Christianity Debate (spliced from Scientology debate)

[Gigs]

The Bible was written over a period of 600 years if memory serves by different monks, priest's and holy men. It has been translated and transcribed so many times...with different interpretations. It is easily altered even slightly on any of these occasions.

Well look at many diffrent books in the bible such as the book of Esther which has been proven to be real... If those books are proven real then why should we doubt and other part of the bible? Also the probabibilty of a jewish girl or meant nothing becoming queen and saving the jews is almost zero to none at the time...
ex

Esther
The story of Purim is told in the Book of Esther. Esther is a Jewish girl who becomes Queen to King Xerxes of Persia, and through her bravery, is able to thwart an attempt to slaughter all the Jews living in Persia at that time.

Purim commemorates Esther's courage in saving the Jewish people living in Persia 2000 years ago from extermination.

Heroes and villains
The heroes are Esther and her cousin Mordecai. Esther had no mother or father, and Mordecai had brought her up as if she was his daughter.

The villain of the story is Haman, the favourite nobleman of Xerxes, King of Persia.

King Xerxes can also be seen as a villain because of the way he treats women and because of his willingness to have all the Jews killed for no good reason.

Esther becomes queen
Xerxes' wife, Queen Vashti had been banished, because she wouldn't display herself to the diners at an all male banquet he was giving.

King Xerxes summoned beautiful virgins from all over the land in order to find a new queen, and after seeing many women, he chose Esther.

The King chose her without knowing that Esther was a Jew because Mordecai had told her not to tell him.

Haman defames the Jews
Haman was furious with Mordecai, because Mordecai refused to bow down before him to show his respect.

In order to punish Mordecai, Haman decided to exterminate the whole Jewish people. So Haman went to the King and told him that he ought to get rid of the Jews.

There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your realm. Their laws are different from those of every other people's, and they do not observe the King's laws; therefore it is not befitting for the King to tolerate them.
Esther 3:8
Haman told the King that he would pay for the extermination.

Genocide
The King gave Haman his signet ring (so that Haman could give orders in the King's name) and told him to get on with it.

Dispatches were sent by couriers to all the king's provinces with the order to destroy, kill and annihilate all the Jews-young and old, women and little children-on a single day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month of Adar, and to plunder their goods.
Esther 3:13
Esther takes a risk
Mordecai persuaded Esther to beg the King for mercy for the Jews. In fact, Mordecai didn't actually persuade Esther - he tried to frighten her into doing it:

Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish.
Esther 4:13-14
And he pointed out that the reason she had become Queen was so that she could rescue the Jews.

Going to see the King was risky for Esther, because if you approached the King without being invited you could be executed. And the King hadn't sent for Esther for a month.

Esther fasted for three days to prepare herself, as did all the Jews in her town, and then went to see the King.

Fortunately he was pleased to see her, and she wasn't executed. He welcomed her, and she, eventually, told him of Haman's plan to exterminate the Jews.

She begged the King to show mercy to the Jewish people. The appalled King granted it at once and the Jewish people were saved.

The King had a problem, since it was not within his power to rescind the orders that Haman had given in his name. So Xerxes issued another decree, which allowed the Jews to defend themselves against those who tried to kill them. As a result, the Jews killed over 70,000 of their enemies.

The villain Haman was hanged on the gallows that he had built to execute Mordecai, and Mordecai was given Haman's job in his place.


Don't you see? A jewish girl comes from no where becomes queen gets the King to go against his right hand man.. to save her people WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILTIES? I think something had to be working in a greater being... if your gonna say the bible isn't credible then look at this book which is.

[semper]

The Bible was written over a period of 600 years if memory serves by different monks, priest's and holy men. It has been translated and transcribed so many times...with different interpretations. It is easily altered even slightly on any of these occasions.

Well look at many diffrent books in the bible such as the book of Esther which has been proven to be real... If those books are proven real then why should we doubt and other part of the bible? Also the probabibilty of a jewish girl or meant nothing becoming queen and saving the jews is almost zero to none at the time...
ex

Esther
The story of Purim is told in the Book of Esther. Esther is a Jewish girl who becomes Queen to King Xerxes of Persia, and through her bravery, is able to thwart an attempt to slaughter all the Jews living in Persia at that time.

Purim commemorates Esther's courage in saving the Jewish people living in Persia 2000 years ago from extermination.

Heroes and villains
The heroes are Esther and her cousin Mordecai. Esther had no mother or father, and Mordecai had brought her up as if she was his daughter.

The villain of the story is Haman, the favourite nobleman of Xerxes, King of Persia.

King Xerxes can also be seen as a villain because of the way he treats women and because of his willingness to have all the Jews killed for no good reason.

Esther becomes queen
Xerxes' wife, Queen Vashti had been banished, because she wouldn't display herself to the diners at an all male banquet he was giving.

King Xerxes summoned beautiful virgins from all over the land in order to find a new queen, and after seeing many women, he chose Esther.

The King chose her without knowing that Esther was a Jew because Mordecai had told her not to tell him.

Haman defames the Jews
Haman was furious with Mordecai, because Mordecai refused to bow down before him to show his respect.

In order to punish Mordecai, Haman decided to exterminate the whole Jewish people. So Haman went to the King and told him that he ought to get rid of the Jews.

There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your realm. Their laws are different from those of every other people's, and they do not observe the King's laws; therefore it is not befitting for the King to tolerate them.
Esther 3:8
Haman told the King that he would pay for the extermination.

Genocide
The King gave Haman his signet ring (so that Haman could give orders in the King's name) and told him to get on with it.

Dispatches were sent by couriers to all the king's provinces with the order to destroy, kill and annihilate all the Jews-young and old, women and little children-on a single day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month of Adar, and to plunder their goods.
Esther 3:13
Esther takes a risk
Mordecai persuaded Esther to beg the King for mercy for the Jews. In fact, Mordecai didn't actually persuade Esther - he tried to frighten her into doing it:

Do not think that because you are in the king's house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish.
Esther 4:13-14
And he pointed out that the reason she had become Queen was so that she could rescue the Jews.

Going to see the King was risky for Esther, because if you approached the King without being invited you could be executed. And the King hadn't sent for Esther for a month.

Esther fasted for three days to prepare herself, as did all the Jews in her town, and then went to see the King.

Fortunately he was pleased to see her, and she wasn't executed. He welcomed her, and she, eventually, told him of Haman's plan to exterminate the Jews.

She begged the King to show mercy to the Jewish people. The appalled King granted it at once and the Jewish people were saved.

The King had a problem, since it was not within his power to rescind the orders that Haman had given in his name. So Xerxes issued another decree, which allowed the Jews to defend themselves against those who tried to kill them. As a result, the Jews killed over 70,000 of their enemies.

The villain Haman was hanged on the gallows that he had built to execute Mordecai, and Mordecai was given Haman's job in his place.


Don't you see? A jewish girl comes from no where becomes queen gets the King to go against his right hand man.. to save her people WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILTIES? I think something had to be working in a greater being... if your gonna say the bible isn't credible then look at this book which is.

Not at all! That means nothing but the girl was very clever. Please... I have not found a forum of activity in my life that after a year I have not ascended to be one of its highest and most respected members off my own plans.

Its very feasible that she seduced her way into a position of power, and further more just because one part of the bible is recorded history, does not mean...by ANY chance the rest of it is.

If you want to apply your theory on a larger scale, I take the example of Star Wars again...there are human beings in star wars, they breathe air and live in a galaxy on planets not to dissimilar to our own. By your reckoning it is wholly rational to assume that because parts of the Star Wars mythology are true, then it is unreasonable to doubt the validity of the rest?

[RepliMagni]

Watch the first 30 seconds:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5OQElJu ... annel_page

I'm about as atheist as people come, but even that had me thinking

[Gigs]

I have not found a forum of activity in my life that after a year I have not ascended to be one of its highest and most respected members off my own plans.

Very True I respect you very much

Watch the first 30 seconds:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5OQElJu ... annel_page

I'm about as atheist as people come, but even that had me thinking

Great Saying
"You don't fix faith, it fixes you"
Very True

[Brdavs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Naaiiiiiiiled it!

[Gigs]

He's a jerk lol and its not like that at all...
What a retard.
I don't mean that in a bad way.
The thing with christianity is the bible is one thing, and you can say "Okay the bible is junk"
but another thing in my life and why I am a christian is because i have experienced God, and seen the amazing things he's done.
If you want me to prove to you in science that these things happened
I can't, their is no way.
Christianity is all faith and experiencing God in your life and I'm just not saying that... I used to not be a believer you could say I was a full out atheist.
But seeing what God did and trusting him in my life is the greatest step I ever took in my life.
Huge change in my life from before when I wasn't christian.

Your probably going to reply to this saying I'm just a loser that believes in nothing and you need me to prove it to you in science.
Well something we will never understand as a race is why God doesn't make it more obvious so everyone can see his great acts. Its something I don't understand cause I don't get why he wouldn't make it obvious then nobody should go to Hell.
Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone and he wants you to share that love with him and the first step to taken in his love is to have faith.
Christianity is built on FAITH.
Not proving to everyone that GOD is really there because he is,
and he shows up in really weird ways.
Just because he doesn't seem like he's in your life and crappy things are happening
he is and he wants you to share his love with him and it will help those crappy times feel not so crappy in a way
Is my life as a christian great and dandy... Noooooo I have bad times... God helps me through those bad times by making something good happen out of them.
Like I said God works and shows up in weird ways.
Just have faith... Its hard to be a christian in our culture today and the world is pointing at an idea of helping your self
and WORRY about your self all the time.
I put others first and if the world would do that too, imagine it.
Not that this is a moral lesson.

HAVE FAITH

-Gigs

[Demeisen]

By your reckoning it is wholly rational to assume that because parts of the Star Wars mythology are true, then it is unreasonable to doubt the validity of the rest?

King Xerxes can also be seen as a villain because of the way he treats women and because of his willingness to have all the Jews killed for no good reason.

i find it interesting how God can kill whoever he chooses, and treat women poorly, and not be a villain

christianity is one of the most repressive organisations ever to exist.

The thing with christianity is the bible is one thing, and you can say "Okay the bible is junk"
which would be true. its full of lies and has a shocking/terrible moral message. i suppose you could learn its bad to do some of the evil deeds God (and his minions) carried out in the bible. thats about its only redeeming feature in my view. having studied the bible there are two simple options: God is evil or the bible is wrong. i know which id rather believe
but another thing in my life and why I am a christian is because i have experienced God, and seen the amazing things he's done.
i take it you mean that in a general 'God works in mysterious ways' manner rather than actually seeing flaming shrubs and other obvious events?
If you want me to prove to you in science that these things happened
I can't, their is no way.
faith cannot be proven or dismissed by science . it can be altered and changed by knowledge (which the fanatical will resist regardless of any proofs). if something miraculous happens its a quick step for some to attribute it to God. if something is completely unexplainable by science then ill be more open to believe theres a higher power at work.
i think its dangerous when religious people believe something is a miracle even when science has an answer. believing an event is the doing of a supreme being instead of seeing simple truth isnt a healthy thing to do, if you think about it.
Christianity is all faith and experiencing God in your life and I'm just not saying that... I used to not be a believer you could say I was a full out atheist.
But seeing what God did and trusting him in my life is the greatest step I ever took in my life.
Huge change in my life from before when I wasn't christian.

thats good for you mate. theres nothing wrong with faith that enriches someones life. its when faiths hinder, hide, command, repress and destroy that i object to them. the belief in God has caused so much death and suffering for humanity. it will continue as long as people are blindly enslaved to religion .
i think there can be an important (at least to me ) difference between faith and religion. faith speaks more of a free and healthy belief. where as religion implies organisation and set rules to be followed or else.
faith in religion is like abandoning personal views and doing whatever the crowd is doing. pray together. believe together. kill together. peoples faith in organised religion can lead to terrible things.

Your probably going to reply to this saying I'm just a loser that believes in nothing and you need me to prove it to you in science.
Well something we will never understand as a race is why God doesn't make it more obvious so everyone can see his great acts. Its something I don't understand cause I don't get why he wouldn't make it obvious then nobody should go to Hell.
probably because his acts didnt happen. God may exist. ill always concede that possibility. science cant prove there is no God, and will probably never be able to. equally, miracles will probably never prove Gods existence (short of the Big Man himself paying us a visit, hopefully having calmed down on the genocide etc he was so fond of in the biblical days).
another simple choice is raised by religion. is it more likely that God hides his work, or that there is no work to see.
it is natural for humans to pick the obvious and straight forward answers. wherever religion appears it taints and disrupts this ability.
Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you and he wants you to share that love with him and the first step to taken in his love is to have faith.
Christianity is built on FAITH. or control, lies, repression and blindly following a nonsense book?
Not proving to everyone that GOD is really there because he is,
and he shows up in really weird ways.
Just because he doesn't seem like he's in your life and crappy things are happening
he is and he wants you to share his love with him and it will help those crappy times feel not so crappy in a way thats true. one of the good things faith gives. a sense that we are not alone helps in trying times
Is my life as a christian great and dandy... Noooooo I have bad times... God helps me through those bad times by making something good happen out of them.
Like I said God works and shows up in weird ways.
Just have faith... Its hard to be a christian in our culture today and the world is pointing at an idea of helping your self
and WORRY about your self all the time.
I put others first and if the world would do that too, imagine it.
Not that this is a moral lesson.

HAVE FAITH

both christians and atheists think of helping others. the atheist would (apparently) go to hell even if he/she had devoted themselves to helping people. hardly seems fair a good person goes to hell does it? christianity never seems fair to me.

christianity can teach no real moral lessons an atheist cannot learn alone. and said atheist would avoid wars, lies, commandments and the other shackles that come with religion.

[Gigs]

OFF TOPIC but watch this its kinda cool

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?s ... AR&u=xd0_s

[Mister Sandman]

By your reckoning it is wholly rational to assume that because parts of the Star Wars mythology are true, then it is unreasonable to doubt the validity of the rest?

King Xerxes can also be seen as a villain because of the way he treats women and because of his willingness to have all the Jews killed for no good reason.

i find it interesting how God can kill whoever he chooses, and treat women poorly, and not be a villain

christianity is one of the most repressive organisations ever to exist.

Because blood shed, if it is just, is acceptable.

I dont believe, or see Christianity as repressive. It is ignorant to say that. When does Christianity "call" for oppression.

The thing with christianity is the bible is one thing, and you can say "Okay the bible is junk"
which would be true. its full of lies and has a shocking/terrible moral message. i suppose you could learn its bad to do some of the evil deeds God (and his minions) carried out in the bible. thats about its only redeeming feature in my view. having studied the bible there are two simple options: God is evil or the bible is wrong. i know which id rather believe

Funny thing, it still has to be disproved. Because as it has been established that the Bible is the only truth. You cant simplicity limit yourself to close minded incorrect views and assumptions. Having studying the bible myself, I find there is no evil deeds done by the divinity. You cannot just believe your obvious flaws in logic.



but another thing in my life and why I am a christian is because i have experienced God, and seen the amazing things he's done.
i take it you mean that in a general 'God works in mysterious ways' manner rather than actually seeing flaming shrubs and other obvious events?

I suggest you go to Africa or some place that highly believes in a spiritual realm:- Not everything is explained by mere science, and "chances"

If you want me to prove to you in science that these things happened
I can't, their is no way.
faith cannot be proven or dismissed by science . it can be altered and changed by knowledge (which the fanatical will resist regardless of any proofs). if something miraculous happens its a quick step for some to attribute it to God. if something is completely unexplainable by science then ill be more open to believe theres a higher power at work.
i think its dangerous when religious people believe something is a miracle even when science has an answer. believing an event is the doing of a supreme being instead of seeing simple truth isnt a healthy thing to do, if you think about it.

May I point out, in science, or in religion, there is always an element of faith.



Christianity is all faith and experiencing God in your life and I'm just not saying that... I used to not be a believer you could say I was a full out atheist.
But seeing what God did and trusting him in my life is the greatest step I ever took in my life.
Huge change in my life from before when I wasn't christian.

thats good for you mate. theres nothing wrong with faith that enriches someones life. its when faiths hinder, hide, command, repress and destroy that i object to them. the belief in God has caused so much death and suffering for humanity. it will continue as long as people are blindly enslaved to religion .
i think there can be an important (at least to me ) difference between faith and religion. faith speaks more of a free and healthy belief. where as religion implies organisation and set rules to be followed or else.
faith in religion is like abandoning personal views and doing whatever the crowd is doing. pray together. believe together. kill together. peoples faith in organised religion can lead to terrible things.

Christianity is more of a way of life, than a religion. I agree that people who blindly follow things are stupid and constantly test them. (Thus, lots of Christians dont like talking to me about religion)


Your probably going to reply to this saying I'm just a loser that believes in nothing and you need me to prove it to you in science.
Well something we will never understand as a race is why God doesn't make it more obvious so everyone can see his great acts. Its something I don't understand cause I don't get why he wouldn't make it obvious then nobody should go to Hell.
probably because his acts didnt happen. God may exist. ill always concede that possibility. science cant prove there is no God, and will probably never be able to. equally, miracles will probably never prove Gods existence (short of the Big Man himself paying us a visit, hopefully having calmed down on the genocide etc he was so fond of in the biblical days).
another simple choice is raised by religion. is it more likely that God hides his work, or that there is no work to see.
it is natural for humans to pick the obvious and straight forward answers. wherever religion appears it taints and disrupts this ability.




Who are you to say that "acts didnt exist". Although science cannot prove anything about the nature of God, it can logically prove that a God exist.
Also, to me "acts of God" dont need to be obvious, even though they are.
It is easy to see spiritual acts. One just has to be open.



Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you Well technically your wrong. 8) and he wants you to share that love with him and the first step to taken in his love is to have faith.
Christianity is built on FAITH. or control, lies, repression and blindly following a nonsense book? Hence why faith isnt blind.
Not proving to everyone that GOD is really there because he is,
and he shows up in really weird ways.
Just because he doesn't seem like he's in your life and crappy things are happening
he is and he wants you to share his love with him and it will help those crappy times feel not so crappy in a way thats true. one of the good things faith gives. a sense that we are not alone helps in trying times
Is my life as a christian great and dandy... Noooooo I have bad times... God helps me through those bad times by making something good happen out of them.
Like I said God works and shows up in weird ways.
Just have faith... Its hard to be a christian in our culture today and the world is pointing at an idea of helping your self
and WORRY about your self all the time.
I put others first and if the world would do that too, imagine it.
Not that this is a moral lesson.

HAVE FAITH

both christians and atheists think of helping others. the atheist would (apparently) go to hell even if he/she had devoted themselves to helping people. hardly seems fair a good person goes to hell does it? christianity never seems fair to me. [color=#FFFF00] Both people have got given the same choice, to believe or not to believe, we are not judged on our actions.

christianity can teach no real moral lessons an atheist cannot learn alone. and said atheist would avoid wars, lies, commandments and the other shackles that come with religion.[/color]
Morality is subjective.

[Demeisen]

this post was actually different. when i posted it many parts were missing. dont know how or why.

Christianity is more of a way of life, than a religion. I agree that people who blindly follow things are stupid and constantly test them. (Thus, lots of Christians dont like talking to me about religion)

no, its a strict religion in many cases. believe this or go to hell type of thing. surfing can be a way of life. yet surfers dont have to swere by lies written in some book of surf related BS


Who are you to say that "acts didnt exist". Although science cannot prove anything about the nature of God, it can logically prove that a God exist.
Also, to me "acts of God" dont need to be obvious, even though they are.
It is easy to see spiritual acts. One just has to be open.


who am i to say that? someone infinitely more sensible than you perhaps. . .
im sure science can be twisted to prove Gods existence. im sure science could prove im God if it was twisted enough. yes yes god works in mysterious ways that cannot be proven. mysteriously yet fortunate for the christians not having to prove something they cant eh? please name a spirtual act of God you witnessed, if you can. im guessing its something like a man giving a meal to a homeless dude or something. im sure individual decision based on good morals will have nothing to do with the 'act.'


Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you Well technically your wrong. have you ever read the old testament. if you have, i question your ability to understand simple written words.


Morality is subjective.
morals are important if someone wishes to act in a christian manner. many parts of the bible are nothing less than evil. if you take the christianity literally and the bible literally i can only assume you believe what it teaches is good. incest, rape, genocide and destruction are evil when subjected to any moral standard other than that of God or a dim witted creationist


Because blood shed, if it is just, is acceptable.

I dont believe, or see Christianity as repressive. It is ignorant to say that. When does Christianity "call" for oppression.

it is not just or acceptable to commit genocide under any circumstances. the biblical slaughters were not even just. christianity is not just, expecially in the distorted form you follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

if you read this you will see a clear case of the church repressing truth and knowledge. you cannot argue christianity hasnt fought against truth after reading those few paragraphs. although, from your earlier inability see truth and understand simple written statements (like you did with the bible) nothing would surprise me.

God may be the lord, but you are at least an Earl of Fail

[Mister Sandman]

Christianity is more of a way of life, than a religion. I agree that people who blindly follow things are stupid and constantly test them. (Thus, lots of Christians dont like talking to me about religion)

no, its a strict religion in many cases. believe this or go to hell type of thing. surfing can be a way of life. yet surfers dont have to swere by lies written in some book of surf related BS

In Cases, yes. However, it is intended to be a way of life. It is more than "Believe this or go to hell"


Who are you to say that "acts didnt exist". Although science cannot prove anything about the nature of God, it can logically prove that a God exist.
Also, to me "acts of God" dont need to be obvious, even though they are.
It is easy to see spiritual acts. One just has to be open.


who am i to say that? someone infinitely more sensible than you perhaps. . .
im sure science can be twisted to prove Gods existence. im sure science could prove im God if it was twisted enough. yes yes god works in mysterious ways that cannot be proven. mysteriously yet fortunate for the christians not having to prove something they cant eh? please name a spirtual act of God you witnessed, if you can. im guessing its something like a man giving a meal to a homeless dude or something. im sure individual decision based on good morals will have nothing to do with the 'act.'

Science can be twisted to prove anything really. However, there is no need to twist the "laws of science" to show a logical belief that there is a God.

A spiritual act is exorcism. A spiritual act is seeing healing which would other wise be impossible.

And as i said before, morals are subjective.

Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you Well technically your wrong. have you ever read the old testament. if you have, i question your ability to understand simple written words.
Have you ever red the new testament? If you have, I question your ability to understand simple written words.

Morality is subjective.
morals are important if someone wishes to act in a christian manner. many parts of the bible are nothing less than evil. if you take the christianity literally and the bible literally i can only assume you believe what it teaches is good. incest, rape, genocide and destruction are evil when subjected to any moral standard other than that of God or a dim witted creationist
Morals are still subjective. It doesnt matter if your Christian or not.

Quote where and how parts of the bible are "evil" as so to your claim.


It is true that the Bible is true and it commands against, incest, rape, genocide and destruction.

Because blood shed, if it is just, is acceptable.

I dont believe, or see Christianity as repressive. It is ignorant to say that. When does Christianity "call" for oppression.

it is not just or acceptable to commit genocide under any circumstances. the biblical slaughters were not even just. christianity is not just, expecially in the distorted form you follow.

And might I ask where is your evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

if you read this you will see a clear case of the church [color=#FFFF00]You mean Catholicism repressing truth and knowledge. you cannot argue christianity hasnt fought against truth after reading those few paragraphs.again Catholicism although, from your earlier inability see truth and understand simple written statements (like you did with the bible) nothing would surprise me.
[/color] [/quote]

[Demeisen]

Christianity is more of a way of life, than a religion. I agree that people who blindly follow things are stupid and constantly test them. (Thus, lots of Christians dont like talking to me about religion)

no, its a strict religion in many cases. believe this or go to hell type of thing. surfing can be a way of life. yet surfers dont have to swere by lies written in some book of surf related BS

In Cases, yes. However, it is intended to be a way of life. It is more than "Believe this or go to hell"
in christianity if you do not believe in God, you will go to hell. a huge portion of the christian religions are aimed at avoiding sin. the purpose of this? to get into heaven and be spared eternal suffering in hell. so in essence, christianity is about 'believe this or go to hell.'

Who are you to say that "acts didnt exist". Although science cannot prove anything about the nature of God, it can logically prove that a God exist.
Also, to me "acts of God" dont need to be obvious, even though they are.
It is easy to see spiritual acts. One just has to be open.


who am i to say that? someone infinitely more sensible than you perhaps. . .
im sure science can be twisted to prove Gods existence. im sure science could prove im God if it was twisted enough. yes yes god works in mysterious ways that cannot be proven. mysteriously yet fortunate for the christians not having to prove something they cant eh? please name a spirtual act of God you witnessed, if you can. im guessing its something like a man giving a meal to a homeless dude or something. im sure individual decision based on good morals will have nothing to do with the 'act.'

Science can be twisted to prove anything really. However, there is no need to twist the "laws of science" to show a logical belief that there is a God.

A spiritual act is exorcism. A spiritual act is seeing healing which would other wise be impossible.

And as i said before, morals are subjective.
lol exorcism lol faith healing. these are the examples you have witnessed? to compete with you on your level id have to say i saw a fairy to prove peter pan is a documentary.

whats right and wrong is easy to know when it comes to horrible acts.

Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you Well technically your wrong. have you ever read the old testament. if you have, i question your ability to understand simple written words.
Have you ever red the new testament? If you have, I question your ability to understand simple written words.

not the whole thing obviously but id say 11 years with religious education classes at school gives me a fair idea. and my asking whether you have read the old testament isnt like you asking me if ive read the new. my reading the new would not change what ive read in the old. the words are there for all to see. if you cannot see the old testament is brutal and wicked then i rightly question your ability to understand written language. if the godfather 4 was a childrens film full of rabbits and joy, it would not change what was in the previous films.

Morality is subjective.
morals are important if someone wishes to act in a christian manner. many parts of the bible are nothing less than evil. if you take the christianity literally and the bible literally i can only assume you believe what it teaches is good. incest, rape, genocide and destruction are evil when subjected to any moral standard other than that of God or a dim witted creationist
Morals are still subjective. It doesnt matter if your Christian or not.

Quote where and how parts of the bible are "evil" as so to your claim.


It is true that the Bible is true and it commands against, incest, rape, genocide and destruction.

are you serious lol you must have read a different bible to the one everyone else uses. your above statement is nothing other than a lie. unless you are ignorant? is that the case?

god has commanded the mass killing of entire peoples simply because of their location and more importantly their religion. that amounts to genocide regardless of the flowery religious reasons and so-called justifications.

evil acts in the bible:

an old man handed over his daughter and his levite priest's concubine to a mob in order to save his levite guest from being sodomized? hand them over for an entire night of rape and abuse which killed the concubine? and that resulted in revenge leading to the death of 60,000 men? the old mans action was justified and said to be correct in the bible. if that is the biblical idea of just and fair i would the bible evil. there is no doubt that it is an evil act being praised. the bible teaches skewed, evil and misogynistic morals by any normal persons definition if they but look for themselves. (Judges 19: 23-4) read it yourself.


the myth of Sodom and Gomorrah? its an interesting tale of incest, murder by God, drunkenness and the low respect/value accorded to women in the bible.
is Lot's offering to trade his daughters virginity to avoid the two angels being sodomized a christian act i wonder? i assume you know where in the bible to find this myth. . .


getting people to kill their innocent children (such as Jephthah had to. not forgetting the cruel 'joke' played by God on Abraham) is an evil thing to do. and please dont BS about evil depending on perspective etc. by any definition the above acts are evil. except apparently (according to your cult) Gods definition. according to you and the bible God is nothing more than an bulley, murderer and evil being who imposes suffering and his will on humanity.


Because blood shed, if it is just, is acceptable.

I dont believe, or see Christianity as repressive. It is ignorant to say that. When does Christianity "call" for oppression.

it is not just or acceptable to commit genocide under any circumstances. the biblical slaughters were not even just. christianity is not just, expecially in the distorted form you follow.

And might I ask where is your evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

if you read this you will see a clear case of the church [color=#FFFF00]You mean Catholicism repressing truth and knowledge. you cannot argue christianity hasnt fought against truth after reading those few paragraphs.again Catholicism although, from your earlier inability see truth and understand simple written statements (like you did with the bible) nothing would surprise me.
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and to whom do you attribute the retard creationist controls on american education? those controls which forced students to learn lies. who is to blame for that eh i suppose anyone but your creationist cult.


you fail

[Mister Sandman]

Christianity is more of a way of life, than a religion. I agree that people who blindly follow things are stupid and constantly test them. (Thus, lots of Christians dont like talking to me about religion)

no, its a strict religion in many cases. believe this or go to hell type of thing. surfing can be a way of life. yet surfers dont have to swere by lies written in some book of surf related BS

In Cases, yes. However, it is intended to be a way of life. It is more than "Believe this or go to hell"
in christianity if you do not believe in God, you will go to hell. [color=#FFFF00]Correct.a huge portion of the christian religions are aimed at avoiding sin. the purpose of this? to get into heaven and be spared eternal suffering in hell.Correct and wrong to extents. We cannot humanly attain to be faultless, avoidance of sin leads to a greater and more for filling life. so in essence, christianity is about 'believe this or go to hell.' In essence it is really your choice, it is presented, You either choose life, or death. It is wholly up to you.[/color]

Who are you to say that "acts didnt exist". Although science cannot prove anything about the nature of God, it can logically prove that a God exist.
Also, to me "acts of God" dont need to be obvious, even though they are.
It is easy to see spiritual acts. One just has to be open.


who am i to say that? someone infinitely more sensible than you perhaps. . .
im sure science can be twisted to prove Gods existence. im sure science could prove im God if it was twisted enough. yes yes god works in mysterious ways that cannot be proven. mysteriously yet fortunate for the christians not having to prove something they cant eh? please name a spirtual act of God you witnessed, if you can. im guessing its something like a man giving a meal to a homeless dude or something. im sure individual decision based on good morals will have nothing to do with the 'act.'

Science can be twisted to prove anything really. However, there is no need to twist the "laws of science" to show a logical belief that there is a God.

A spiritual act is exorcism. A spiritual act is seeing healing which would other wise be impossible.

And as i said before, morals are subjective.
lol exorcism lol faith healing. these are the examples you have witnessed? to compete with you on your level id have to say i saw a fairy to prove peter pan is a documentary.

whats right and wrong is easy to know when it comes to horrible acts.
Peter Pan is merely fictional that is common sense.

If you have the belief that there is spirits...you would understand. Go to Africa, and scientific prove every event. To the processed person, to the demons haunt the land.

In addition, acts of healing is not just "acts". I guess you've never seen healing acts.



Hell is a big word and I don't use it lightly because its a scary thought and im not a christian just because I will go to hell if im not.
God loves everyone well, to get technical, God only really loves jews, and even they suffer a lot of his anger. who God hates depends on religious perspective. God also tells people who they have to hate (which is very nice of him). he is a vengeful and jealous God. if you dont worship him its safe to assume he hates you and will shortly kill you Well technically your wrong. have you ever read the old testament. if you have, i question your ability to understand simple written words.
Have you ever red the new testament? If you have, I question your ability to understand simple written words.

not the whole thing obviously but id say 11 years with religious education classes at school gives me a fair idea. and my asking whether you have read the old testament isnt like you asking me if ive read the new. my reading the new would not change what ive read in the old. the words are there for all to see. if you cannot see the old testament is brutal and wicked then i rightly question your ability to understand written language. if the godfather 4 was a childrens film full of rabbits and joy, it would not change what was in the previous films.


You so called "education" blinds and binds you.

Both the new and old testament must be read if your going to have a clear depiction of the bible. Your whole translation will be highly influenced. It is like me reading half a book, taking it out of context for not all of it has been read.

I dont deny that the old testament is somewhat "old". It may tell of brutality, nether the less you still prove nothing.

Morality is subjective.
morals are important if someone wishes to act in a christian manner. many parts of the bible are nothing less than evil. if you take the christianity literally and the bible literally i can only assume you believe what it teaches is good. incest, rape, genocide and destruction are evil when subjected to any moral standard other than that of God or a dim witted creationist
Morals are still subjective. It doesnt matter if your Christian or not.

Quote where and how parts of the bible are "evil" as so to your claim.


It is true that the Bible is true and it commands against, incest, rape, genocide and destruction.

are you serious lol you must have read a different bible to the one everyone else uses. your above statement is nothing other than a lie. unless you are ignorant? is that the case?

god has commanded the mass killing of entire peoples simply because of their location and more importantly their religion. that amounts to genocide regardless of the flowery religious reasons and so-called justifications.

You don't provide evidence to support your claim, where is your evidence, without evidence you have no case. Let me share some evidence:

Bible commanding against Rape and Incest

Thou shalt not Murder ( Sixth Commandment )

* OT=Ex. 20:13; 21:21; Lev. 24:17, 21; Num. 35:31; Deut. 5:17
* NT=Matt. 5:21-22; Mark 10:19; Rom. 13:9; James 2:11
Against unjust genocide and destruction.

evil acts in the bible:

an old man handed over his daughter and his levite priest's concubine to a mob in order to save his levite guest from being sodomized? hand them over for an entire night of rape and abuse which killed the concubine? and that resulted in revenge leading to the death of 60,000 men? the old mans action was justified and said to be correct in the bible. if that is the biblical idea of just and fair i would the bible evil. there is no doubt that it is an evil act being praised. the bible teaches skewed, evil and misogynistic morals by any normal persons definition if they but look for themselves. (Judges 19: 23-4) read it yourself.

I guess you didnt get the message and ignorantly blinded yourself.


the myth of Sodom and Gomorrah?A place where there is not one man of Good. I think it had to be destroyed.

its an interesting tale of incest, murder by God, drunkenness and the low respect/value accorded to women in the bible.
is Lot's offering to trade his daughters virginity to avoid the two angels being sodomized a christian act i wonder? i assume you know where in the bible to find this myth. . .Lot, a righteous man surrounded by wickedness. It is telling that Sodom and Gomorrah were so evil and sinful that men of the city rather sodomise to defile man that to be pure.


getting people to kill their innocent children (such as Jephthah had to. not forgetting the cruel 'joke' played Test of faith by God on Abraham) is an evil thing to do. Not really and please dont BS about evil depending on perspective etc. by any definition the above acts are evil. except apparently (according to your cult) Gods definition. according to you and the bible God is nothing more than an bulley, murderer and evil being who imposes suffering and his will on humanity.According to you there is no God.[/color]


Because blood shed, if it is just, is acceptable.

I dont believe, or see Christianity as repressive. It is ignorant to say that. When does Christianity "call" for oppression.

it is not just or acceptable to commit genocide under any circumstances. the biblical slaughters were not even just. christianity is not just, expecially in the distorted form you follow.

You still dont present evidence.

And might I ask where is your evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

if you read this you will see a clear case of the church [color=#FFFF00]You mean Catholicism repressing truth and knowledge. you cannot argue christianity hasnt fought against truth after reading those few paragraphs.again Catholicism although, from your earlier inability see truth and understand simple written statements (like you did with the bible) nothing would surprise me.
[/color]

and to whom do you attribute the retard creationist controls on american education? [color=#FFFF00]Capitalism.those controls which forced students to learn lies. who is to blame for that eh i suppose anyone but your creationist cult. It isnt a cult..


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[Demeisen]

avoidance of sin leads to a greater and more for filling life

i beg to differ. meh when you are 60 and look back on your life im sure you will have fun memories full of obeying rules. i pity you.

Peter Pan is merely fictional that is common sense.

i used that example as it suits the fictional nature of the bible. i thought you would put 2 and 2 together and for once not end up with GOD!

In addition, acts of healing is not just "acts". I guess you've never seen healing acts.

you mean faith healers who shout about the lord while pretending to heal people? they are a joke and further prove how far from reality you live.

Both the new and old testament must be read if your going to have a clear depiction of the bible. Your whole translation will be highly influenced. It is like me reading half a book, taking it out of context for not all of it has been read.

this is quite simple to understand, even for a creationist. it does not matter how much of the bible i have read. if i read half a book, the half i read would not change after i read the other half. the evil events in the old testament are not affected by the new testament. they are still there for all to see. the bible is not one story. its a collection of stories. this means that what i have read is the entire biblical account of many events and thats all i need to evaluate them. a person can watch, understand and enjoy the 1st godfather film without having to watch the later ones.

I dont deny that the old testament is somewhat "old". It may tell of brutality, nether the less you still prove nothing.

somewhat old? thats a poor effort. how long did you spend dismissing words like evil, violent, primitave, shocking and wrong? i prove how stupid and intentionally ignorant some people are.

You don't provide evidence to support your claim, where is your evidence, without evidence you have no case. Let me share some evidence:

did you not see this:
'(Judges 19: 23-4) read it yourself'
in this tale a man offers up women to a mob to save his male guest from being sodimized. a woman endured a night of brutal rape and died as a result. the bible said this was the right thing to do.

A place where there is not one man of Good. I think it had to be destroyed.

you forgot Lot there, and possibly a lot more.

Lot, a righteous man surrounded by wickedness. It is telling that Sodom and Gomorrah were so evil and sinful that men of the city rather sodomise to defile man that to be pure.

you entirely miss the point. it does not matter what Lot is surrounded by. he himself offered his daughters to a mob knowing they would be raped and abused. why? to save angels from being sodomized. sacrificing his own daughters and the bible sees this as the right thing to do. explain that.
then explain what happened next. Lot ended up having sex with both of his daughters while he was too drunk to know what was going on. he wasnt too drunk to impregnate them though was he
the all knowing God choose this family to save from Sodom and Gomorrah. he saved a familiy who had incestuous relations with eachother, would offer eachother to a violent mod for a night of abuse and who drank to insensibility. that was the best the all knowing God could do eh? poor judgement on his part. it looks like a huge mistake unless he wanted to save these messed up people. . .

According to you there is no God

you are wrong. i believe there could be God. but i would never believe the God portrayed in the bible. if there is a God id like to think he/she was generally good or at least neutral. the biblical God is a bloodthirsty control freak.

[Mister Sandman]

avoidance of sin leads to a greater and more for filling life

i beg to differ. meh when you are 60 and look back on your life im sure you will have fun memories full of obeying rules. i pity you.


You pity me? I pity you.

All terms of fun is retaliative. It is joy that makes us fully appreciate what has happened in our life, the good and the bad.

Lets take a common sin. Sexual sin. It is common nature to sleep around these days before marriage. Strangely enough, more partners you have the less likely you are going to get married, and the more likely you are going to get devoiced. Sex is respect, if you do not save yourself for your wife/husband, your disrespecting them. Also, sex isnt all fun and games, there are things called STDs, unplanned pregnancy (which usually lead to murder or as the people in medical professions say abortion) and other ramifications.


Lets take another sin. Theft. Common sense, if you dont like beening stolen from, why would one steal? Money? Greed? Desperation? Glory?

In no such case someone should resort to theft.

Peter Pan is merely fictional that is common sense.

i used that example as it suits the fictional nature of the bible. i thought you would put 2 and 2 together and for once not end up with GOD!

You have no point.

In addition, acts of healing is not just "acts". I guess you've never seen healing acts.

you mean faith healers who shout about the lord while pretending to heal people? they are a joke and further prove how far from reality you live.

How can you judge? You know nothing of this line. Some, admittedly do fake and pretend, however, real judgement will come to them. However, there are genuine devotions, genuine acts of healing.

Both the new and old testament must be read if your going to have a clear depiction of the bible. Your whole translation will be highly influenced. It is like me reading half a book, taking it out of context for not all of it has been read.

this is quite simple to understand, even for a creationist. it does not matter how much of the bible i have read. if i read half a book, the half i read would not change after i read the other half. the evil events in the old testament are not affected by the new testament. they are still there for all to see. the bible is not one story. its a collection of stories. this means that what i have read is the entire biblical account of many events and thats all i need to evaluate them. a person can watch, understand and enjoy the 1st godfather film without having to watch the later ones.


I will use simple English for you.
1. You must understand everything in context.
2. You must not ignorantly use things out of context.
3. Both the old and new testament is one book. And thus, to gain a clear picture of meaning, both parts have been read. It is like me watching half of a movie and making pre-judgements.
4.Events of the old testament are not affected by the new treatment, yes however, understanding is affected.
5. The bible on no accord depicts God as evil and nor is he.

I dont deny that the old testament is somewhat "old". It may tell of brutality, nether the less you still prove nothing.

somewhat old? thats a poor effort. how long did you spend dismissing words like evil, violent, primitave, shocking and wrong? i prove how stupid and intentionally ignorant some people are.

I will not dismiss the truth. At times the old testament do tell of violence, evils, and other such primitive behaviour but this is on no accord to do with the reality of the bible.

You don't provide evidence to support your claim, where is your evidence, without evidence you have no case. Let me share some evidence:

did you not see this:
'(Judges 19: 23-4) read it yourself'
in this tale a man offers up women to a mob to save his male guest from being sodimized. a woman endured a night of brutal rape and died as a result. the bible said this was the right thing to do. Did it say it were the right thing to do? Where?

A place where there is not one man of Good. I think it had to be destroyed.

you forgot Lot there, and possibly a lot more.

Doubt it, God knows everything.

Lot, a righteous man surrounded by wickedness. It is telling that Sodom and Gomorrah were so evil and sinful that men of the city rather sodomise to defile man that to be pure.

you entirely miss the point. it does not matter what Lot is surrounded by. he himself offered his daughters to a mob knowing they would be raped and abused. why? to save angels from being sodomized.

I hope you know what sodomy is...and how it is not appropriate of such holiness to be associated with such act.

sacrificing his own daughters and the bible sees this as the right thing to do. explain that.

Sacrificing is self explaining, deeming other as better than oneself.


then explain what happened next. Lot ended up having sex with both of his daughters while he was too drunk to know what was going on. he wasnt too drunk to impregnate them though was he


the all knowing God choose this family to save from Sodom and Gomorrah. he saved a familiy who had incestuous relations with eachother, would offer eachother to a violent mod for a night of abuse and who drank to insensibility. that was the best the all knowing God could do eh? poor judgement on his part. it looks like a huge mistake unless he wanted to save these messed up people. . .


Continuing the family line. Last resort. Not uncommon practice in that era. You may as well say everyone commits incest for we are all related though Adam and eve.

According to you there is no God

you are wrong. i believe there could be God. but i would never believe the God portrayed in the bible. if there is a God id like to think he/she was generally good or at least neutral. the biblical God is a bloodthirsty control freak.

And God is Good, not a bloodthirsty control freak in what you somewhat illogically believe.