for all those that think i was talking....

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tootles101
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Rev. Auriel Daniels wrote:Genocide is not necessarily a bad thing, if it works to further the human race. :?
Eugenics are not necessarily a bad thing, since it's what nature would do through the entire principle of 'evolution'.
Why would anyone make a fuss over that?

So I am mad. Interesting response, people.. instead of giving it some rational thought, we just insult the person who gives the idea. *sigh* That's poor.



I found your ideas intriguing. Of course the ideas of "making the human race better" always sound good. Too bad practical application requires monstrous tasks...but it's always "for the greater good'. I think the best way to consider these things is in the light of: The person who creates the system is always above the process.

Basically it's good for everyone else as long as they don't make the list of "deficient humans". Who wants to be on the receiving end after all....so we'll just take them...and their friends of course [cause those they associate with MUST be ok]...out of the loop. And of course they showed their enlightenment by supporting the idea so therefore They get, how did you say it...oh yeah "rewarded" with communication.

Soon inalienable human rights are now rewards. Soon you have Pavlov's bell going but with humans and the right to reproduce, think, communicate, and propogate ideas..not to mention live at all. Soon the entire world is run by the people who made the cut by kissing up, looking, thinking, or acting like the leader. The leader who was never subjected to the process. And there is the flaw. The bias of it all.

So the question is...are you willing to be the first one to face the "protocols of science" to determine if you are fit to live? Come back when you are. And then we'll discuss why your protocols are all wrong.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

For the record; if such a programme were to be instated, I would indeed adhere to the authorities who would be responsible for enforcing the selection procedures.
So yes, I am willing to give up my life as it is for the betterment of humanity. If it is deemed appropriate by a supreme authority, I will follow their judgement.

The 'basic inalienable human rights' are by far and large overrated. Rights are privileges, not claimable objects as some seem to suggest.

(Got to go back to my cook, he complains. Would love to talk to you on this matter, SV.)
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Rev. Auriel Daniels wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote::shock: i dont think you quite understand what it is you are saying :shock:

far be it from me to insult anyone but thats just downright madness...your saying your in favor of wiping out whole peoples and that nature would do the same?? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I am in favour of wiping out groups in the human society which would be wiped out by nature if left to that.

Do you think people who limp would survive back in Prehistoric days? When they were throwing a spear at a raging bull, they would miss the target, just because they couldn't stand up straight.
Okay, being able to stand up straight is perhaps a bad example, but certainly you know how much of a strain on society the terminally ill and disabled are? Society bends the basic principles of human development, so that they can live and sometimes even procreate. That's unnatural, and if unstopped will ultimately cause the breakdown of society as a whole. Nature would have filtered these errors out of the species a long time ago had we let it.

I'd like to introduce the aspect of "High Society", a perspective most conspirationists (sorry for the somewhat pejorative term, but I have yet to find a better one) are familiar with from a distance.
High Society is human excellence in its prime. High Society suffers as the amount of failures increases.. and ultimately, High Society is the only thing that defines human civilization.
Do you think after aeons have passed, that the "common man" is what defines humanity? We remember Rome by the elite. We will be remembered by our own. High Society will always be the definition of human civilization, despite the best efforts of those who oppose it. It is by the balance of High Society ("Good") versus the barbarisms of the common man ("Evil") that humankind prevails. Disturb that balance (f.x. by exponentially increasing the amount of failures and genetic defects) and eventually you risk the survival of both High Society and the common man. Then you're left with the dead hulk of mankind, crawling back into the caves of their minds.

But by all means.. kill the one who tells you that bright light you see is actually only a reflection of the world being on fire. Go ahead, be hostile.


edit: I'd love to stay and chat, but I have a dinner to attend. :) Will reply when I get back. ;)


1stly, why would i be hostile? :?

2nd, that post is wrong on so many levels i don't know where to start...seriously, i don't know! :? :?



Rev. Auriel Daniels wrote:For the record; if such a programme were to be instated, I would indeed adhere to the authorities who would be responsible for enforcing the selection procedures.
So yes, I am willing to give up my life as it is for the betterment of humanity. If it is deemed appropriate by a supreme authority, I will follow their judgement.

The 'basic inalienable human rights' are by far and large overrated. Rights are privileges, not claimable objects as some seem to suggest.

(Got to go back to my cook, he complains. Would love to talk to you on this matter, SV.)


what supreme authority are you referring to, george bush, gordon brown, the queen of england, the pope and the vatican?

all of the above are miserable failure's and couldnt organize a pi$$ up in a brewery, so you go right ahead and listen to "them"
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

That couldn't be anyone else than me (supreme authority)! Toon_PDT_18

j/k :lol:


I'm in favour of China's moderating borns myself...but for the WHOLE WORLD!!! Toon_PDT_21
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

*spanks jim*

no spam here my friend 8)
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

[KMA]Avenger wrote:*spanks jim*

no spam here my friend 8)

Edited my post to make a proper statement in it.
And Auriel you are scaring people with that (and making me shudder) :lol:

I always have solutions for everything, so yes, I'd qualify for it. Toon_PDT_18

Them being a good compromise between sanity and efficacity Toon_PDT_19

Hence my support to China's born system! (only thing they got right imo :lol: )
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Legendary Apophis wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:*spanks jim*

no spam here my friend 8)

Edited my post to make a proper statement in it.
And Auriel you are scaring people with that (and making me shudder) :lol:

I always have solutions for everything, so yes, I'd qualify for it. Toon_PDT_18

Them being a good compromise between sanity and efficacity Toon_PDT_19

Hence my support to China's born system! (only thing they got right imo :lol: )


You do realize that the Country has one of the highest death rates of baby girls in the world for the very reason that the families are forced to choose only one child?

From a strictly evolutionary standpoint that is just dumb.
From a woman's viewpoint...that is terrifying. Put men in charge of a system and enforce one child and watch women just go down the drain. Yeah..sorry not thrilled with the idea.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

agreed^

no one has the right to put a value on life and government rearing its ugly head in home life is plain stupid, especially when it comes to having kids.

giving life has to be the single most creative thing a couple can do and NO ONE has a right to interfere with that, NO ONE!
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Rev. Auriel Daniels wrote:For the record; if such a programme were to be instated, I would indeed adhere to the authorities who would be responsible for enforcing the selection procedures.
So yes, I am willing to give up my life as it is for the betterment of humanity. If it is deemed appropriate by a supreme authority, I will follow their judgement.

The 'basic inalienable human rights' are by far and large overrated. Rights are privileges, not claimable objects as some seem to suggest.

(Got to go back to my cook, he complains. Would love to talk to you on this matter, SV.)


It occurs to me that Evolution is by definition as much happenstance as "Nature" deciding. So if you install a system that is supposed to "help nature" along, are you not instead suffocating Nature's processes? You cannot install a system in a Chaotic evolution and expect the same outcome. But that would be what you intend.

As to the overrated rights of man, might I suggest that those with the power have a responsibility to the weak and the down trodden. And it because of these libeled "large(ly) [sic] overrated" rights that such a statement is taken for granted. You say that the world is falling apart. By whose standard? Without these "rights" as the standard for what is fair and just you have nothing more than the powerful taking command over the weak. So technically your whole thesis for instating this new order is in error.

You cannot on one hand use the injustices of the world as the reason for this idea and on the other hand exclude those injustices completely. It is just illogical. But good show.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

tootles101 wrote:
Legendary Apophis wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:*spanks jim*

no spam here my friend 8)

Edited my post to make a proper statement in it.
And Auriel you are scaring people with that (and making me shudder) :lol:

I always have solutions for everything, so yes, I'd qualify for it. Toon_PDT_18

Them being a good compromise between sanity and efficacity Toon_PDT_19

Hence my support to China's born system! (only thing they got right imo :lol: )


You do realize that the Country has one of the highest death rates of baby girls in the world for the very reason that the families are forced to choose only one child?

From a strictly evolutionary standpoint that is just dumb.
From a woman's viewpoint...that is terrifying. Put men in charge of a system and enforce one child and watch women just go down the drain. Yeah..sorry not thrilled with the idea.

If I support it it's because the human pop will pass 10bil by 2025 or so. Just think of how will we be able to feed, give jobs, houses etc to that whole pop while now we even not able to do so now?

About the girls death rate, that's indeed a big problem...don't have solution for that atm.

Hmmm perhaps instead of quantity, make quality, since less will be born, the little funds would work better (from help organizations) to help populations in difficulty like sub saharian, central asia, bengladesh, etc...It will help solving the mortal rate. Especially in Africa, I think.
Will say other positive things it brings, can't atm, busy with a war on sgaw :D
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<Dmonix> Damnit Jim how come every conversation with you always ends up discussing something deep and meaningful?
<Dmonix> We always end up discussing male/female differences or politics or football
<Dmonix> All the really important issues in life
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Most of the talking going on about earth's population is based off of now debunked theories from a book called the Population Bomb by Ehrlich.

Critics have compared Ehrlich to Thomas Malthus for his multiple predictions of famine and economic catastrophe. The leading critic of Ehrlich was Julian Lincoln Simon, a libertarian theorist and the author of the book The Ultimate Resource, a book which argues a larger population is a benefit, not a cost. To test their two contrasting views on resources, in 1980, Ehrlich and Simon entered into a wager over how the price of metals would move during the 1980s. Ehrlich predicted that the price would increase as metals became more scarce in the Earth's crust, while Simon insisted the price of metals had fallen throughout human history and would continue to do so. Ehrlich lost the bet. Indeed such was the decline in the price of the five metals Ehrlich selected, Simon would have won even without taking inflation into account.

In Ehrlich's books, many predictions are made, for example, The Population Bomb begins "[t]he battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s the world will undergo famines -- hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death," while in "The End of Affluence", Ehrlich stated, "One general prediction can be made with confidence: the cost of feeding yourself and your family will continue to increase. There may be minor fluctuations in food prices, but the overall trend will be up". According to Ehrlich, the United States would see its life expectancy drop to 42 years by 1980 because of pesticide usage, and the nation's population would drop to 22.6 million by 1999 [1]. Criticizing Ehrlich on similar grounds as Simon was Ronald Bailey, a leader in the wise use movement, who wrote a book in 1993 entitled Eco-Scam where he blasted the views of Ehrlich, Lester Brown, Carl Sagan and other environmental theorists. While of the repeated theorizing Simon complained "As soon as one predicted disaster doesn't occur, the doomsayers skip to another... why don't the [they] see that, in the aggregate, things are getting better? Why do they always think we're at a turning point -- or at the end of the road?"

In his book Betrayal of Science and Reason, Ehrlich discussed these earlier predictions of his and re-affirmed his stances on population and resource issues.

Ehrlich also has critics on the political left. These include Betsy Hartmann, author of the 1987 book Reproductive Rights and Wrongs: The Global Politics of Population Control & Contraceptive Choice. Hartmann accuses Ehrlich and other environmentalists who focus on population control of misanthropy, and believes that such focus is antithetical to activism on issues of social class and feminism.

There has been much criticism of the book from demographers today (chiefly Phillip Longman in his 2004 The Empty Cradle) who argues that the "baby boom" of the 1950s was an aberration unlikely to be repeated and that population decline in an urbanized society is by nature hard to prevent because of the economic liability children become.

The Skeptical Environmentalist by Bjørn Lomborg disputes many of the claims in the book.

Various Indices of Economic Freedom claim that lack of property rights, not high population density, is the real cause of famine. Thus, countries such as China, India, South Korea, and Botswana were able to eliminate their famines by adopting property rights. Likewise, countries such as Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, and North Korea created famines when they abolished property rights. Ehrlich's book does not explain why South Korea is so much better off than North Korea, but an analysis of property rights explains this difference very well.


Basically, the fact that mankind has learned how to produce enough food to feed everyone has increased due to the panics that the book created. However, while those changes were indeed good the theories themselves were so flawed that the scientific community dropped them long ago. And yet those same theories, now so long debunked, fuel the private philosophic wars of those who have nothing better to do with their lives.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

I agree with Auriel. Look at the whole "health care" thing. They keep the sick alive, they use machines to help people live but if those machines were not there they would die from what they have.

I think what Auriel is suggesting is a super race of humans - strong, healthy, intelligent etc.. (If I'm wrong then tell me Auriel :P )

If everything was taken from us how many do you think will survive? Not even your most experienced hunter, survival expert would survive.
It would all come down to whom is more crazy than the other.

If that happened and you were starving would you not kill to survive or are you so attached to your "emotions" that you couldn't do it?
You would die because you feel so much love for your fellow man and allow them to take food? (I'm not including killing people from your "tribe"/family as it's obvious you wouldn't kill them (maybe) :lol: )
I don't know about myself but I hope I would be able to kill just to live.

Put into a kill or die situation will only prove if you're worthy of living.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Biscuit wrote:I agree with Auriel. Look at the whole "health care" thing. They keep the sick alive, they use machines to help people live but if those machines were not there they would die from what they have.

I think what Auriel is suggesting is a super race of humans - strong, healthy, intelligent etc.. (If I'm wrong then tell me Auriel :P )

If everything was taken from us how many do you think will survive? Not even your most experienced hunter, survival expert would survive.
It would all come down to whom is more crazy than the other.

If that happened and you were starving would you not kill to survive or are you so attached to your "emotions" that you couldn't do it?
You would die because you feel so much love for your fellow man and allow them to take food? (I'm not including killing people from your "tribe"/family as it's obvious you wouldn't kill them (maybe) :lol: )
I don't know about myself but I hope I would be able to kill just to live.

Put into a kill or die situation will only prove if you're worthy of living.


Why? Because you say so?

Kill or be killed is fine for a Schwarzenegger movie but in real life you'll find most people don't prefer it. All you are doing now is painting a glowing picture of a terrifying prospect, namely the loss of humanity's reason.

All that separates us from the animals is reason and compassion. If you take those away, what you have left is not worth saving anyway. There is nothing beautiful about mankind as a whole without reason and compassion. See what happened to Russian society when reason was done away with for the Communist manifesto [only the strong survive] or when Compassion was done away with in the French Civil War [death at the drop of a hat]. History is there, only those naive enough to believe that "this time we can do it right" will repeat it.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Look at war. People sent to war without choice. They're put into a kill or be killed situation. That's not a film and it happened and the only way to survive was to kill.



EDIT - In my last post it might seem like I want the "sick" to die. I don't. I'm just making a point that progression has brought us to a point where we can "cheat death" which is pretty weird and without modern health care the sick would die.
Last edited by Biscuit on Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: for all those that think i was talking....

Biscuit wrote:Look at war. People sent to war without choice. They're put into a kill or be killed situation. That's not a film and it happened and the only way to survive was to kill.



War in all its forms is terrible. But wars are for reasons be they pure or be they low. Survival in a killing zone is as much chance as genetics.

Are you suggesting then that in order to make the world better we should devolve into chaos first? Seems someone has been reading Marx again...sigh.

The only one who wins on the battlefield is the vulture. There is no glory in killing another. And there certainly is no glory in dying.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is talking from a standpoint of ignorance.
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