tributes...WTH are you kidding me or what???

[[KMA]Avenger]

true on all counts but meh, try telling that to people

[Brdavs]

@curomo

Well each gets hisown experiences but it would once again seem that the experiences you`ve had a only minority share with you, and the majority experianced them the other way around heh... What can I say, you should have contacted me


And what is the difference between asking disbandment or forbiding to lead or ever to return and.... heck, I cant think of a move comparable with such **Filtered** only put forward to ensure log term domination. You think of something.
But the difference would be that extorting consist of approaching a random person with threaths of harm/war if he does not pay. ( I cant believe I have to explain the definition to you, after all ,such actions of the leader of your mighty empire himself brought uppon the creation of purgatory - for people being extorted to have a place to run to heh...)
We merely ask for a reparation bill and a guarantee our trust wont be abused when we let people out of the war they started. How many times do you get to punch someone1 in the face and then just walk out of the bar when you please heh? Heck no, the party just started at that point. You should have thought of that sooner. Call it a tax on stupidity for picking fights you cant handle and following daft orders if you will.


And we`re still trying to pin the Educators to TLE and cry "shame" eh heh... We`ll if you`ve been around as long as you say I`m sure you remember the numerous groups and alliances employing the same philosophy and their composition. (Noobhunters etc. And ofcourse things like bloody sunday heh...). but heck, I see Geisha reading this thread... I`ll leave it to her to explain to you what educating was all about heh, if I recall she was quite enthusiastic up to the point the order to drop the hot pottattoe to the oppositions lap was given heh... I`m sure you put little heed to my words so perhaps one of "yourown" paticipants will have more success explaining heh.

[Lord Ho Chi Man]

6) You agree not to return to any TJP member team or ally after this conflict.

This point is somewhat disturbing and even if retracted at a later date due to political pressure, the Ideology and intentions behind it has been revealed, which is something the community will not likely forget.

That is, dictating what people can and cannot do beyond the scope of the conflict with the intention of permanently reducing and destroying all rival powers through this indirect enticement. Physically breaking alliances is no longer as easy as it once was due to people realising that even with 0 stats, they can still do large amounts of damage to an empire. So other means to destroy alliances have to be conjured which this is an obvious end result. It took a while for Omega to show its true colours after playing the righteous card for so long and accusing/abusing TLE and subsequently Janus over naq tributes.

You see, I'd rather spend a day’s income paying a TJP tribute than:

A) Never being allowed to play with my mates/same side as my mates ever again.

B) Letting FUALL try to dismantle/disband the only alliances capable of standing up to it by syphoning off members, destroying absolutely any competition or competitiveness left in the game and effectively leaving the server in the hands of a 300+ member entity where the next largest is barely 1/3 of that.

Dangerous game destroying times these are and that’s why I'm glad I'm fighting for the side that is made up of separate entities united by a common cause who do not pose such a threat to the stability of the game and the diversity of the forums.

Let the community pause for a second to think about the long term outcomes of a FUALL victory and the long term outcomes of a TJP victory, the state of the game and the state of the forums and the purpose behind the two super-powers and reason for their expansions. Another thing to think about:

If there were no Janus, would there still be a FUALL?
If there were no FUALL, would there still be a Janus?

Yet people still wonder why basically every other power still left in the game has sided up for one last stand.

A TJP Tribute is a hundred fold better than the disgusting attempt FUALL have made of permanently ruining the game, but people are too proud and tag blind to see just how unhealthy large entities are for the game and for the forums.

generally speaking and not pointing fingers but...the GA and in particular OE were always disliked because of the strangle hold they had on the game, i remember MANY posts about how big n bad the GA and omega were but i also remember telling MANY people to stop moaning they got bit when they were trying to grab the lion by the tail (lol)....i never had a single bad run in with any of the so called "big guys" (with the exception of the omega/Ak war which started due to puck not being able to keep things secret), could that be because i never messed with them?

i NEVER met anyone who said they were massed for no reason by either omega or any of their allies, i met plenty who were massed for messing with them tho, so...the moral of the story is...dont go stepping in crap and then moaning your shoes stink!

btw, Brdavs, you say the (pukes for the umpteenth time) tribute is taken as deposit, well can i have my 300 odd bill i gave to Blahh when you guys massed AK?

if the answer is yes would you mind setting a broker please?

What I see here is TJP becoming what they always fought against, even back in the time taht you mentioned Omega never asked for a tribute in the billions, only 1 Naq or 1 uu and a promise not to attack or provoke them while still at war.

It is say to see that many that I called friends acting like what I and many others fought against in the prior 2 server wars.

I never thought I would say this, FUALL keep fighting do not let your enemies win or breathe.

[| Nemesis |]

i NEVER met anyone who said they were massed for no reason by either omega or any of their allies

In response to this several of the "educators" were Omega and allies

As for the tribute thingy, i believe its a very fine line but i`ve seen TLE abuse this a few times

I think most of you can agree and i cant wait for a member of TLE to reply to this but some of TLE members behaviour towards AEU was terrible and wars broke out and for TLE to charge players to leave the war thay they effectivly started is wrong, I`m not sure who attacked who first but my guess is TL didnt help the situation

My point is if you start it you shouldnt be charging them the amounts TLE charge to leave because that is exstortion simple as. If there mouthy or they started it then its fair game.

I`m not partically fond of FUALL as to many of its member abuse the tag but there surrender terms are considerably better. Why are they better? Simple the 1 naq tribute is a signiture of surrendering and having to leave the alliance is something a player should do on his own if hes just bailed out on his alliance mates. Brdavs said being forced to leave ur friends is unacceptable, well i ask you this... Were they really that good of friends if you bailed out on them and before anyone says "what about rl issues" theres always ppts 4 days a week and accept being farmed alot 3 days a week, if u dont wana be farmed there is always vac mode or better yet tell your alliance mates to farm you

[[KMA]Avenger]

i NEVER met anyone who said they were massed for no reason by either omega or any of their allies

In response to this several of the "educators" were Omega and allies

i was referring to the days when the GA and omega ruled supreme but hey, my bad for not being clear on that point.

[pianomutt20000]

George aka Avenger.


I voted against it in your poll. I am not for it in anyway, either the way FUALL is going it or my current alliance. I just don't think that it is necessary to goto this step.





Extortion is Extortion. There is no "kinder and gentler" extortion. (IE, just leave your alliance forever....

What if someone just needs to go for RL reasons, and does want to return....But can't be in the war.


No, it's threatening and it's wrong.

Bill

[Brdavs]

As for the tribute thingy, i believe its a very fine line but i`ve seen TLE abuse this a few times

I think most of you can agree and i cant wait for a member of TLE to reply to this but some of TLE members behaviour towards AEU was terrible and wars broke out and for TLE to charge players to leave the war thay they effectivly started is wrong, I`m not sure who attacked who first but my guess is TL didnt help the situation

My point is if you start it you shouldnt be charging them the amounts TLE charge to leave because that is exstortion simple as. If there mouthy or they started it then its fair game.

I`m not partically fond of FUALL as to many of its member abuse the tag but there surrender terms are considerably better. Why are they better? Simple the 1 naq tribute is a signiture of surrendering and having to leave the alliance is something a player should do on his own if hes just bailed out on his alliance mates. Brdavs said being forced to leave ur friends is unacceptable, well i ask you this... Were they really that good of friends if you bailed out on them and before anyone says "what about rl issues" theres always ppts 4 days a week and accept being farmed alot 3 days a week, if u dont wana be farmed there is always vac mode or better yet tell your alliance mates to farm you

Name one war of offensive campaign TLE started only to make a profit out of it. And dont say Zion lol, cos I think that by the end of it, it was well established wich group conspired to attack wich and wich just got the first punch in. And it is the instigations of people in AUE to mount the front against TLE, and the subsequent shameless playing of victim and BS denial that got those induviduals (most notably tekki) heavily taxed, nothing else.


As far as "forced to ditch friends is better than coughing up some naq" point... if a guy bails out on his alliance and does not care for his supposed friends he should be doubly taxed and 1/2 of the revenue sent to the alliance he ditched. Youre saying its a better deal for an induvidual. Sure it is. If that induvidual happens to be a douchebag that is heh...

[Wolf359]

No - it isn't against the spirit of the game - it's a war game - and usually in war the losing side/those wanting to leave the war end up paying reparations.

Besides, players and alliances have been asking/demanding tributes/reparations since, almost, the day the game began (so it's kind of an old 'spirit' of the game, so I can't see why it is a big issue now.

Just because some people don't agree with it or wouldn't do it themselves, it doesn't mean that it is wrong or against the spirit of the game. There are other things going on in this game that endanger the spirit far more than 'tributes'.

[Curumo]

As was I

Brdavs I talked to high TJP members and they didn't do anything about it, but that's ancient history now.

Many an alliance harbors many a tag hider, this is true for FUALL and TJP and it is indisputable.

Brdavs i don't think there is THAT many players that have had problems with Omega or any former COP alliance as you would like us to believe.

There was bloody sunday, that i do not agree with, yet members of those alliances were not sat on nor forced to pay tributes. Noobhunters were something i never supported and i as far as i know weren't only made of COP members

*edit*: Nobody says you start wars to earn profit from them, all i AM saying, however, is if and when you win you make sure the tributes are high enough to cover a nice amount of the losses that you lost

*edit 2*: Wolf it works against the spirit of the game and players once it crosses a certain line

[cloak]

I view it as war repiration(my 2 pula worth)

[Brdavs]

As was I

Brdavs I talked to high TJP members and they didn't do anything about it, but that's ancient history now.

Many an alliance harbors many a tag hider, this is true for FUALL and TJP and it is indisputable.

Brdavs i don't think there is THAT many players that have had problems with Omega or any former COP alliance as you would like us to believe.

There was bloody sunday, that i do not agree with, yet members of those alliances were not sat on nor forced to pay tributes. Noobhunters were something i never supported and i as far as i know weren't only made of COP members

*edit*: Nobody says you start wars to earn profit from them, all i AM saying, however, is if and when you win you make sure the tributes are high enough to cover a nice amount of the losses that you lost

*edit 2*: Wolf it works against the spirit of the game and players once it crosses a certain line

And you are of the belief that asking some1 to give up lets say 1PPT worth of income/up for a guarantee they wont return and that if they fund they fund us both is crossing some line wheres your request of renouncing your friends forever is not?


And the accusation that this is based on the logic that we cover the majority of our losses is frankly absurd. You`d be lucky if you rebuilt 2 or 3 solid guys in the whole TJP to the prewar level with the ammount we`re expected to "make".

It`s firstly and foremostly about principles. Principles that you dont start what youre not capable or willing to finish, the principle that it is not your call when you`ve had enough & when to leave at yourown terms after you started the fight and finally the principle that deception of the past cannot go uncountered in the present. Simple as.

[Wolf359]

*edit 2*: Wolf it works against the spirit of the game and players once it crosses a certain line

Of course - there are always limits on what is fair - but as I have said over and over again regarding things that people think are unfair in this game - if the amount of people who thought it was unfair actually got together and did something about it, rather than moaning about it - then there wouldn't be a problem. Until someone stands up to them, people are free to push the limits as much as they like - it's a game and it's not real resources! Furthermore, it's a war game - and trust me, war isn't 'nice' - and so equally, tactics in this game do not need to be 'nice'.

Take Omega or the GA/CoP - the amount of people who used to moan and whine about those organisations was immense. It used to make me laugh because if all of those people got together, got off their backsides and acted, rather than moaned, then their perceived 'problem' would have been inconsequential.

Eventually people did join forces - and CoP was 'disbanded' - mission accomplished (kind of).

Seriously - there was never even this much moaning (in general) when whole accounts could be levelled (all troops/mercs and UU) - it seems the easier the game gets, the more people complain about things.

[[KMA]Avenger]

*edit 2*: Wolf it works against the spirit of the game and players once it crosses a certain line

Seriously - there was never even this much moaning (in general) when whole accounts could be levelled (all troops/mercs and UU) - it seems the easier the game gets, the more people complain about things.

me personally, i would LOVE to see a return to the days when we could level an entire account. (@everyone) so please dont think i am moaning and want to see things get even more easier than they already are...

this topic is simply to gauge peoples feelings on the matter, nothing more and nothing less.

on a side note, when AK was massed by Omega it was in direct response to a threat posed by TLC (even tho all of AK was unaware with the exception of maybe 1 member) but even tho AK was part of TLC (and TLC disbanded by the time war broke out with omega) we was still attacked and ended the war after 1 week due to a poll run which showed by i think 17 to 15 votes that AK members wanted to end the war, omega never imposed any restrictions or reparations on AK and if i'm not mistaken even went as far to say that omega would mass anyone who would try and take advantage while AK was rebuilding and both sides showed respect after the war was done....

so you see the difference here.

[Curumo]

Brdavs no i am not. I just know of a few cases where the tribute couldn't be collected in 1 ppt and it was collected even by the last people in the war.

Tell me, who would they fund if they were the rest? No i am not talking about myself here

[Wolf359]

@ Avenger - that is fine - Omega were free to do as they pleased - as is everyone else.

Here's a question then - why is it against the 'spirit of the game'? I've seen people say it is - but why is it, given that it's a war game, and war is not a pleasant business, and (real) history is replete with instances of the victors in war forcing the losers to make reparations?