Are you pro european or anti euro?

[Legendary Apophis]

I'm not talking about the Lisbon treaty here, but EU in general, Maastricht and Rome treaties etc

I voted yes, of course!

[Fear Of The Duck]

since i know what the eu project is all about and also know that these ideas are against basic laws of nature, society and economy, i'm against it.

well, to be fair, when the eu idea was born ppl didn't have a clue about basic laws of nature, society and economy but now... i dunno.. is this just a power of a beaurocratic inertia or are they all imbeciles there? (presumably both)...

if someone comes up with an idea for a united europe in sync with the basic laws i will support it with both hands and legs.

[Legendary Apophis]

Lack of interest from people to this topic

[[KMA]Avenger]

sorry jim but i am NOT in favor of an EU in any shape or form. i AM in favor of each european country having their own sovereignty and rights and i think our politicians (all of them) are traitors of the highest order!

[Legendary Apophis]

i'd like to see people who vote post why etc...some didn't yet! (voting for 1 or 2 option I mean)

I don't want of United States of Europe don't get me wrong, but this everyone cares for his own country is a bit boring and had to go way in my opinion. I'm all in favour of sharing things with other European countries to show Europe isn't nothing and that we can compete with the US in the commerce and economy! Divided we are weak, united we are strong, or somthing like that

[Phoenix of Terra]

i'd like to see people who vote post why etc...some didn't yet! (voting for 1 or 2 option I mean)

I don't want of United States of Europe don't get me wrong, but this everyone cares for his own country is a bit boring and had to go way in my opinion. I'm all in favour of sharing things with other European countries to show Europe isn't nothing and that we can compete with the US in the commerce and economy! Divided we are weak, united we are strong, or somthing like that

Join or Die?

[Legendary Apophis]

It's a serious topic...

[Phoenix of Terra]

Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

[Cole]

Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

[Mordack]

Diehard Euroskeptic, here.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

At the beginning of the French and Indian War (Seven Year War for Europe I think), the colonies were trying to build a greater unity. This whole independent minded thing is nothing new in America. Each of the original 13 came from different backgrounds. Massachussets was formed by Puritans avoiding Anglican harrassment, Virginia was founded by a company hoping to strike gold and nearly died off because of it. Border wars scuffles between colonies would have been more common if they didn't have outside enemies in the French and the Native Americans.

The cartoon was drawn by Benjamin Franklin about a month before the Albany Conference (1763). It was supposed to encourage the colonies to join together to fight the external threats. As it was, only 7 of the 13 sent delegates. But they managed to put together a charter for self rule, which was therefore rejected by Britain because it gave too much leeway and the colonies because it didn't give enough.

However, this same debate that Europe is going through is (on the surface, as Europe has a huge amount of historical baggage in comparison) rather similar to the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debate that erupted following the writing of the Constitution and during the movement to dissolve the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, the United States were a group of colonies who had very loose association. Border and tariff wars were rather common between these new states. As it is, the Constitution gave a higher power which was able to prevent the squabbling states from fighting and began to pay off foriegn debt, etc.

Yeah, Europe is in a different place than America was at that time. But the debate for a centralized government still seems similar, from an American's perspective. Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i'd like to see people who vote post why etc...some didn't yet! (voting for 1 or 2 option I mean)

I don't want of United States of Europe don't get me wrong, but this everyone cares for his own country is a bit boring and had to go way in my opinion. I'm all in favour of sharing things with other European countries to show Europe isn't nothing and that we can compete with the US in the commerce and economy! Divided we are weak, united we are strong, or somthing like that

i never said we should all close our borders and hide behind them jim, i'm not a xenophobe lol.

i am in favor of trade and and exchange of ideas and having an open border, but i am NOT in favor of engineered and forced mass immigration and so long as these fecking banking are in control that is exactly what we have, engineered and forced mass immigration.

Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

they're "shooting" for a dictatorship and Tony Blair wants to be Hitler....i mean he wants to be its head.

[Evilevi777]

Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

At the beginning of the French and Indian War (Seven Year War for Europe I think), the colonies were trying to build a greater unity. This whole independent minded thing is nothing new in America. Each of the original 13 came from different backgrounds. Massachussets was formed by Puritans avoiding Anglican harrassment, Virginia was founded by a company hoping to strike gold and nearly died off because of it. Border wars scuffles between colonies would have been more common if they didn't have outside enemies in the French and the Native Americans.

The cartoon was drawn by Benjamin Franklin about a month before the Albany Conference (1763). It was supposed to encourage the colonies to join together to fight the external threats. As it was, only 7 of the 13 sent delegates. But they managed to put together a charter for self rule, which was therefore rejected by Britain because it gave too much leeway and the colonies because it didn't give enough.

However, this same debate that Europe is going through is (on the surface, as Europe has a huge amount of historical baggage in comparison) rather similar to the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debate that erupted following the writing of the Constitution and during the movement to dissolve the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, the United States were a group of colonies who had very loose association. Border and tariff wars were rather common between these new states. As it is, the Constitution gave a higher power which was able to prevent the squabbling states from fighting and began to pay off foriegn debt, etc.

Yeah, Europe is in a different place than America was at that time. But the debate for a centralized government still seems similar, from an American's perspective. Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

i actually learned about this only 2 or 3 weeks ago in classes, very nice , and oh yeah btw, i don't really have any idea about this EU thing, i'm from the states

[[KMA]Avenger]

Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

At the beginning of the French and Indian War (Seven Year War for Europe I think), the colonies were trying to build a greater unity. This whole independent minded thing is nothing new in America. Each of the original 13 came from different backgrounds. Massachussets was formed by Puritans avoiding Anglican harrassment, Virginia was founded by a company hoping to strike gold and nearly died off because of it. Border wars scuffles between colonies would have been more common if they didn't have outside enemies in the French and the Native Americans.

The cartoon was drawn by Benjamin Franklin about a month before the Albany Conference (1763). It was supposed to encourage the colonies to join together to fight the external threats. As it was, only 7 of the 13 sent delegates. But they managed to put together a charter for self rule, which was therefore rejected by Britain because it gave too much leeway and the colonies because it didn't give enough.

However, this same debate that Europe is going through is (on the surface, as Europe has a huge amount of historical baggage in comparison) rather similar to the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debate that erupted following the writing of the Constitution and during the movement to dissolve the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, the United States were a group of colonies who had very loose association. Border and tariff wars were rather common between these new states. As it is, the Constitution gave a higher power which was able to prevent the squabbling states from fighting and began to pay off foriegn debt, etc.

Yeah, Europe is in a different place than America was at that time. But the debate for a centralized government still seems similar, from an American's perspective. Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

i actually learned about this only 2 or 3 weeks ago in classes, very nice , and oh yeah btw, i don't really have any idea about this EU thing, i'm from the states

do you know about the "NAU"?

[Evilevi777]

d'wha?