Covert Alteration

[god]

maybe just a new covert attack that is aimed at destroying spies at a hefty cost, so that it lowers both coverts some... I dunno, i have always thought that the problem with covert is that it has no opposite... Strike is fought with defense, defense is fought with strike... covert is only folught with covert... ideally, there should be something that counteracts covert, but i can't think of what that could be.

[Daff]

I don't think everyone get's the point of this suggestion. Changing the covert values will have no effect on the strength of covert. It just measn they'll be smaller numbers. Your covert will still be just as effective as before, just the number won't be so high.

[Aussie Babsy]

Reducing the power of covert is not the answer. I believe that the answer is to nullify the untouchability of covert, but in such a way that it is fair to all concerned. Being able to simply destroy someone's covert overnight is not fair - but I do believe that being able to attack covert is something that is needed - i.e. being able to kill spies.

I also think that spies should undergo some virtual training - i.e. so that when you train some spies up, they do not start at wahtever your spy level is immediately. The choice would be that they would start at Level 1 and would, over time, attain the spy level you are at. Alternatively, they could start at a certain level below the spy level of teh player.

A third option would be that when you train your spies - a different cost is imposed dependent on which spy level (up to your level) you want to train them - then they increase level with time/experience.

Now this could be tied in with the fact that spies are lost on sabotage missions - the most inexperienced (hence lower level spies) are killed first.

The same can be said if the ability to kill spies is introduced. The less experienced, lower level spies, would be killed first, but as they are killed off, the more experienced spies take more effort and are harder to kill.
This would make it hard, but not impossible to effectively reduce somebody's covert. Attacks of this nature could have a limit as to the amount carried out against a player - as the existing covert abilities do now.

Another idea may be to have a new type of sabotage mission, aimed at destroying training facilities, which could reduce a players Spy Level - but personally I like my spy killing idea better.

I really like that idea Wolf. I especially like the idea that spies could cost more depending on the level. Once you have a decent UP, spies become so easy to make. 3500 Naq a pop versus 91,000 Naq to train an attacker or defender into a super unit (baring race factors) and then another 216,000 Naq or 590,000 Naq per weapon if you're ascended. The cost of spies makes it very appealing to focus on covert. Scaling that somehow would make the pursuit of spies a lot less easy in comparison to the rest of your army.

I like the concept of this idea, but i thing it needs a section of it's own.
thats why i said

:( , I'm 100% abot this, I'd need to see a detaled explnation of your idea

:roll: I don't think everyone get's the point of this suggestion. Changing the covert values will have no effect on the strength of covert. It just measn they'll be smaller numbers. Your covert will still be just as effective as before, just the number won't be so high.

and I agree 100% with this

[~Phoenix~]

Reducing the power of covert is not the answer. I believe that the answer is to nullify the untouchability of covert, but in such a way that it is fair to all concerned. Being able to simply destroy someone's covert overnight is not fair - but I do believe that being able to attack covert is something that is needed - i.e. being able to kill spies.

I also think that spies should undergo some virtual training - i.e. so that when you train some spies up, they do not start at wahtever your spy level is immediately. The choice would be that they would start at Level 1 and would, over time, attain the spy level you are at. Alternatively, they could start at a certain level below the spy level of teh player.

A third option would be that when you train your spies - a different cost is imposed dependent on which spy level (up to your level) you want to train them - then they increase level with time/experience.

Now this could be tied in with the fact that spies are lost on sabotage missions - the most inexperienced (hence lower level spies) are killed first.

The same can be said if the ability to kill spies is introduced. The less experienced, lower level spies, would be killed first, but as they are killed off, the more experienced spies take more effort and are harder to kill.
This would make it hard, but not impossible to effectively reduce somebody's covert. Attacks of this nature could have a limit as to the amount carried out against a player - as the existing covert abilities do now.

Another idea may be to have a new type of sabotage mission, aimed at destroying training facilities, which could reduce a players Spy Level - but personally I like my spy killing idea better.

Thats a good idea... but with a flaw... covert will still power alliances way higher than attack and defense. Which was the main point of my suggestion.

[The Dalek Empire]

:roll: I don't think everyone get's the point of this suggestion. Changing the covert values will have no effect on the strength of covert. It just measn they'll be smaller numbers. Your covert will still be just as effective as before, just the number won't be so high.

So erm... what's the point of that? The only effect I can see is on Alliance Rankings, which could be solved far more easily than a total Covert overhaul.

Simply calculate alliance rank by calculating total covert rank, attack rank and defence rank, rather than using covert power, attack power and defence power.

With the long winded explanation he gave, I thought he was proposing more than he was.

[Rob--1]

i think the whole point is that covert power is playing to big a part in the rank of someone and their alliance.. what is 5 or 10bil def gonna do when u have say 5 trillion covert?
but yes some thing also needs to be done about covert and attack weapons, some people are just sitting there having a laugh knowing they cant be hit... isnt it called gate wars for a reason?

[Wolf359]

^^^^^^^^^^
What he said!

Hi Rob - long time no see!!

[Aussie Babsy]

i think the whole point is that covert power is playing to big a part in the rank of someone and their alliance.. what is 5 or 10bil def gonna do when u have say 5 trillion covert?
but yes some thing also needs to be done about covert and attack weapons, some people are just sitting there having a laugh knowing they cant be hit... isnt it called gate wars for a reason?

I think if there where no farms it would be more of a wars game

[Artiglio]

i think the whole point is that covert power is playing to big a part in the rank of someone and their alliance.. what is 5 or 10bil def gonna do when u have say 5 trillion covert?
but yes some thing also needs to be done about covert and attack weapons, some people are just sitting there having a laugh knowing they cant be hit... isnt it called gate wars for a reason?

I think if there where no farms it would be more of a wars game

not really, with out being able to farm naq how do you plan to war?

no naq = no weapons = no wars

[Aussie Babsy]

i think the whole point is that covert power is playing to big a part in the rank of someone and their alliance.. what is 5 or 10bil def gonna do when u have say 5 trillion covert?
but yes some thing also needs to be done about covert and attack weapons, some people are just sitting there having a laugh knowing they cant be hit... isnt it called gate wars for a reason?

I think if there where no farms it would be more of a wars game

not really, with out being able to farm naq how do you plan to war?

no naq = no weapons = no wars

no farms in the first place = everyone in the same positions = attacking each other

[Sleeper]

Only ideal i really see being able to work is having a new unit capable of killing spies. if this was based on covert like someone suggested earlier it would be pointless. lowering the power of covert would just change the alliance ranks and not the face of covert itself.

[chunkysoup]

i dont mind how effective or powerful covert is, i feel its ok at the moment, but maybe reduce the numbers a bit, the covert is say reduced by a power of 2 but it can still destroy the same amount of weapons.

:roll: I don't think everyone get's the point of this suggestion. Changing the covert values will have no effect on the strength of covert. It just measn they'll be smaller numbers. Your covert will still be just as effective as before, just the number won't be so high.

I think these two are the only ones that really got the point of what phoenix was saying... Essentially, on your command center page, instead of saying Covert Power: 500,000 it would say Covert Power: 250,000....

Get it? If everyone's was divided by two, then covert would still be just as powerful as before... ie - if I could sab you before and take out x weapons, I can still sab you now and take out x weapons, but when calculated commander rankings and alliance rankings, covert would play a smaller role. Anyone that knows what happens on alliance rankings when prior joins/leaves an alliance knows what I'm talking about. This proposal will simply shift around alliance rankings a bit, and it wouldn't affect gameplay or anyone's ability to sab/recon anyone else AT ALL. Sheesh. You're right phoenix... most people just can't read

-Chunkysoup

[Nostradamus]

I there has to by a scaling down factor it should be 100. So insted of having 1 trilion covert you will only have 10 bil - this seems very fair, with 1 trilion cover you are in top 40 as well as with a 10 bil defense.

Again ... only the numbers will change, covert power will remain the same.

[Wolf359]

i dont mind how effective or powerful covert is, i feel its ok at the moment, but maybe reduce the numbers a bit, the covert is say reduced by a power of 2 but it can still destroy the same amount of weapons.

:roll: I don't think everyone get's the point of this suggestion. Changing the covert values will have no effect on the strength of covert. It just measn they'll be smaller numbers. Your covert will still be just as effective as before, just the number won't be so high.

I think these two are the only ones that really got the point of what phoenix was saying... Essentially, on your command center page, instead of saying Covert Power: 500,000 it would say Covert Power: 250,000....

Get it? If everyone's was divided by two, then covert would still be just as powerful as before... ie - if I could sab you before and take out x weapons, I can still sab you now and take out x weapons, but when calculated commander rankings and alliance rankings, covert would play a smaller role. Anyone that knows what happens on alliance rankings when prior joins/leaves an alliance knows what I'm talking about. This proposal will simply shift around alliance rankings a bit, and it wouldn't affect gameplay or anyone's ability to sab/recon anyone else AT ALL. Sheesh. You're right phoenix... most people just can't read

-Chunkysoup

Agree with you chunky dude! (As I agreed that I should re-instate my old avatar - ), but I believe my point was valid - the 'size' of covert power is not the problem - the problem is it's invulnerability and it's contribution to overall player/alliance power. It's effect on overall power should be scaled down, but I can see no reason in dividing everyones covert power by a factor of X as, relatively, the effect of each will still be the same.

A method of killing covert is needed and, modestly, I have to say that I think mine is the best suggestion so far.

[The Deity]

I like your idea/s Wolf but I have to say, the easiest solution is almost always the best. It was relatively easy for Forum to increase the Mothership's attributes by a factor of ten. A small downsizing of covert by a factor of 100 would not be hard to implement. Secondly, not to sure if I'm allowed to say this but here goes, there is a method in the Ascended server by which you can hunt Spies and I wouldn't be surprised if Forum was to implement it on the Main server as he already has all the source code available.