .

If i was to say " everyone being nice to Geisha on the forum will be massed " wold it change the way you post ?

Some ppl wil change there posts , others wont .

There is always the group spirit that makes organised groups of ppl wanting " one of there own " ppl to have a position of " power " , it is up to the person in question to use the position in a way that it is ment to be used , it is the moral of the person that wil be at risk , if this is misused the users of the forum wil not sit back , they wil act if needed , no matter who makes wat treath.

[Legendary Apophis]

How about we let Jack name the successor? I'm sure he'll choose well and a not biased person. Since votes are causing various problems, isn't it best way to go?
Afterall a spokesman of an ingame group isn't what we look for here
As an active voter in real life I can tell this vote isn't doing good, since MLH is out of choices, it's best thing to do, let Jack name the succesor.