educating the masses and waking up the sheople.

[Iƒrit]

Actually, I think you guys have a point, especially the Bildiberg group (or however you say it). I just think that 9/11 wasn't an inside job, because our government is not that good. These guys got together in the 90's. Why didn't they use the Cole bombing to such an extent?, instead? I think they were just waiting for a big attack they knew was going to happen sooner or later before the sprang. (Btw, as a comment on YouTube pointed out, explosions=/=explosives. One of the jokes at my school during fire drills is that our regulation stopping point is actually pretty close to the school, considering the amount of gas and other combustionable products in the school.)

As for the global cabal theory, I actually agree (to an extent). Do I think Bush is in it? No, he's really not that devious/clever. Could Cheney be in it? Quite possibly. Do I think it would be great if we decided to lock up these conspirators, charge them on counts of treason (death penalty would be a final solution), root out their system, seize their personal funds (give the stockowners their portions back to keep people happy), with a final solution being 1) conspirators captured, 2) funds pay off (or eliminate) national debt, and 3) Federal Reserve is once again a government agency. You betcha!

However, as semi-solid an arguement you guys put together, I have to ask this. What can actually be done about it? Protests will be dismissed, Congress and the President.... (would they even listen?), and it's not like you have their messages and meeting or even their whole roster. So, while you can raise a big ruckus, what's the point?

you really dont believe bush is a member? look at the member list..4 generations of the Bush family have been members...

9/11 was an inside job there is no doubt the goverment knew they would have been discovered and through forseinc science a trace would have been found. That is why chaney had what was left distroyed and recycled. Link all the evidence that has been given and researched about 9/11 and still you deny the possibility that its an inside job, that these members of the order of death and intelligent people are not acting stupid that they are not manipulating you into believing they are not the terrorist. Thats bull, they know exactly how the mind works, how people think and feel. They understand how to make the population and people work to their agenda.

1) create crisis, 2) opposition to crisis, to 3) effect the wanted solution.

[[KMA]Avenger]

@Phoenix of Terra,

its good that your starting to see the truth but again i urge you to keep asking questions because this goes far deeper than has been spoken about till now...Google this word "HAARP". i wont comment on it because i dont think this community is ready for what i would like to say next.
we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth) need to build some credibility before we show things that are just so unbelievable that even i'm left in awe at the scale of the deception thats going on and hidden in plain sight and for all to see, IF you ask the right questions.

btw, has anyone even tried to find out just who was in control of the WTC security? i know who is responsible for the lack of security but i want you guys to find out for yourselves because the media spoon feeds you disinformation and you will believe things easier when you find out for yourselves.

this is for those that still think 9/11 was pulled off by muslim terrorists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd8B-8Au-Wk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIx2CVRxRXg

[Fear Of The Duck]

@Phoenix of Terra,

its good that your starting to see the truth but again i urge you to keep asking questions because this goes far deeper than has been spoken about till now...Google this word "HAARP". i wont comment on it because i dont think this community is ready for what i would like to say next.
we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth) need to build some credibility before we show things that are just so unbelievable that even i'm left in awe at the scale of the deception thats going on and hidden in plain sight and for all to see, IF you ask the right questions.

wow! i was reading this for the lolz, but now you sound just like a religious fanatic
i know youse guys have really good intentions but imho youse have also way too vivid imagination and maybe watch too much tv and read too much of that stuff. start reading about ufos and see if ya won't believe in them.

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

[[KMA]Avenger]

not to sound hostile or anything but its your posts that make no sense

what gets me is that you can sit there and happily pass judgment on me and call me all sorts of names and what not but you haven't made a single coherent post or counter argument so please feel free to go but don't say you wasn't warned!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJHAp49 ... re=related

[smooshable]

This is not a debate, I'd love to have a debate on this stuff but this is not one.

A debate is where someone (in this case you) presents an argument. Other people who disagree (me, Corran etc) reply. You then reply to their rebuttal.

Saying we are wrong (with little to no actual examples / proofs of why) and then posting another 15 points (often completely unrelated) is you telling a story. I know, I know they're all part of the bigger picture but debates need scope and depth. Stories have width like this. So if you'd like to tell a story by all means, go ahead. I'll be waiting if you decide you'd like to discus any of my points.

But just quickly: Youtube is not a source. By all means link to youtube links if you have them but tell us who is on the youtube link, a brief synopsis of what they are discussing (4 or 5 words even) and maybe a few of their credentials (i.e. why are they someone we should listen to). Anyone can put a video on youtube, the mere fact that a video is on there means squat.

Google is our friend but believe it or not google is not behind you on this. It has no opinion on things it just delivers to you information on what you've asked. Of course if you you type "proof that the US government blew up the World Trade Center" you're going to get what ever any crazy kid with 20 mins and an internet connection has put up there. I just did a search for "proof that unicorns exist" and got 486 000 results. The fact that google can find other people that believe your theories does not mean that it can convince people that do not. In a debate it's not your oppositions job to go and do research to convince them selves, it's your job.

smoosh

[[KMA]Avenger]

@Phoenix of Terra,

its good that your starting to see the truth but again i urge you to keep asking questions because this goes far deeper than has been spoken about till now...Google this word "HAARP". i wont comment on it because i dont think this community is ready for what i would like to say next.
we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth) need to build some credibility before we show things that are just so unbelievable that even i'm left in awe at the scale of the deception thats going on and hidden in plain sight and for all to see, IF you ask the right questions.

wow! i was reading this for the lolz, but now you sound just like a religious fanatic
i know youse guys have really good intentions but imho youse have also way too vivid imagination and maybe watch too much tv and read too much of that stuff. start reading about ufos and see if ya won't believe in them.

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

i have 3 words for ya...prove me wrong!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOVQOi2GVvw

smoosh, i'll get back to ya later. i need to go to bed.

[Phoenix of Terra]

@Phoenix of Terra,

its good that your starting to see the truth but again i urge you to keep asking questions because this goes far deeper than has been spoken about till now...Google this word "HAARP". i wont comment on it because i dont think this community is ready for what i would like to say next.
we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth) need to build some credibility before we show things that are just so unbelievable that even i'm left in awe at the scale of the deception thats going on and hidden in plain sight and for all to see, IF you ask the right questions.

wow! i was reading this for the lolz, but now you sound just like a religious fanatic
i know youse guys have really good intentions but imho youse have also way too vivid imagination and maybe watch too much tv and read too much of that stuff. start reading about ufos and see if ya won't believe in them.

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

Agreed. Ifrit, I respect your dedication in your longer posts in this discussion and while there were parts I could seen (Bilderberg, etc), the pieces don't slip together so smoothly for me, for in the same way I have an open mind for opposition, I'm also skeptical. It's only partly you, I do the "I can see where you're coming from, but..." thing on everything.

However, Corran is right when he says you guys are sounding like religious fanatics. I actually read that post before he posted and could not think of anyway to reply, I was so shocked. Your absolute unshakable pessimism in the morals of my leaders (unless one of you professes to be American, something I didn't pick up on) is more unnerving than the subject which has brought it up, and your self-righteous zeal is mind-boggling. I have debated/argued with and against such unmovable mindsets before, and I'd rather not continue to against a position which will continue to dismiss things they don't agree with, redundantly bring up the same facts, some of which have been disproven or thrown into doubt, and try to use statistical and factual overloads to bring it's opposition.

And so I bow out.

That being said, some of your points have value. However, the web of intrigue which you imply ties it all together may merely be the shadowy fingers of Fate pulling the threads of our life into a direction which no man or woman can define. That is still how I view life, though I will keep myself alert in case it is not so.

Thank you, and good bye.

[urogard]

we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth)

if i'd knew the whole story you can bet your ass it would be over by now.

1) it's hard to separate that what's real and what is placed as misinformation, I cannot deny that I could and would eventually fall for the bad info too. But I know something

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

We'll see who makes more sense in about 6 months and 4 years

@ smoosh, yes so far you've posted the same kind of argument like avenger, when one said something the other simply disagreed, although on avenger's side he actually explained a bit sometimes.

@ phoenix: you know what they say about soldiers who disobey orders, kill one for treason and you might scare the others into following you, kill them all and you have no one to fight your war. (Yes it's minorly fatalistic but if it really comes down to this, you can't kill of a whole protesting population cos then you don't have anyone to rule)
So anyways back to my point, 10,000 unorganized protesters can keep up the police on their feet, 500 organized people and 10,000 protesters can take over a decently large city for a day or two until the army marches in.
1000 people will overrun any security you might have in a government building. (and seriously what's 1k or 10k people compared to the population of a country) even politicians are just people, an angry mob can make wonders if there's no police or wall in between the mob and the politicians.

If the people want to hear the truth, they can make themselves heard. If they don't, they will let themselves get conquered.

[Iƒrit]

@Phoenix of Terra,

its good that your starting to see the truth but again i urge you to keep asking questions because this goes far deeper than has been spoken about till now...Google this word "HAARP". i wont comment on it because i dont think this community is ready for what i would like to say next.
we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth) need to build some credibility before we show things that are just so unbelievable that even i'm left in awe at the scale of the deception thats going on and hidden in plain sight and for all to see, IF you ask the right questions.

wow! i was reading this for the lolz, but now you sound just like a religious fanatic
i know youse guys have really good intentions but imho youse have also way too vivid imagination and maybe watch too much tv and read too much of that stuff. start reading about ufos and see if ya won't believe in them.

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

Agreed. Ifrit, I respect your dedication in your longer posts in this discussion and while there were parts I could seen (Bilderberg, etc), the pieces don't slip together so smoothly for me, for in the same way I have an open mind for opposition, I'm also skeptical. It's only partly you, I do the "I can see where you're coming from, but..." thing on everything.

However, Corran is right when he says you guys are sounding like religious fanatics. I actually read that post before he posted and could not think of anyway to reply, I was so shocked. Your absolute unshakable pessimism in the morals of my leaders (unless one of you professes to be American, something I didn't pick up on) is more unnerving than the subject which has brought it up, and your self-righteous zeal is mind-boggling. I have debated/argued with and against such unmovable mindsets before, and I'd rather not continue to against a position which will continue to dismiss things they don't agree with, redundantly bring up the same facts, some of which have been disproven or thrown into doubt, and try to use statistical and factual overloads to bring it's opposition.

And so I bow out.

That being said, some of your points have value. However, the web of intrigue which you imply ties it all together may merely be the shadowy fingers of Fate pulling the threads of our life into a direction which no man or woman can define. That is still how I view life, though I will keep myself alert in case it is not so.

Thank you, and good bye.

where do I show any sort of "religious-fanatic attitude?? Im simly trying to sell you my research, my debate. Now you have no counter your just walking off...ok bye, but Im only asking you to look at what I have, do some research of your own and argue back as to why I am wrong...you dont have to prove me wrong, nor do you have to debate with me thats your choice. you entered here and posted your thought and opinions, but hardly had any backing to them, ok fine that cool, but I dont see your point in trying to call me a religious-fanatic of some sort when I have research and knowledge at my backing...please try to commit to a good debate.

[Iƒrit]

we (we being ifrit, urogard and myself and people who know the truth)

if i'd knew the whole story you can bet your ass it would be over by now.

1) it's hard to separate that what's real and what is placed as misinformation, I cannot deny that I could and would eventually fall for the bad info too. But I know something

i'm officially leaving this thread. it makes no sense

We'll see who makes more sense in about 6 months and 4 years

@ smoosh, yes so far you've posted the same kind of argument like avenger, when one said something the other simply disagreed, although on avenger's side he actually explained a bit sometimes.

@ phoenix: you know what they say about soldiers who disobey orders, kill one for treason and you might scare the others into following you, kill them all and you have no one to fight your war. (Yes it's minorly fatalistic but if it really comes down to this, you can't kill of a whole protesting population cos then you don't have anyone to rule)
So anyways back to my point, 10,000 unorganized protesters can keep up the police on their feet, 500 organized people and 10,000 protesters can take over a decently large city for a day or two until the army marches in.
1000 people will overrun any security you might have in a government building. (and seriously what's 1k or 10k people compared to the population of a country) even politicians are just people, an angry mob can make wonders if there's no police or wall in between the mob and the politicians.

If the people want to hear the truth, they can make themselves heard. If they don't, they will let themselves get conquered.

well said mate I couldnt have said that better myself. Its not the end, we can (Us americans) change our country back, but its not gonna start with electing someone to do something, again I say WE THE PEOPLE GIVE THE GOVVERMENT ITS POWER, not the other way around.

[Iƒrit]

This is not a debate, I'd love to have a debate on this stuff but this is not one.

A debate is where someone (in this case you) presents an argument. Other people who disagree (me, Corran etc) reply. You then reply to their rebuttal.

Saying we are wrong (with little to no actual examples / proofs of why) and then posting another 15 points (often completely unrelated) is you telling a story. I know, I know they're all part of the bigger picture but debates need scope and depth. Stories have width like this. So if you'd like to tell a story by all means, go ahead. I'll be waiting if you decide you'd like to discus any of my points.

But just quickly: Youtube is not a source. By all means link to youtube links if you have them but tell us who is on the youtube link, a brief synopsis of what they are discussing (4 or 5 words even) and maybe a few of their credentials (i.e. why are they someone we should listen to). Anyone can put a video on youtube, the mere fact that a video is on there means squat.

Google is our friend but believe it or not google is not behind you on this. It has no opinion on things it just delivers to you information on what you've asked. Of course if you you type "proof that the US government blew up the World Trade Center" you're going to get what ever any crazy kid with 20 mins and an internet connection has put up there. I just did a search for "proof that unicorns exist" and got 486 000 results. The fact that google can find other people that believe your theories does not mean that it can convince people that do not. In a debate it's not your oppositions job to go and do research to convince them selves, it's your job.

smoosh

your right you can google all kinds of things, kind of the purpose of a search engine, to find something your looking for information on. Yea I get your point your trying to skew with the unicorn thing, that however is something far more off-subject. You can however find other sources that are valid. And google isnt the only source availble there are several other news stations that have made legit reports about these points broguht forth. Can you debate or argue any of the topics brought up? And yes many of them if not all of them are linked to one another.

The HAARP issue is something I have been researching for sometime and I have yet to really get indepth with that subject its very fustrating and I have been trying to make more time to research that one.

Perhaps we can save that point for sometime in the future when people have responded to our posts we recently made. perhaps they should have all be put into one, and made in contex that linked them as one. My apologies Ill take more time and effort when posting further.

[smooshable]

How about you pick two of your favourate points and I will respond to them? We can do more later but there are so many points in play now that it is impossible for me to discuss them all without writing a book.

[Iƒrit]

How about you pick two of your favourate points and I will respond to them? We can do more later but there are so many points in play now that it is impossible for me to discuss them all without writing a book.

lol I love the comment about writting a book...thats fantastic well said.

ok let me review your correct there is a lot to go over at this moment and more to come as I prepare for the next , and I will edit this post in a ffew to choose 2 points.

Point 1 - viewtopic.php?p=1407384#p1407384

Point 2 - viewtopic.php?p=1407435#p1407435

in point 2, I am refering to the bottom part regarding Jeff King.
also I want to point to something I post before point 2 which directly relates to point 2,
viewtopic.php?p=1406320#p1406320

I'll let you know that I have tons of research on this topic so prepare for a long discussion my friend, perhaps a 30 rack is in order for this one, or better yet a keg or two?

Cheers

PS - I was acually hoping for 3 since I brought up 3 really good points
I guess the third we will have to get to after these first 2.

[Iƒrit]

jack your more paranoid then me...

"The Individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
~J. Edgar Hoover
33° Scottish Rite, Grand Cross, Director of the FBI and Warren Commission

[[KMA]Avenger]

it was NEVER my intention to start a collage here on the forum, my intention was to give all you enough information to get you guys to question and ask if what i say COULD be true and for you to go find out for yourselves and then come back and comment, if none of you will do any research then how can you argue against from a point of ignorance?

and as for religious fruit cakes...well watch this and have a good laugh, it will also show you everything thats wrong with religion...


Christian nuts exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq87S5eX ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m6lXi0E ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2hffM19 ... re=related

@smoosh...

you ask me to prove what i say is true well, i've been a member of this community for a long time and have been digging for even longer than that but have resisted making a topic about or commenting on this kind of subject matter till recently, why?

because as i said, i have been digging for a long time (as well as having lost my bookmarks a short while back as i mentioned on page 1) so i'm relying heavily on youtube to back me up.

there have been plenty of times when someone would tell me something or i would read an article and go verify if there is even the smallest amount of credibility because thats how you find out the truth. i can sit here and tell all sorts of fantastic story's but when i provide proof or some kind or evidence to back me up i'm thought of as a whack job or a fanatic zealot, i assure you this not the case, far from it.

quoting corran...

so youse say if one crashes a plane into a skyscraper the skyscraper won't fall down?? hmm.. there's only one way to prove it...
*goes to buy plane tickets*

and when i provide him proof i get snide and sarcastic comments and am called a fanatic,WTH, you guys asked for some proof and i provided it...how about you guys do some figuring?

@smoosh,
you was right, i chose the wrong name for this thread, so name changed to fit the subject matter.
its also not my intention to brow beat anyone or drive anyone from the thread, so in that spirit i hope the subject will continue to have your participation and for corran and phoenix to continue with their input, but can we please keep snide and sarcastic comments to a minimum because this matter deserves serious consideration.