just curious...

[Mystake]

well campaign for becoming an admin then jenny, since you seem to have it down to a tee.


he was your superior. As per Jason, his job description clearly states

there will be 2 'personelle forum admins' -- in effect in charge of ensuring we have enough mods, the right mods, and in the right sections.

from Jason himself

Based on my interpretation of that... it is up to the personel admin (or smoosh) to decide who the right mods are. It doesn't say "the admin will conduct votes". This isn't an alliance high command.


edit: I don't remember you having a problem with Smoosh not letting FS back in after he quit (and subsequently went to Jason and whined)

edit2: You were a global moderator. Smoosh is your superior. He tells you where to mod. You don't tell him what to do, he tells you. Its a chain of command. You weren't on his panel of advisors, nor are any of the mods. When he asked for mod opinion it is out of courtesy as he is not obliged to do so.

[Teal'auc of the Void]

well campaign for becoming an admin then jenny, since you seem to have it down to a tee.


he was your superior. As per Jason, his job description clearly states

there will be 2 'personelle forum admins' -- in effect in charge of ensuring we have enough mods, the right mods, and in the right sections.

from Jason himself

Based on my interpretation of that... it is up to the personel admin (or smoosh) to decide who the right mods are. It doesn't say "the admin will conduct votes". This isn't an alliance high command.


edit: I don't remember you having a problem with Smoosh not letting FS back in after he quit (and subsequently went to Jason and whined)

I have no real wish for 'campaign' for admin position. Unlike Smooshable, I am not on some power trip. The fact is, I got fired for no real reason. The fact it, that it's not only my opinion and far more people agree with me. Even those I'd never expect to defend me.

And since when are you spokesman for smooshable? Did he promise you mod position? Or ombudsman? I seriously question your intentions... other than throwing mud at me. Coming from someone who I 'raised' from little newbie and considered him as close as son.



Teal'auc

[Mystake]

And since when are you spokesman for smooshable? Did he promise you mod position? Or ombudsman? I seriously question your intentions... other than throwing mud at me. Coming from someone who I 'raised' from little newbie and considered him as close as son.
Teal'auc

Me? ombudsman? nah im pretty sure if i was you'd have told me you wanted me out by now.

@Bolded
Stop talking to Tok'ra.

@ "considered" < doesn't need to be in past tense. And that's not a jab at your english.

Also, I am not spokesman for Smoosh but I do speak from my experience as a member of the team.

As I said earlier though, you were slated for removal months ago. Months.

And you outta know this... but kids fight back against their parents. Teenagehood! XD

but don't you ever ask me if I've been 'bribed' ever again. You know me better then that.

[Teal'auc of the Void]

Me? ombudsman? nah im pretty sure if i was you'd have told me you wanted me out by now.

@Bolded
Stop talking to Tok'ra.

@ "considered" < doesn't need to be in past tense. And that's not a jab at your english.

Also, I am not spokesman for Smoosh but I do speak from my experience as a member of the team.

As I said earlier though, you were slated for removal months ago. Months.

And you outta know this... but kids fight back against their parents. Teenagehood! XD

but don't you ever ask me if I've been 'bribed' ever again. You know me better then that.

I'm talking on my own accord and Tok'ra has little or no influence over me, as I do know he makes things bigger than they actually are...plus he uses ways I despise. So again, low blow.



Teal'auc

[KnowLedge]

when u say fired.. do u mean that you were getting paid by the admin, and forum admin.

Another thing,, Have any1 asked themselves "why the admin have made this game"// its the same reason why all online games were made. TO MAKE MONEY...
when some1 says taht admin selling data. or selling account or siding with one side and if he is doing it for money.. nothing wrong with it because the sole purpose of this game is and will be to MAKE MONEY

Lastly, im kinda confused.. u guys fighting because u were fired or relieved of your duty from the forums??
This is what u do if u think make ppl will follow you then make ur own bloody forum.. and USE IT. maybe then you will find out what you can and will do for money.

btw
Mystake u were once a ombudsmen??? thats great.. had i known that before i would not have made comments like i did

[Teal'auc of the Void]

when u say fired.. do u mean that you were getting paid by the admin, and forum admin.

Another thing,, Have any1 asked themselves "why the admin have made this game"// its the same reason why all online games were made. TO MAKE MONEY...
when some1 says taht admin selling data. or selling account or siding with one side and if he is doing it for money.. nothing wrong with it because the sole purpose of this game is and will be to MAKE MONEY

Lastly, im kinda confused.. u guys fighting because u were fired or relieved of your duty from the forums??
This is what u do if u think make ppl will follow you then make ur own bloody forum.. and USE IT. maybe then you will find out what you can and will do for money.

btw
Mystake u were once a ombudsmen??? thats great.. had i known that before i would not have made comments like i did

Some people don't need to do stuff just for money. Moderators of course were never paid... heh. Why everyone assumes that everything, even this was made because of good profit.



Teal'auc

[KnowLedge]

when u say fired.. do u mean that you were getting paid by the admin, and forum admin.

Another thing,, Have any1 asked themselves "why the admin have made this game"// its the same reason why all online games were made. TO MAKE MONEY...
when some1 says taht admin selling data. or selling account or siding with one side and if he is doing it for money.. nothing wrong with it because the sole purpose of this game is and will be to MAKE MONEY

Lastly, im kinda confused.. u guys fighting because u were fired or relieved of your duty from the forums??
This is what u do if u think make ppl will follow you then make ur own bloody forum.. and USE IT. maybe then you will find out what you can and will do for money.

btw
Mystake u were once a ombudsmen??? thats great.. had i known that before i would not have made comments like i did

Yes we get paid, we get paid with insults, degrading comments, massings, criticism, snide remarks. Ya we get paid alright, I'm not so sure that it's something you want to be paid in.

im just saying, its not like u get money for it, meaning its volunteering.. and still no respect to the volunteers..

[Teal'auc of the Void]

I’m going to ignore all that I do know from several views over a protracted period of time as well as any circumstantial or coincidental events and (re)actions that I have born witness to or explored in depth in my own time and go through this in a logical way.

That is, the thinking process for those who were not involved and who have a clear mind on forums with no true in-depth knowledge of the event who are adding their input and the reasons for it. The most basic and obvious reasons for a mod discharge would be:

- Method & attitude i.e. pride/aggressive etc
- Past Mistakes/Impaired Judgement
- Restructure/Forum Reorganisation
- Impulsive rather than methodical
- Experience or lack thereof
- Private/Personal not Professional
- Teamwork/Communication issues

Rather than explain terms and argue semantics, people will tend to prefer to equate attributes with past events/history or through comparisons and to the extent of which they can apply it (i.e. number of others it can also apply to). Should it leave only the given two mods affected by the above then their guilt and discharge would be fully justified but should it affect several other mods or not apply to the given mods, people will ask questions and begin to suspect ulterior motives (as others involved believe).

Going through the list now in the very most basic way (It would be easy to create a full multi-paragraph argument backed up by several incidents or events for each point so I’ll abstract them to their most basic form both to simplify this response):

- If the reason is being too assertive, proud and direct (i.e. lacking tact), then Jack is by far more guilty of that then Teal'Auc and can be seen in every issue he dealt with as an ombudsman and also in the current thread other users have noted and questioned his aggressive stances from a position meant to conjure respect and reason.

- If the reason is past mistakes or impaired judgement that can be applied to Dadigi Aurial and several other mods as soon as you scratch the surface and if you go by a popular vote, you'll find the general consensus on forums is that Teal'Auc was the most trusted and impartial (tied with wolf359) and proof given with her modding most server wide events or times of crisis/lack of faith in the admin (ETL/Pookie/Current until discharge).

- If the reason is restructure, then the inactive mods and those who no longer meet the time requirements to perform their duties should have been sent their two weeks’ notice rather than possible the active mods.

- If the reason is too impulsive, then this situation along with say Buck quitting & returning x times, the amount of spam threads and pranks of varying degrees by several other mods without though would surely equal or outweigh this several fold.

-If the reason is experience, surely the two revoked had endured nearly every event and pressure on forums to date and still had the flare to mod and the right ideology behind it.

That essentially leaves the options of private/personal not professional reasons or an inability to work together efficiently in which case the mods have all noted the distance of the admin team and which the public are now aware of and so a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

As such explaining the real reasoning behind your decision and the underlying issues that led to casting your hand is the only way you’ll vindicate yourself or salvage this situation. To distance or curb/extinguish the current debates would only vindicate those who are bringing forth the criticism and to post more half truths would add this event to the current string which will return and be brought forwards every other time an issue arises as yet another skeleton in the closet, each time having a snowball event and having more weight behind it.

So I would implore you to present the real reasons rather than the current smoke and mirrors and that damning as it may well be, the lasting and reoccurring damage by not doing so will easily outweigh the temporary discomfort or embarrassment.

The forums deserve better and remember that how you handle this crisis will be a defining moment in your legacy and how most will remember you by as time goes on.

Interesting points there... quoting someone who agreed to allow me to repost this here, as they are too gutted from what is happening on these forums, so they wished to remain off these forums.



Teal'auc

[Vendetta]

Smoosh Im asuming youre telling the complete truth, but this doesnt compute.

You say the logs are true, but prove your innocence

Yet the logs prove you were online during the prank, however so breifley.

That means that something isnt true.

And if you lied about one thing, why nore more than one. ?

[smooshable]

I was away for the few days before april 1 and had no knowledge of what
Tok`ra was going to do before that. When I got back (not sure if it was late into april 1 or early april 2 - as Jack says, the time zone thing is complicated and I don't remember exactly what time I did something that was over two months ago) I came on, found what was happening. Sure, I didn't ban him straight away (which tok`ra has admitted is the only thing I did which in anyway helped him) as I had to work out what was going on. I had a discussion with the various mods who were online and I said to them that it was clearly a prank of some kind but banning him right now could potentially give him credibility. Eventually admin Jason was contacted and he decided the best thing to do was to ban him.

Perhaps I could have handled it better but just because I didn't handle it perfectly (with hindsight) doesn't mean I was complicit in the act.

smoosh

[Wolf359]

Ahh... everybody wants democracy. In the case of forum admin, democracy is not an option. It has been stated so several times in this forum by both arguing parties.

If smoosh decides to fire all mods, then all mods are fired. nothing anybody can do about it is there except to gripe.

was firing FS and Teaulc unjustified? Maybe.

was smoosh within his authority to fire FS and Teaulc? Definitely. Why? because democracy does not apply to admin.

The point is, what's done is done. All this griping is just affecting both parties in a negative manner. Point in fact, dirty laundry is beginning to come out. If you want to prevent that, then just stop.

Tealuc and Freespirit, i respect both of you. You are pillars in the SGW world. But nothing will change the fact that Smoosh can fire you for whatever reason he sees fit.

Smoosh, I'm not questioning you. It's certainly your decision to fire mods as you please. But, at this point in time when a lot of people are griping, maybe a little clarification and explanation can clear the air, please.

To other members of respect group, don't add fuel to the fire.

Zeratul, do something. Ban respect group from this topic if you want. If you lose members, so be it. They've violated the rules anyway.

The hiring/firing of mods is NOT the underlying issue in this matter. It is the way in which certain things are being done - which is very much akin to the way someone else used to do things that many, many people did not agree with.

Interesting how you mention democracy and state that it is not an option for the admin. In truth, what the admin has been trying to do is create MORE of a democracy in the forum (of course the problem with a democracy is that people more often than not end up voting for not what is best, then when they realise it they complain and moan about it!) . However, the way in which it has been done recently does nothing but undermine the jobs the mods are trying to do (probably unintentionally). It's like I said before - it's all about communication - and democracies don't really work without communication.

And there are things that can be done about it - as stated previously - there has ALWAYS been a process through which certain things are done here. When those processes are ignored, seemingly because it suits those who ignore them, then those involved (or not, as the case is!) have a right to demand explanations and reasons (of which very little is forthcoming)!

Do not be fooled into thinking that a forum admin is untouchable in his or her position! Admins have been removed from their positions before, over the way they have conducted themselves.

[Vendetta]

"my bad" forgot pic.

[Vendetta]

I didn't quite catch that, maybe a 4th time?

[Legendary Apophis]

I’m going to ignore all that I do know from several views over a protracted period of time as well as any circumstantial or coincidental events and (re)actions that I have born witness to or explored in depth in my own time and go through this in a logical way.

That is, the thinking process for those who were not involved and who have a clear mind on forums with no true in-depth knowledge of the event who are adding their input and the reasons for it. The most basic and obvious reasons for a mod discharge would be:

- Method & attitude i.e. pride/aggressive etc
- Past Mistakes/Impaired Judgement
- Restructure/Forum Reorganisation
- Impulsive rather than methodical
- Experience or lack thereof
- Private/Personal not Professional
- Teamwork/Communication issues

Rather than explain terms and argue semantics, people will tend to prefer to equate attributes with past events/history or through comparisons and to the extent of which they can apply it (i.e. number of others it can also apply to). Should it leave only the given two mods affected by the above then their guilt and discharge would be fully justified but should it affect several other mods or not apply to the given mods, people will ask questions and begin to suspect ulterior motives (as others involved believe).

Going through the list now in the very most basic way (It would be easy to create a full multi-paragraph argument backed up by several incidents or events for each point so I’ll abstract them to their most basic form both to simplify this response):

- If the reason is being too assertive, proud and direct (i.e. lacking tact), then Jack is by far more guilty of that then Teal'Auc and can be seen in every issue he dealt with as an ombudsman and also in the current thread other users have noted and questioned his aggressive stances from a position meant to conjure respect and reason.

- If the reason is past mistakes or impaired judgement that can be applied to Dadigi Aurial and several other mods as soon as you scratch the surface and if you go by a popular vote, you'll find the general consensus on forums is that Teal'Auc was the most trusted and impartial (tied with wolf359) and proof given with her modding most server wide events or times of crisis/lack of faith in the admin (ETL/Pookie/Current until discharge).

- If the reason is restructure, then the inactive mods and those who no longer meet the time requirements to perform their duties should have been sent their two weeks’ notice rather than possible the active mods.

- If the reason is too impulsive, then this situation along with say Buck quitting & returning x times, the amount of spam threads and pranks of varying degrees by several other mods without though would surely equal or outweigh this several fold.

-If the reason is experience, surely the two revoked had endured nearly every event and pressure on forums to date and still had the flare to mod and the right ideology behind it.

That essentially leaves the options of private/personal not professional reasons or an inability to work together efficiently in which case the mods have all noted the distance of the admin team and which the public are now aware of and so a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

As such explaining the real reasoning behind your decision and the underlying issues that led to casting your hand is the only way you’ll vindicate yourself or salvage this situation. To distance or curb/extinguish the current debates would only vindicate those who are bringing forth the criticism and to post more half truths would add this event to the current string which will return and be brought forwards every other time an issue arises as yet another skeleton in the closet, each time having a snowball event and having more weight behind it.

So I would implore you to present the real reasons rather than the current smoke and mirrors and that damning as it may well be, the lasting and reoccurring damage by not doing so will easily outweigh the temporary discomfort or embarrassment.

The forums deserve better and remember that how you handle this crisis will be a defining moment in your legacy and how most will remember you by as time goes on.

Interesting points there... quoting someone who agreed to allow me to repost this here, as they are too gutted from what is happening on these forums, so they wished to remain off these forums.



Teal'auc

Quite recognizable who wrote it lol, and to be honest, if those rules were applied...there wouldn't be much mods left, some of those being fired being competent and all but still fired for reasons that don't make them bad mods. And people say we haven't enough mods to lock topics that are irrevelant (ie GC when wars are over and topics spammed and provoked).

If those so called choosing perfection into mods, are applied, this forum will be even more of a mess! Not surprised if some "alright" mods would give up as their section would be deserted because mod A would have been fired for this, and mod B for that. And you'll all be happy to notice that people would take advantage there aren't mods anymore and the entire bashing would begin, and this time it wouldn't be able to be saved!
I wouldn't be surprised we even start to get bots registering and posting porn links and scams about links to bank transfers and all.

Instead of always trying to get rid of mods for various more or less reasonable reasons, why not let simply admins decide or supermods when a mod is not efficient? "Village justice" never worked properly as you can accuse anyone, it's a barbarian way to judge, and it solves nothing.

I really wonder why people always want to get rid of mods, and then they realize noone could replace them, because most of choosen ones are the best choices, and if we pick the "rest of list" of best mods not yet mods, I am sure it will be their time a day to cross those "excuses to fire a mod for the heck of it" and be fired their turn, and THEN, we would realize it was stupid to act like this.

There aren't perfect mods. Some hypocrisy there, the so called all perfect and all good mods, I remember them being pointed at and yelled several times as well, so instead of trying to say this person is best one and the other isn't, try to figure out your all perfect mods already AT LEAST ONCE broke the so called "keep the best of them rules". So by this kind of thinking, we should fire them as well right?
Any mod who been modding angry, drunk, used not acceptable words, did too biased choice, modded blindly, having past history, known to not agree with other mods too often on decision and "fighting" on the open for this, should be fired if we want to be right and apply those rules heh?
As I said in beginning, almost noone would be still left on the list!

So rather than trying to do a "productive cleaning" of the mods, better keep those mods as anyway new ones so called competent by xyz would break one of the so called "10 commandments" of modship a day or another because noone is perfect, and there are many interpretations of good modding. Since there are always sides and we can hardly satisfy everyone, so there will be bias, there will be anger, and "10 commandments of modship" would be broken and we would fire ONCE AGAIN.

[Teal'auc of the Void]

Apophis, with all due respect... Admins should not dismiss mods just because they want and at whim. That smells like dictatorship... and nobody likes dictatorship. And as someone pointed out. Admins are not untouchable entity. Some were fired for way they conducted. I am not implying smooshable should be fired, all I want is FAIRNESS from him, not these double standards and personal unability to get over the fact someone disagrees with his ideas.

You may be ok with dictatorship and with admin who removes people at whim... I am glad there are people who'd rather see things smooth and fair and that not everyone sees it as Mystake and you. Your major thoughts are that admin can do as they want when they were assigned in charge of these forums. I hope you are mistaken.

As well... I see smooshable made his time to defend hijmself against cooperating with Tok'ra. Yet, he still didn't give VALID reason for our dismissal. Yes, there is probably none and it's either Smooshable trying to think of something what wouldn't look like utter bias, unfairness and the fact he let himself be affected by personal dislike OR he's waiting for Jason to tell us to shut up. That's not how honest admin should work. He's hidding like very doubtful person and it is if anything, very dodgy.



Teal'auc