kiss the internet goodbye or get off your fat arse and do...

[Iƒrit]

Edit - Im glad to hear that Texans are advicatly fighting the open border and construction of the big highway, as they say 'god bless texas'

Never heard of "The Big Highway", but the open boarders are just ridiculous and the number one source of crime in this state, and nation.

the highway I am refering to is the french construction that was/is trying to be built with american citizens payng tolls to the french on this planned highway.

[Legendary Apophis]

another example: in my family, 3/4 of the people here (including myself) are legal voters. in Australia, each one of us gets our say. in some countries where it is assumed that the father or the man of the house is the authority, he can decide for the other voters, ie the father goes to the polling booths and claims 3 votes for representative 'X' despite the allegiances of the other two voters to representatives 'Y' and 'Z', that would be completely normal and acceptable. as such if i were to turn and claim that his decision did not represent me, being the eldest son, I would be looked upon in the community as a delinquant, a criminal. These countries would look upon democracy in the western world in Australia, America, England etc. and consider our countries are in a form of anarchy.

What...the...hell?
I hope no "democracy" is like this because that'd be defnitely NOT a democracy

Robert Mugabe's regime is a good example to all those anti democracy people there might be on these forums, he claims its a democracy, but the leader of opposition and its lieutenants are thrown in jail few days before elections.
All the dictatorships have been fails, economically talking, and human rights talking. When you force people to do something, they won't do it the same and as efficiently as if they were meant to do it, but without threats or menace. A dictatorship is a fail in itself. I won't give out my arguments now, unless I'm needed to do so.
That's one of most basic things you learn on management.
A manager who's autoritarist/dictatorial will have its workers work only when he's here, as he poses his threat only when present, they won't be motivated for work, and hence, quality will be less good. The workers would feel they are considered like machines and wouldn't try to improve what they do/contribute to innovation.
The one who enables everything, isn't a solution either, workers will become lazy as no consequences would happen and they would think they rule all and the work wouldn't be done.
The one who listens to his/her workers has the best results most of time, knows when the workers are doing bad, but he/she would listen to them when they have sugestions to improve the productivity or conditions. Profiting to everyone.

Edit - Im glad to hear that Texans are advicatly fighting the open border and construction of the big highway, as they say 'god bless texas'

Never heard of "The Big Highway", but the open boarders are just ridiculous and the number one source of crime in this state, and nation.

the highway I am refering to is the french construction that was/is trying to be built with american citizens payng tolls to the french on this planned highway.

Great news to me I'm french and I never heard of this lmao

[cloak]

i personally like democracy where everyone gets a say as opposed to the 'head of the house' concept and even greater. my personal feelings on the zimbabwe elections are that it isnt a true democracy, but providing my examples, what is democracy?

simple answer? we cant define democracy. We can define our perception of democracy though. Kind of sad though. I also personally feel we take our form of democracy for granted.

Sorry, I didnt read the rest of the topic, had to stop here! I stay in South Africa, border country to Zimbabwe and I have many friends in the South African Armed Forces, some of which are sitting in ghillie suites on the border/deeper in the country awaiting orders for thier targets! I have others that are currently flying choppers(yes, we have choppers , and no, there are no lions walking around the towns ) on the borders awaiting word from their superiors! Zimbabe is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship masked by "democracy", plain and simple... So please nobody throw mud on democracy by saying Zim is a dimocracy...

Side Note 1: Auriel, I agree that democracy is not the best nor the last form of Govt. we will see...Every previous govt. type has failed in the past and will continue to do so because ppl will NEVER be 100% happy

Side Note 2: Bush and Brown, stay the F away from Zim, if you fight Bob, you fight China...and China won't be a pushover like all the other weak nations you think you own...Also, they don't have OIL...

EDIT 1 and SIDE NOTE 3 - If nobody ever sees me again after this post...You know why

[Legendary Apophis]

There's not any better form than democracy if we look on all kinds of governement types we had in human history, being like 6000 years old about it.
Otherwise they would have been taken already. So instead of saying democracy isn't best, while it's obviously best with what we know of now, maybe time to think about something "better" that isn't yet known because it hasn't been yet thought of/practiced, if democracy isn't that good eh?

[Solus]

cloak, pops, i didnt say that i beleived that its a democracy. infact i agree, the regime i see as a dictatorship.

my point wasnt with what i beleive, its that within the cultures there has been dictatorship inside of the democracy. my examples of 'head of the home' and the English Feudal era support this. in mugabe's mind, he labels it a democracy, whereas lots of others dont. my main idea was that it is ultimately up to the individual, but mainly the culture.

And sadly the one whos opinion matters in zimbabwe is Megabe. sad, unfortunate, but true.

and :lol @ jack

you should come here and see how cheap our petrol is... theyre almost giving it away

[cloak]

Also, they don't have OIL...

I'm so glad that we invaded Iraq for their oil making our's so cheap, at $4 a gallon it's the cheapest it's ever been and only been getting cheaper since we invaded. I'm also glad that we have two whole oil companies out there, and the other nations only have a few dozen.

Lol and come visit here, our price is amazingly cheap...almost R10 a litre and at R100 its barely gets me to work and home every week and I work about 2 KM from work

you should come here and see how cheap our petrol is... theyre almost giving it away

Feel the wrath of fossil fuels...
EDIT 1: And Price Fixing

[Phoenix of Terra]

Also, they don't have OIL...

I'm so glad that we invaded Iraq for their oil making our's so cheap, at $4 a gallon it's the cheapest it's ever been and only been getting cheaper since we invaded. I'm also glad that we have two whole oil companies out there, and the other nations only have a few dozen.

As one comedian has said: "If I invade IHOP, pancakes are going to be cheaper at my house!"

Strange though that the US is the largest contributor of troops to, and takes a beating on the international arena for, Iraq, and yet companies from nations which condemn and mock American have beaten us in setting up outlets in Iraq. What type of BS is this?

[[KMA]Avenger]

Also, they don't have OIL...

Strange though that the US is the largest contributor of troops to, and takes a beating on the international arena for, Iraq, and yet companies from nations which condemn and mock American have beaten us in setting up outlets in Iraq. What type of BS is this?

thats because america is not a country as many falsely believe, America is in fact a corporation and the president is head of the corporation...

the bushes are also cousins of the queen of england. she's not the innocent old hen you think she is, do you (or anyone else) seriously think the British monarchy have ever forgiven or forgotten the humiliation of being thrown out of their colony?

thats why Brit company's get the lion's share.

PS, America also takes the beating on the international stage because the brits have learned to mask the smell of their feaseas and the rest of Europe couldnt form an opinion if they had 1!

[[KMA]Avenger]

Wow.... that was inline with alien conspiracies and crabpeople....

aliens are not fact, what i said is in actual fact...fact

edit.

never heard of crabpeople so cant comment...will go research it

[Psi Kiya Trist]

All the dictatorships have been fails.

that's a lie, King Solomon was an excellent King, caring for his people, while still ruling as sole ruler.

A dictatorship is a fail in itself.

again, lie, see above.

That's one of most basic things you learn on management.
A manager who's autoritarist/dictatorial will have its workers work only when he's here, as he poses his threat only when present, they won't be motivated for work, and hence, quality will be less good. The workers would feel they are considered like machines and wouldn't try to improve what they do/contribute to innovation.

Authoristic/dictatorial is not the only ways of running a dictatorship.
ever heard of a Benevolent Dictatorship? it functions on the principle of the leader the "Dictator" listening, and caring for the people under him, providing for their needs, wants, and making them capable of the best they can be.

a Benevolent Dictator is hard when he needs to be, and soft when he needs to be. he understands human emotions, and wants, so that he can get the most out of his people, while still caring for them.

the problem with a Benevolent Dictatorship, is Succession(as with all early empires/kingdoms) who would rule the country if those appointed to the position don't follow the example left by their predecessor?

it is my belief that the Benevolent Dictatorship, is the most effective form of government that man knows currently, the problem is building a model that will last more than one generation.

Democracy works when everyone cares, and everyone wants to be a part of the process, and government.

the other main government type is that of the utopia, which is ironically "true communism" in that everyone works for the good of the community. decisions are reached together, and all the people work together. the problem being, that man is inherently selfish, and would most likely put his own needs/wants over those of the rest of the community, which makes this government type unfeasible on the individual level.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

[Legendary Apophis]

Your type of governing seems to be really vulnerable to priviledges. I mean aristocracy behaving good with the king/queen, so (s)he's good with them, those on his/her circle.
So they could take advantage of king/queen...it happens those days on several countries, where elite is treated well while rest is not even considered. It's just who follows most king/queen who's best rewarded.

[Psi Kiya Trist]

Your type of governing seems to be really vulnerable to priviledges. I mean aristocracy behaving good with the king/queen, so (s)he's good with them, those on his/her circle.
So they could take advantage of king/queen...it happens those days on several countries, where elite is treated well while rest is not even considered. It's just who follows most king/queen who's best rewarded.

the bold disqualifies your argument relative to my statement.

a true Benevolent Dictatorship has no bias for classes, and any true student of human interaction and thought would know that the "lower classes" are just as important as the higher ones, which was my point.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

[urogard]

I agree with Psi that the best form of government is that of a "benevolent dictatorship" as outlined in his post, and that it is damn near impossible for it to last longer then a generation.

unless you manage to create a system which has the ability to select only those who are capable of such benevolent leadership

however on a long enough timescale, no matter how well thought-through system you can come up with, it will one day break down for whatever reason

Empires rise and fall, and then the cycle repeats.

[Legendary Apophis]

I'm a democrat at heart, try anything you want I'll not change my vision!

[urogard]

You need to reread our posts, such empires generally break down during the second generation....

everything is bound to break down eventually. It's not a question of "if" it's a question of "when", and fortunately you can extend the "when" through good planning.