Income

[Cole]

If game is too slow with everything killable and hard recovers...I don't think it will be much fun. Remember. Attack and covert were not killable, then miners came around as well as supers then AC came in. There has NEVER been "everything" killable stuff. Raiding wasn't here on beginning.
I did login again on sgw.de
That is old school sgw and it's like:
-Supers
-Covert invincible
-No miners or lifers (low income)
-Bank
-No planets
-No nox

[Lore]

The problem I see with this idea is this.

1 guy builds a 100% Strike account.

A. he gives his enemies 0 funds to take from him, 0 units to kill
b. he massses at will, with a pure strike he farms massive income

[adminGary]

Could you elaborate a little on which idea Lore? (there are a few bouncing around here currently).

[semper]

The problem I see with this idea is this.

1 guy builds a 100% Strike account.

A. he gives his enemies 0 funds to take from him, 0 units to kill
b. he massses at will, with a pure strike he farms massive income

Thats why you make it so strike units defend at a limited capability if you have no defence.

[Lore]

Could you elaborate a little on which idea Lore? (there are a few bouncing around here currently).

We are currently balancing income.
Untrained, offence and defence all generate naq.
Offence and defence will generate more naq per turn than an untrained unit.
If you attack, the naq generated by your offence will be reduced, the more you attack the less naq you get.
If your attacked, the naq generated by your defence will be reduced, the more you're attacked the less naq you get.

All racial bonuses to offence, defence, covert, and naq generation will still be in affect.

At this stage untrained isn't attackable, I'm currently thinking things over about account destruction.

Offence is killable, they die when you attack someone.

My point addresses these statements

A 100% strike account can not be hurt externally at all. Yet can lay inactive for weeks/months. Do a 1 day farming spree jumping stats massively, and raking in income at will, simply increasing his strike power with every farming hit till he can take the whole of page 1.

No account can hurt/slow/stop/detour him as you cant hurt his account and since he is a 1 hit wonder/1 trick pony he needs no other stats.

[adminGary]

There are several changes taking place the game that require you to keep defensive units.

Spies and spykillers have been redesigned.
Spies can sabotage your target's weapons.
Spykillers are their to defend your weapon cashe against spies.

Plus without defence any naq that they don't have banked away can also be stolen.

If needed new functionality can be added to balance the game. For example, we could allow spies to attack someone's offensive team.

[S1eepy]

The problem I see with this idea is this.

1 guy builds a 100% Strike account.

A. he gives his enemies 0 funds to take from him, 0 units to kill
b. he massses at will, with a pure strike he farms massive income

Limited ATs would prevent this.. or at least stop it from being the main tactic...

[semper]

Could you elaborate a little on which idea Lore? (there are a few bouncing around here currently).

We are currently balancing income.
Untrained, offence and defence all generate naq.
Offence and defence will generate more naq per turn than an untrained unit.
If you attack, the naq generated by your offence will be reduced, the more you attack the less naq you get.
If your attacked, the naq generated by your defence will be reduced, the more you're attacked the less naq you get.

All racial bonuses to offence, defence, covert, and naq generation will still be in affect.

At this stage untrained isn't attackable, I'm currently thinking things over about account destruction.

Offence is killable, they die when you attack someone.

My point addresses these statements

A 100% strike account can not be hurt externally at all. Yet can lay inactive for weeks/months. Do a 1 day farming spree jumping stats massively, and raking in income at will, simply increasing his strike power with every farming hit till he can take the whole of page 1.

No account can hurt/slow/stop/detour him as you cant hurt his account and since he is a 1 hit wonder/1 trick pony he needs no other stats.

Thats why we need everything to be killable, uu and all, and if people have no defence their strike units act as defenders!

That way when Mr Strike happy goes out, does hit move and then comes back... he cannot escape retribution as people will simply eradicate his uu, strikers and weapons, leaving him with nothing but a handful of units he can only annoy the lower echelons with. making sure, the big defences and the big ranks are not plagued by snipers.

[Lore]

There are several changes taking place the game that require you to keep defensive units.

Spies and spykillers have been redesigned.
Spies can sabotage your target's weapons.
Spykillers are their to defend your weapon cashe against spies.

Plus without defence any naq that they don't have banked away can also be stolen.

If needed new functionality can be added to balance the game. For example, we could allow spies to attack someone's offensive team.

Not trying to be a pain, Honest. You dont seem to know or understand that this very tactic is being used successfully in SGW now, and it will be used in origins. I promise you because I will be one of them using it. I can provide you with an amazingly fine example of a medioker account that in a reletively short ammount of time took rank 1 from using this tactic alone.

Adding the covert to attack Strike is an option.

Now your above remark make no sense in this discussion

Spies and spykillers have been redesigned.
Spies can sabotage your target's weapons.
Spykillers are their to defend your weapon cashe against spies.

This does not address the 100% stike issue at all. If income comes from strike, and there is a bank, then all he needs is enough cash to buy 1 weapon. Then he hits a 0 Def inactive. 5 minutes later hes farming entire alliances.

Plus without defence any naq that they don't have banked away can also be stolen.

You again fail to understand, when you can farm 100Times your income, why would you even care about who takes your income? Anyone who takes his income gets massed or his alliance massed or his friends massed.

The problem I see with this idea is this.

1 guy builds a 100% Strike account.

A. he gives his enemies 0 funds to take from him, 0 units to kill
b. he massses at will, with a pure strike he farms massive income

Limited ATs would prevent this.. or at least stop it from being the main tactic...

I truely hope your right, and the new AT tactic AG is discussing is intresting. Until decided I just want AG to understand the potential is there for this tactic.

[adminGary]

I understand how it leaves a hole in the game, I've been bouncing some ideas around in my head. I've just got to figure a plan out before I can proceed on this front. Any ideas on how to balance this issue are welcome at this time.

[Lore]

I understand how it leaves a hole in the game, I've been bouncing some ideas around in my head. I've just got to figure a plan out before I can proceed on this front. Any ideas on how to balance this issue are welcome at this time.

There is no silver bullet mate, if there were we would have found it by now.

Basicly you have to make an ultimate choice and divide the stance of the game into 1 of 2 choices

1, Make the game where everything is killable, accounts can be broken, and wars won through action

2, Make the game where accounts are protected, accounts can not be broken, and wars only end when someone gets to tired or bored to carry on.


Once you make that decision then you can buiuld the structure of the game from that. Until you decide that evey thing you discuss can be picked apart.


Totally killable accounts can have some safe guards put in. This is a none resettable game. If it also doesnt offer the "resetting" that ascention offers. That means stats such as UP will never lower. You could use this as the means of your "Safe Zone" when it comes to account destruction. meaning it can be pummeled down to a certain sized, that size increasable by increasing your UP. Of course all trained military units are killable no matter what.

There are droves of great suggestions in the suggestion section for main, you just need to pick the direction of the game and ill get you as many good suggestion that follow the path you choose.

[Borek]

I understand how it leaves a hole in the game, I've been bouncing some ideas around in my head. I've just got to figure a plan out before I can proceed on this front. Any ideas on how to balance this issue are welcome at this time.

Honestly it works very well in the german sgw. there is an attack option that targets enemy attack, doesn't do any damage to their defense, but has to beat the defense, if it does attack supers/mercs etc get killed. what this means is you cannot sit around with a puny/zero defense and a load of strike troops that you can farm and arm up as you do, until you have a immense strike.

[Manetheren]

I thought we were starting with the base game as it was in the summer of 05 and adding some of the updates since then. We did have a bank before miners came along. Why wouldnt we have income and bank size based on uu.. uu used to make 20-30 naq each per turn before miners were introduced. Even if they are killable, I assumed it would be a % of the total that were killed so there would be a point when it would no longer be advantageous to attack someone, ie the turns are worth more than the uu killed.

Can we start with the base game in beta then work on redesigning it?

[adminGary]

We started with origins being like SGW was when it first launched. I then spent two weeks working on the code to get it up to date. Ideas that were brought to my attention at the time were also coded into the game.

[Thade]

One way I see to take care of folks building a pure strike account is what Semper said (or quoted?) about making strikes defend an account if a person has a 0 def.

I honestly don't understand why the two are divided in the first place. Why are there not just "Military Units" that do both the attacking and defending?