Terrorists, real or not?

[Don Lewis]

I'm of the firm opinion that terrorist's and terrorism was invented by powerfull people as a method of controling the masses through fear and intimidation to give them the power to do whatever they please which i think is disgusting.

I do not believe that there's a bunch of crazy camel jockeys in a cave somewhere plotting against the west.

Why?

1: Hypothetically speaking, if i was a terrorist i would have done much much much more damage then everything ive seen on the news. It really wouldn't be difficult to walk into london with a nuke in a briefcase and kill millions of people. An obvious plan which i think a real terrorist would have thought of and carried out by now.

2: The effect terrorism has on a large population. The more terrorist activity the more power the governments accumulate. The opposite effect any terrorist would hope to achieve which again leads me to believe its the governments themselves that carry out the attacks.

3: Evidence provided by independant investigations into the large terrorist attacks such as 9/11 and the london bombings raise a large number of questions as to the cause of these attacks.

4: This is my main reason for questioning what has happened. After none of the terrorist attacks has a sufficient investigation report been published to prove what and how these such attacks happened. It is as if the governments either do not care or do not want anyone finding out what really happened.

So if anyone is up for a debate please give a decent argument against what i believe, i'd like to see what one or two others think about all this

Don.

[Empy]

I dunno if I am gonna really debate you, but I do got a few questions...

WHAT could the government posssssssibly gain from faking Terrorism and carrying out these attacks themselves. Maybe you answered that and I didn't get it.

[Don Lewis]

I'm not entirley sure, but one example that sticks in my mind is how very frequently american and british politicians use the threat of terrorism to validate decisions they make such as their endevours in afghanistan and iraq.

More important than that, how many new 'anti-terror' laws have been introduced recently? These laws strip our privacy and freedom to the extent that our governments know exactly what we're up to all the time which isnt necessarily a bad thing but it does go against human rights imo and gives those who rule a massive amount of power to those who follow.

Hope that begins to answer your question as to what governments gain from the threat of terrorism.

Don.

[Empy]

It does indeed begin to answer my question.

I got nothing else really to say... lol. Besides that I strongly disagree with you

[Don Lewis]

Dang, my first thread in the debate section i was hoping for a raving debate with maybe some white supremist/devout chirstian lol

[Empy]

LOL!

[Thriller]

Actually there's lots of evidence about the circumstances of how the attacks took place, where they got their funding. And a historical timeline of a series of stupid moves made by the administration of the united states and great Britain who were to proud and pigheaded to listen to advisers, which could have prevented the terrorist actions.... If your going to listen to the conspiracy blowhards then you should check their facts for yourself because their mostly crap and full of holes and flawed reasoning and show a lack of understanding of context. Look at both sides of story for yourself not just what the media and indy-media are telling you then make up your mind.

[Don Lewis]

Actually there's lots of evidence about the circumstances of how the attacks took place, where they got their funding. And a historical timeline of a series of stupid moves made by the administration of the united states and great Britain who were to proud and pigheaded to listen to advisers, which could have prevented the terrorist actions.... If your going to listen to the conspiracy blowhards then you should check their facts for yourself because their mostly crap and full of holes and flawed reasoning and show a lack of understanding of context. Look at both sides of story for yourself not just what the media and indy-media are telling you then make up your mind.

Ive watched and read many conspiracy theories and i dont take my opinions from them completely, i include them into my own opinion and come to my own conclusion. My opinions come from cause and effect, where i see an effect such as all the new anti-terror laws then there must be a cause (terrorism) but there must also be someone who benefits from the effect and in my eyes those that benefit more than anyone are the governments and rulers.

So it isnt so much the evidence that has and has not been provided, its more the effects and the beneficiaries of the effects that change my opinion the most.

So im not effected by one side of the 'story' and i do form my own opinions,

Don.

[Empy]

Actually there's lots of evidence about the circumstances of how the attacks took place, where they got their funding. And a historical timeline of a series of stupid moves made by the administration of the united states and great Britain who were to proud and pigheaded to listen to advisers, which could have prevented the terrorist actions.... If your going to listen to the conspiracy blowhards then you should check their facts for yourself because their mostly crap and full of holes and flawed reasoning and show a lack of understanding of context. Look at both sides of story for yourself not just what the media and indy-media are telling you then make up your mind.

Ive watched and read many conspiracy theories and i dont take my opinions from them completely, i include them into my own opinion and come to my own conclusion. My opinions come from cause and effect, where i see an effect such as all the new anti-terror laws then there must be a cause (terrorism) but there must also be someone who benefits from the effect and in my eyes those that benefit more than anyone are the governments and rulers.

So it isnt so much the evidence that has and has not been provided, its more the effects and the beneficiaries of the effects that change my opinion the most.

So im not effected by one side of the 'story' and i do form my own opinions,

Don.

Says who?

[Don Lewis]

Someone will always find a way to abuse the most disgusting of actions and events known to man, there is no reason why terrorism is any different to this.

The main question in my mind concerning those that benefit from any such action is, did they benefit after it took place or did they orchestrate the cause of what took place?

In the case of terrorism i dont think it really matters. Imo modern day terrorism is orchestrated and not simply used once its taken place.

Don.

[Eternity]

Don Lewis, if you feel you're up for a mature discussion that might challenge some of your sets of beliefs (as you have been doing so far here), feel free to contact me.

I am in the employ of the US Government, which is about the extent of what I can tell you in relation to that.
Please, I would appreciate a chance to discuss your questions with you in a private atmosphere.
Cheers
L.

[Empy]

Don Lewis, if you feel you're up for a mature discussion that might challenge some of your sets of beliefs (as you have been doing so far here), feel free to contact me.

I am in the employ of the US Government, which is about the extent of what I can tell you in relation to that.
Please, I would appreciate a chance to discuss your questions with you in a private atmosphere.
Cheers
L.

Awwww, then I won't get to see the debate

[Don Lewis]

@Eternity, i'd like to chat with you on msn or something but its not in your profile, please add me or pm me your msn so i can add you and i'l catch you there

Also, even though i think many governments do many things for the wrong reasons i still believe that all civil servants and military personell do a very good job even if it is for the wrong reasons some of the time; so dont be insulted by my opinions as i have a very high opinion of those that serve their country in any way, shape or form.

Don.

P.s. Im going to bed, its getting kinda late now so i hope to wake up to a few decent replies tommorow

P.p.s I just turned the channel on TV to find a show on about how gordon brown is using modern problems with pollution and the environment to help build a bigger section on heathrow airport resulting in 200,000+ more flights every year. How does that help the environment??? Yet another example how the rulers twist modern issues to help themselves

[Demeisen]

your point is a joke. you think the uk government allows terrorists to kill our citizens. fool. terrorism is real. its been around since mankind became 'civilized' in one form or another.

no its not easy to walk into london with a 'nuke.' very few briefcase size nukes exist and you cant buy them on ebay. they are not used by any military i know of. they are not realistically available to terrorists.

im from the uk and ive had to deal with terrorists all my life. if you want i can arrange pictures of bomb damage near my home. that you believe terrorist attacks are created by those in power is a joke. its shameful. people have died and you come up with some stupid conspiracy theory. you are a disgrace.

you say terrorism is used as a government tool? what did the uk government gain from the tube bombings? nothing. they were seen in a bad light for letting it happen. what does the uk gain from afganistan? nothing. i know soldiers who have fought there and many others have died there. theres no benefit to the uk from troops being there other than for our own security.

so new laws take away some rights from the public. im innocent so i dont care if im spied upon to a minor extent if it helps prevent further attacks.

your argument is a joke. i'll not debate anymore with a clown like you.

[David Bliss]

Somewhat, I believe your right but on the other hand your defiantly wrong. I believe other governments hire out acts of terrorism. And that they use fear to make themselves more powerful and rich. But the same country wanting terrorism on itself...doubt it.