Issues with Jack

[GeneralChaos]

This was a thread about Jack. Please keep it on topic. If you would like to complain about another mod, that's another thread. I am amending the rules to allow mods to defend themselves, but only the mod who is and feels insulted. This will prevent clutter from forming.

Bill

I agree, just look at this thread, how can he still be a mod, shesh,

Also giving Auriel's track record in this community i dont think she should be posting in this thread, shes not exactly "honest"

[FreeSpirit]

A mod has to stick to the rules aswell as every user on these forums. Also Jack claiming people should contact him is incorrect afterall we got an ombudsmen for that. Its bill's role to solve the issues between the community and the mods and the problem just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I am wondering why i even bother to keep posting as nothing will be done anyway (no offense to bill but 1 man cant fight corrupt actions alone) Jack insulting other users esspecially as mod just goes out of way and then they fire 1 good mod (teal'auc) while she always did a good job modding. Ah well forums have changed again and this time it will follow by heads being rolled by the community. Sadly this time noone is able to solve these matters untill smoosh, jack and heck even auriel are gone from the staff.

[TheRook]

as I recall Auriel was given the position of mod by Jack without most of the other mods knowing... smoosh probably did tho and after all smoosh rules everything and nobody else should get a say...

TheRook

[Legendary Apophis]

All this whinning is starting to be annoying. Stop whinning about mods and admins people!
It's not like MOST of you weren't here since 2005/2006 in this forum and know the history of it, the history regarding mods/admins and the "tyranny".
The mod team will never be perfect, deal with it. Human being isn't meant to be perfect.
That's not by saying get rid of mods that it will solve things! New will come, and eventually some will act "same" more or less. I said it already, and I've to say it again, because apparently none of you realize that there will always be staff you'll not like, that's how world is, nothing can please everyone!
Go on and fire the so called bad mods. I'll laugh for sure when there will be those issues again popping up later, with new mod team. Do NOT say I'm wrong. You know this happend in past, happens, and WILL happen anyway. Or do I have to remind people the nice forum history we have?
Go on and say I'm a mod muppet, it would just mean you just hide from the truth, you KNOW I'm right, you just don't want to accept it!
When mods are too much into the rules you complain.
When they are more acting "freely", you complain.
When they are posting funny things, you complain.
When they are acting "neutral" you complain.
When they are acting biased...you complain!
As I said, a mod will never please everyone.
I am here since february 2005, visited regularly those forums, so please no "you aren't aware of etc..."!

EDIT: I think it's time you all realize we are talking about a free to join forum based on a mmorpg game. And that you all are taking it way too seriously (complaining ones). It is only a forum! And compared to history, what happens now is little to nothing. So nomatter how you like this, even not taking into account fact it's only a forum, there was alot worse happening in past. So time to stop to complain, unless of course, you want the same happening like in past, but not what you all want, isn't it?

[Phoenix of Terra]

Shut up.



Now that I've got everyone's attention in a manner most unlike me, I'd like to bring up Pianomutt's post again, seeing as some seem to have missed it.

This was a thread about Jack. Please keep it on topic. If you would like to complain about another mod, that's another thread. I am amending the rules to allow mods to defend themselves, but only the mod who is and feels insulted. This will prevent clutter from forming.

Bill

I don't want to put words in Bill's mouth, seeing as that's what got us here in first place. But if you want to complain about Auriel (her spam, her past, her gaining of her position), do it somewhere else. If you want to complain about smoosh (his choosing of mods), do it somewhere else. If you want to scream to the world about how awful the mod team is, join the chorus of tha ages (you're not the first, and won't be the last), and do it somewhere else. I'm not condoning any of those actions, but this is not the thread to do so.

Furthermore, people in this thread are acting in ways unbecoming of an investigation. It's looking more like a political debate, tearing into each others character in an attempt to win some points (that goes for members of both sides, though not all). Please act with a little decorum. Perhaps a format of posting what happened, where it happened (link to the offensive post), and why it offends you would be better than raising the voices of the people.

Sorry if I'm speaking out of place Bill. I was getting tired of the mudslinging in this thread.

Sincerely,
An Exasperated Phoenix

[Severian]

@sev: if you didnt want the argument in the public, WHY POST HERE? you reek of hypocricy. also you complain about rule breaking KNOWINGLY? Jack himself admitted he was unaware. take the time and READ his posts before you complain about them in the form of some inane dribble.

A spammer comming to Jack's defence, no suprise seeing a satellite poster being used. This is a place specifically created to lodge complaints, I set the context for the complaint and presented my case to the Ombudsman. This is the way things are done here.

The rule at the time was that mods were not allowed to post in here. Jack posted. I then showed Jack the rule he missed. He then chose to continue posting and in an abusive manner.

You're addressing me directly, if you don't want me replying to you then don't address me directly.

I said specifically in the post(s) above you did not have permission. You are knowingly breaking rules in an attempt to spite us for lodging complaints against you.

then dont lodge the complaints publicly, less you want a public rebuttle.

@sweet revenge: notice jack hasnt replied anymore? duh?

This is not a debate, this is a place to present a case to the Ombudsman. I followed the infrastructure, Jack chose to go against it despite being told that the way he was doing things went against the grain and that he was intentionally breaking rules.

How am I a Hypocrit for using the processes in the correct manner while the person I am lodging a complaint against is storming in here specifically and intentionally breaking the rules to spite those who are unhappy with his attitute and performance as a SuperMod?

Perhaps you should have spent the time and read up on the section and the posts rather than tell me off. I used the right place in the right manner, Jack did not and even after I directly informed him of that, he chose to continue until Smoosh(?) told him to buzz off.

Jack's own replies here are proof enough of our case is all that I have to add.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Take it to PMs if you have a problem with each other.

This was a thread about Jack. Please keep it on topic. If you would like to complain about another mod, that's another thread. I am amending the rules to allow mods to defend themselves, but only the mod who is and feels insulted. This will prevent clutter from forming.

Bill

[Eternity]

@sev: if you didnt want the argument in the public, WHY POST HERE? you reek of hypocricy. also you complain about rule breaking KNOWINGLY? Jack himself admitted he was unaware. take the time and READ his posts before you complain about them in the form of some inane dribble.

A spammer comming to Jack's defence, no suprise seeing a satellite poster being used. This is a place specifically created to lodge complaints, I set the context for the complaint and presented my case to the Ombudsman. This is the way things are done here.

The rule at the time was that mods were not allowed to post in here. Jack posted. I then showed Jack the rule he missed. He then chose to continue posting and in an abusive manner.

Interesting mechanics..
Spammer? Satellite poster? Irrelevant, failed attempt at degrading Soulless' post due to his background as a spammer. It doesn't detract from the truth of his words..
Impressive how you avoid his point, by the way.. being that if you don't want an argument about it, you should have PMed the Ombudsman. It's a logical consequence of the fact that you post an accusation of sorts, and then expect everyone to roll over and die?
Yes, it is standard policy to post your complaint here and have the Ombudsman check things out. Yes, mods are limitedly allowed to respond.. but there is as of yet no such limit on the contribution of other users. Counterexamples to for example accusations of neglect are important to the issues described here.

You're addressing me directly, if you don't want me replying to you then don't address me directly.

I said specifically in the post(s) above you did not have permission. You are knowingly breaking rules in an attempt to spite us for lodging complaints against you.

then dont lodge the complaints publicly, less you want a public rebuttle.

This is not a debate, this is a place to present a case to the Ombudsman. I followed the infrastructure, Jack chose to go against it despite being told that the way he was doing things went against the grain and that he was intentionally breaking rules.

Sadly enough.. it IS a debate. The wrong parties have meddled in it, granted, but complaint lodgings are never absolute. People who have NO problems with the issue can always lodge a countercomplaint, which makes the whole deal come across as quite the debate. Or would you want people to lodge a complaint against the people who lodged a complaint about something, because these people have absolutely no problem with the something the complainers complained about.
Still with me? Good, I thought you would.
Trust me.. filing complaints is not without counters. Maybe the term 'debate' goes a bit far.. but you certainly cannot expect people to stay quiet when they see injustices, much like the people who saw other injustices decided to complain.

How am I a Hypocrit for using the processes in the correct manner while the person I am lodging a complaint against is storming in here specifically and intentionally breaking the rules to spite those who are unhappy with his attitute and performance as a SuperMod?

You are a hypocrite, you know it, I know it, yet evidence to that fact will remain confidential. *runs*
Funny how you use this.. reversal.. yes. You are 'accused' of being a hypocrite for hardly specified reasons. One could think of a gazillion reasons for that, but you pick these things of which you are sure you did them correctly. Smart move.. I am sure your accuser will pick up and point out what he meant with you being a hypocrite..
All that said, being a hypocrite is not all that bad.. really. It's quite cute sometimes.

Perhaps you should have spent the time and read up on the section and the posts rather than tell me off. I used the right place in the right manner, Jack did not and even after I directly informed him of that, he chose to continue until Smoosh(?) told him to buzz off.

Yes, you did. Well done. Soulless' criticism did not stem from that though.

Jack's own replies here are proof enough of our case is all that I have to add.

Dubious, but I have no further comment on that.

[Solus]

a final note before i take this to PM's...

A spammer comming to Jack's defence, no suprise seeing a satellite poster being used.

i find it insulting that you see me as a satellite to be 'used'. i came and posted here NOT due to jacks request, OR any passive action on his behalf. i posted here COMPLETELY on my own accord. dont insult me in this manner and ASSUME im a puppet or satellite as you so condescendingly put it.

The rule at the time was that mods were not allowed to post in here. Jack posted. I then showed Jack the rule he missed. He then chose to continue posting and in an abusive manner.

that in no way excuses your attitude towards him or others.

then dont lodge the complaints publicly, less you want a public rebuttle.

guess what you two made it? a debate. Duh.

How am I a Hypocrit for using the processes in the correct manner while the person I am lodging a complaint against is storming in here specifically and intentionally breaking the rules to spite those who are unhappy with his attitute and performance as a SuperMod?

Perhaps you should have spent the time and read up on the section and the posts rather than tell me off. I used the right place in the right manner, Jack did not and even after I directly informed him of that, he chose to continue until Smoosh(?) told him to buzz off.

Jack's own replies here are proof enough of our case is all that I have to add.

Number 1, i didnt say in which way your a hypocrite. i was referring to your very own condescending attitude and the fact that you seem to think that you complain, then talk to the ombudsman and oh so kindly towards jack disregard common courtesy, and have rules set in place specifically so you can talk about things, make unwarranted accusations etc while jack has to sit by and watch? yes he did break a 'rule' on posting, however that was when he was UNAWARE. soon after, the Ombudsman amended this rule.

POINT 1: If you wanted to do something, MAKE A THREAD, ASK FOR IT TO BE LOCKED IMMEDIATELY, OUTLINING YOUR CONCERNS AND REQUESTING PEOPLE TALK TO BILL ON THEIR OWN ACCORD, PRIVATELY, THEN LEAVE BILL AND JACK TO DISCUSS THE MATTER.

THAT is the role of the ombudsman, to MEDIATE. so far, your constant slandering and condescending is escalating the situation to an unneccessary level. the way you once again condescend against me just because of a posting preference is JUST AS insulting as jacks direct approach. Furthermore, i dont appreciate it, i can and will have action taken against you if you dont.

Number 2, researching the area? oh yes. the ombudsmans corner. an area to mediated from, like mentioned above. your posts as ive already stated are of no help to the situation, another aspect of your hypocricy.

Number 3, you come here presenting one side of the coin. I come here representing another. do not act as though me and my opinion are insignificant or not worthy to be posted. this is a public forum, get used to it. you dont HAVE to use it. you dont HAVE to rub moderators/admins the wrong way. so dont attempt to enforce something beyond your powers or understanding.

if you have anything more to say to me or others, do so via PM. and as ive already said, stop condescending. your just as bad as jack in an indirect manner.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Soulless, I've already talked to Sev about this in PMs. Please do that same. And Sev, keep your response in PMs too, please. So...

Take it to PMs if you have a problem with each other.

This was a thread about Jack. Please keep it on topic. If you would like to complain about another mod, that's another thread. I am amending the rules to allow mods to defend themselves, but only the mod who is and feels insulted. This will prevent clutter from forming.

Bill

I'm going to repeat myself again. If you want to debate with each other the aspects of posts or other mods, do it in PMs. This thread is about Jack and there is no need to have Bill go wading through four pages of arguments to get one post about the Jack situations.

BTW, when people finally get that message, please feel free to delete my posts. Until then, I will be playing sheepdog and nipping at those who go astray. Don't like it? Stay on topic.

[pianomutt20000]

Long convo dude.


Here is what I have to say. Jack has agreed to not do the mismod quote thing anymore. That settles the matter unless smoosh decides to do more or less. PM me with any concerns.



Bill


This matter is now closed, your posts are for the most part safe from jack the bunny ripper.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Long convo dude.

You can say that again...

[Solus]

Long convo dude.

You can say that again...

sorry for helping to clutter this bill.

[Legendary Apophis]

Sometimes I believe people don't listen to my posts...well, when the mods will be fired (hopefully they NOT), new ones being here, and eventually problems starting again, I'll come around, and say:

I told you so!

[TheRook]

Long convo dude.


Here is what I have to say. Jack has agreed to not do the mismod quote thing anymore. That settles the matter unless smoosh decides to do more or less. PM me with any concerns.



Bill


This matter is now closed, your posts are for the most part safe from jack the bunny ripper.

I'm sorry Bill but in this situation Smoosh is one of Jacks best friends and vice versa. If you believe you will get a fair decision from Smoosh regarding Jack you are sadly mistaken.

This should be made as a choice for all the mods if they want to work with Jack or not.

TheRook