F-15SE Silent Eagle

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

ST. LOUIS, March 17, 2009 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today in St. Louis unveiled the F-15 Silent Eagle (F-15SE), a new F-15 configuration designed to meet the future needs of international customers.

"The F-15 Silent Eagle is designed to meet our international customers' anticipated need for cost-effective stealth technologies, as well as for large and diverse weapons payloads," said Mark Bass, F-15 Program vice president for Boeing. "The innovative Silent Eagle is a balanced, affordable approach designed to meet future survivability needs."

Improvements in stealth include coatings and treatments on the aircraft. With the added advantage of redesigned conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) that allow for internal weapons carriage, the Silent Eagle becomes a very attractive fighter for Boeing's international customers.

Depending on the specific mission, the customer can use the CFTs that are designed for internal carriage or change back to the traditional CFTs for optimum fuel capacity and external weapons carriage. The Silent Eagle will be able to internally carry air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 and AIM-120 and air-to-ground weapons such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). The standard weapons load used on current versions of the F-15 is available with the traditional CFTs installed.

The aircraft's canted vertical tails improve aerodynamic efficiency, provide lift, and reduce airframe weight. Another aerodynamic improvement is the Digital Flight Control System, which improves the aircraft's reliability and reduces airframe weight.

Survivability improvements include a BAES Digital Electronic Warfare System (DEWS) working in concert with the Raytheon Advanced Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar.

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch.

The design, development, and test of this internal carriage system are available as a collaborative project with an international aerospace partner.

http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/f15/f15se.jpg
http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/f15/f15se_side.jpg


I hope the USAF gets some of these. They'd be a good compliment to the pricy F-22. Much better than the worthless F-35 JSF.

[Solus]

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... hy-f-.html

saw this a few days back.

~soul

[Nuto vixen]

ST. LOUIS, March 17, 2009 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today in St. Louis unveiled the F-15 Silent Eagle (F-15SE), a new F-15 configuration designed to meet the future needs of international customers.

"The F-15 Silent Eagle is designed to meet our international customers' anticipated need for cost-effective stealth technologies, as well as for large and diverse weapons payloads," said Mark Bass, F-15 Program vice president for Boeing. "The innovative Silent Eagle is a balanced, affordable approach designed to meet future survivability needs."

Improvements in stealth include coatings and treatments on the aircraft. With the added advantage of redesigned conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) that allow for internal weapons carriage, the Silent Eagle becomes a very attractive fighter for Boeing's international customers.

Depending on the specific mission, the customer can use the CFTs that are designed for internal carriage or change back to the traditional CFTs for optimum fuel capacity and external weapons carriage. The Silent Eagle will be able to internally carry air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-9 and AIM-120 and air-to-ground weapons such as the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB). The standard weapons load used on current versions of the F-15 is available with the traditional CFTs installed.

The aircraft's canted vertical tails improve aerodynamic efficiency, provide lift, and reduce airframe weight. Another aerodynamic improvement is the Digital Flight Control System, which improves the aircraft's reliability and reduces airframe weight.

Survivability improvements include a BAES Digital Electronic Warfare System (DEWS) working in concert with the Raytheon Advanced Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar.

Boeing has completed a conceptual prototype of the CFT internal-carriage concept, and plans to flight-test a prototype by the first quarter of 2010, including a live missile launch.

The design, development, and test of this internal carriage system are available as a collaborative project with an international aerospace partner.

http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/f15/f15se.jpg
http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/f15/f15se_side.jpg


I hope the USAF gets some of these. They'd be a good compliment to the pricy F-22. Much better than the worthless F-35 JSF.

Please explain why you said it was BETTER than the F-35. Is that because Lockheed Martin have created it and not Boeing? I'd love to hear your reasoning.

I have just seen the F35 Lightening in all its glory at an airshow, displayed only, however even stationary, this thing was damn impressive. Very VERY sexy to look at and it's engine made most of the mechanical engineers I've spoken to drool. It's a lot smoother than the others too, not as sharp in appearance and it seems smaller too.

This is depressing though: Australia is participating in the F-35's development, but has not yet placed an order for the aircraft. It is expected that some 75 to 100 F-35As will be ordered to replace the Royal Australian Air Force's (RAAF's) F/A-18 Hornet aircraft.

The depressing part is we just retired the F-111 and replaced them with F/A-18 Hornets, so we wont be seeing those F-35's for a whole long time

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

Please explain why you said it was BETTER than the F-35. Is that because Lockheed Martin have created it and not Boeing? I'd love to hear your reasoning.

I have just seen the F35 Lightening in all its glory at an airshow, displayed only, however even stationary, this thing was damn impressive. Very VERY sexy to look at and it's engine made most of the mechanical engineers I've spoken to drool. It's a lot smoother than the others too, not as sharp in appearance and it seems smaller too.

He said it's worthless because it is more of a strike aircraft then a fighter whereas the F-15 plays both roles marvelously. Then there is the issue with the single super complicated engine. Fighter engines have a tendency to flame out, this is not so bad on a dual engine craft like the F-15, but as the F-16 showed us, having only one engine can turn a fighter into an outrageously overpriced lawn dart.

That(for the most part, I'll explain on down), and the fact that the likely modern enemies it'll face are superior to it in nearly every catigory. Speed, Manuverability, weapons payload, all of which is surpassed by the Su-30MKI & Su-30MKM & other Su-27/-30 series fighters.

Now, the engine of the F-35 does have the highest thrust for a fighter and it is fairly simple, actually 20% less complicated than the also simple F119 in the F-22. However, because of the massive weight of the F-35(nearly that of an empty F-15C), it's slower than the F-16C.

Also, I've seen the mockup of the F-35 you speak of, Nuto vixen. Yes it looks good, but I think in this case, the saying of 'If it looks good, it is good' is wrong. It's a reverse of the F-4, which went the opposite of the saying and was ugly yet did EVERYTHING that was asked of it.

Oh, and I don't care who made it. Boeing, LockMart, NorthGrum, etc, I don't care, just as long as it does the job the best. And the F-35 fails to do that.

[Solus]

Boeing, LockMart, NorthGrum, etc....

lol....

also something to add, the thing that seperates the current generation and previous generation fighters is their stealth capability. rear axis, newer fighters have less of an IR signature (jet exhaust whatnot...) front on, the radar reflectivity of something like a standard F-15E (with a fairly open access engine intake) is a lot heftier than that of the F-22 or the F-35C.... also considering the reflectivity reduced by having an internal weapons bay instead of wing pylon weapon mounts.....

someone would have done a LOT of work on the aeroframe of the silent eagle to get it anywhere near the reflectivity front on of the F-35..... (in the link i posted there is a reference to the silent eagle being on-par with the F-35 in terms of stealth capability.)

so when you place a priority on a single engine, stealth, internal weapon'd aircraft, its a fairly complex task. the likelyhood of the silent eagle being on par with an F-35 in that way
a: seems highly unrealistic, and
b: because of any gains like this the priority isnt on air to air/air to sea/land combat...

not to say it isnt capable of it, but as has been stated, the F-35C is prioritised in combat roles for air to land/sea support roles. it isnt an air superiority fighter so comparing it to a purpose built F-15 (modified or not) is i beleive, naive. in the same way that modifying a sedan and a truck into a people mover, then comparing them would be naive....

i have to say though, building a 'between generations' fighter like this is very interesting to me even though it may end up being a load of bull.

im pondering though, what would be the likelyhood of combining technologies from the silent eagle and the F-15 ACTIVE or the F15S/MTD? i mean i know it wont happen any time soon at all, but i have no clue if they'd be compatible..... again, interesting

~soul

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

Boeing, LockMart, NorthGrum, etc....

lol....

also something to add, the thing that seperates the current generation and previous generation fighters is their stealth capability. rear axis, newer fighters have less of an IR signature (jet exhaust whatnot...) front on, the radar reflectivity of something like a standard F-15E (with a fairly open access engine intake) is a lot heftier than that of the F-22 or the F-35C.... also considering the reflectivity reduced by having an internal weapons bay instead of wing pylon weapon mounts.....

someone would have done a LOT of work on the aeroframe of the silent eagle to get it anywhere near the reflectivity front on of the F-35..... (in the link i posted there is a reference to the silent eagle being on-par with the F-35 in terms of stealth capability.)

so when you place a priority on a single engine, stealth, internal weapon'd aircraft, its a fairly complex task. the likelyhood of the silent eagle being on par with an F-35 in that way
a: seems highly unrealistic, and
b: because of any gains like this the priority isnt on air to air/air to sea/land combat...

not to say it isnt capable of it, but as has been stated, the F-35C is prioritised in combat roles for air to land/sea support roles. it isnt an air superiority fighter so comparing it to a purpose built F-15 (modified or not) is i beleive, naive. in the same way that modifying a sedan and a truck into a people mover, then comparing them would be naive....

i have to say though, building a 'between generations' fighter like this is very interesting to me even though it may end up being a load of bull.

im pondering though, what would be the likelyhood of combining technologies from the silent eagle and the F-15 ACTIVE or the F15S/MTD? i mean i know it wont happen any time soon at all, but i have no clue if they'd be compatible..... again, interesting

~soul

First off, Stealth isn't the thing that separates 4.5gen to 5th gen. There's also Super Manuverability & Super Cruise.

As for the RCS of the F-15SE, Boeing is adding quite a bit of addons to the F-15E to get the RCS down. Such as durable RAM on the front engine fan, RAM along the nose & wing edge, the visible angled tails, the internal bays, and the usage of radar blockers in the intakes.

Also, the F-15E, which the F-15SE is designed from, is a totally different aircraft than the F-15C. The only thing that have in common is the airframe design. This was done as the F-15C had a bit of A2G potental, but after being totally redesign, it was the best multirole ever and compared to the multirole F-35, the F-15E kicks the Lightning's ass badly. The only thing the F-35 has that the Beagle can't get is all-round stealth, and that's it. With upgrades, the Beagle can get the intergrated sensors the F-35 has, thus leaving the only stealth as the saving grace.

[Solus]

Boeing, LockMart, NorthGrum, etc....

lol....

also something to add, the thing that seperates the current generation and previous generation fighters is their stealth capability. rear axis, newer fighters have less of an IR signature (jet exhaust whatnot...) front on, the radar reflectivity of something like a standard F-15E (with a fairly open access engine intake) is a lot heftier than that of the F-22 or the F-35C.... also considering the reflectivity reduced by having an internal weapons bay instead of wing pylon weapon mounts.....

someone would have done a LOT of work on the aeroframe of the silent eagle to get it anywhere near the reflectivity front on of the F-35..... (in the link i posted there is a reference to the silent eagle being on-par with the F-35 in terms of stealth capability.)

so when you place a priority on a single engine, stealth, internal weapon'd aircraft, its a fairly complex task. the likelyhood of the silent eagle being on par with an F-35 in that way
a: seems highly unrealistic, and
b: because of any gains like this the priority isnt on air to air/air to sea/land combat...

not to say it isnt capable of it, but as has been stated, the F-35C is prioritised in combat roles for air to land/sea support roles. it isnt an air superiority fighter so comparing it to a purpose built F-15 (modified or not) is i beleive, naive. in the same way that modifying a sedan and a truck into a people mover, then comparing them would be naive....

i have to say though, building a 'between generations' fighter like this is very interesting to me even though it may end up being a load of bull.

im pondering though, what would be the likelyhood of combining technologies from the silent eagle and the F-15 ACTIVE or the F15S/MTD? i mean i know it wont happen any time soon at all, but i have no clue if they'd be compatible..... again, interesting

~soul

First off, Stealth isn't the thing that separates 4.5gen to 5th gen. There's also Super Manuverability & Super Cruise.

As for the RCS of the F-15SE, Boeing is adding quite a bit of addons to the F-15E to get the RCS down. Such as durable RAM on the front engine fan, RAM along the nose & wing edge, the visible angled tails, the internal bays, and the usage of radar blockers in the intakes.

Also, the F-15E, which the F-15SE is designed from, is a totally different aircraft than the F-15C. The only thing that have in common is the airframe design. This was done as the F-15C had a bit of A2G potental, but after being totally redesign, it was the best multirole ever and compared to the multirole F-35, the F-15E kicks the Lightning's ass badly. The only thing the F-35 has that the Beagle can't get is all-round stealth, and that's it. With upgrades, the Beagle can get the intergrated sensors the F-35 has, thus leaving the only stealth as the saving grace.

neither of the Silent Eagle or the F35 have 'all round' stealth capability..... as soon as the weapons bay doors are open that alone is enough for a radar to be used against it more effectively, for example.

yes, supermaneuverability has been an advance in generations however i dont see it as important as the stealth capability. i didnt say 'the only' thing seperating generations, merely the main thing. supercruise too, i mean in reality, supercruise is good.... but hardly used in dogfighting or air to ground roles.

i dont think i referred directly to the F-15C comparing to the F-15E, though i might be mistaken, fairly tired. i didnt actually intend on distinguishing between the two, just to refer to F-15's generically. (when i typed the forst post it was about 8:30am or so, i didnt get to sleep till around 3am....)

but most of what i said about the modifications didnt really specify much else than aeroframe modifications which you say yourself was the aeroframe design.

you reiterating the F15's superiority over the F35's air power seems redundant, i was agreeing with this. i referred to the F15 being purpose built, yes it can perform the other roles, however it wasnt designed to be a compremise between dogfighting and stealth.

and as for the RCS? well.... its a HUGE task to get an aircraft not designed for stealth to mimick to a degree the characteristics of a stealth multirole aircraft. rams, radar blocking, whatever. without major aeroframe work it wouldnt be very achievable. i didnt say they hadnt, just that i doubt the likelihood.

also i said lol and quoted you because when you referred to "NorthGrum" i couldnt help but imagine "Pops" (not apophis for those who dont know, a charachter from Ace Combat 5) talking about 'Grunder'.

i hope that clears up any misconceptions in what i said..... if i forgot anything, i guess ill re-iterate later. nao, must go do stuff.....

~soul

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

Boeing, LockMart, NorthGrum, etc....

lol....

also something to add, the thing that seperates the current generation and previous generation fighters is their stealth capability. rear axis, newer fighters have less of an IR signature (jet exhaust whatnot...) front on, the radar reflectivity of something like a standard F-15E (with a fairly open access engine intake) is a lot heftier than that of the F-22 or the F-35C.... also considering the reflectivity reduced by having an internal weapons bay instead of wing pylon weapon mounts.....

someone would have done a LOT of work on the aeroframe of the silent eagle to get it anywhere near the reflectivity front on of the F-35..... (in the link i posted there is a reference to the silent eagle being on-par with the F-35 in terms of stealth capability.)

so when you place a priority on a single engine, stealth, internal weapon'd aircraft, its a fairly complex task. the likelyhood of the silent eagle being on par with an F-35 in that way
a: seems highly unrealistic, and
b: because of any gains like this the priority isnt on air to air/air to sea/land combat...

not to say it isnt capable of it, but as has been stated, the F-35C is prioritised in combat roles for air to land/sea support roles. it isnt an air superiority fighter so comparing it to a purpose built F-15 (modified or not) is i beleive, naive. in the same way that modifying a sedan and a truck into a people mover, then comparing them would be naive....

i have to say though, building a 'between generations' fighter like this is very interesting to me even though it may end up being a load of bull.

im pondering though, what would be the likelyhood of combining technologies from the silent eagle and the F-15 ACTIVE or the F15S/MTD? i mean i know it wont happen any time soon at all, but i have no clue if they'd be compatible..... again, interesting

~soul

First off, Stealth isn't the thing that separates 4.5gen to 5th gen. There's also Super Manuverability & Super Cruise.

As for the RCS of the F-15SE, Boeing is adding quite a bit of addons to the F-15E to get the RCS down. Such as durable RAM on the front engine fan, RAM along the nose & wing edge, the visible angled tails, the internal bays, and the usage of radar blockers in the intakes.

Also, the F-15E, which the F-15SE is designed from, is a totally different aircraft than the F-15C. The only thing that have in common is the airframe design. This was done as the F-15C had a bit of A2G potental, but after being totally redesign, it was the best multirole ever and compared to the multirole F-35, the F-15E kicks the Lightning's ass badly. The only thing the F-35 has that the Beagle can't get is all-round stealth, and that's it. With upgrades, the Beagle can get the intergrated sensors the F-35 has, thus leaving the only stealth as the saving grace.

neither of the Silent Eagle or the F35 have 'all round' stealth capability..... as soon as the weapons bay doors are open that alone is enough for a radar to be used against it more effectively, for example.

yes, supermaneuverability has been an advance in generations however i dont see it as important as the stealth capability. i didnt say 'the only' thing seperating generations, merely the main thing. supercruise too, i mean in reality, supercruise is good.... but hardly used in dogfighting or air to ground roles.

i dont think i referred directly to the F-15C comparing to the F-15E, though i might be mistaken, fairly tired. i didnt actually intend on distinguishing between the two, just to refer to F-15's generically. (when i typed the forst post it was about 8:30am or so, i didnt get to sleep till around 3am....)

but most of what i said about the modifications didnt really specify much else than aeroframe modifications which you say yourself was the aeroframe design.

you reiterating the F15's superiority over the F35's air power seems redundant, i was agreeing with this. i referred to the F15 being purpose built, yes it can perform the other roles, however it wasnt designed to be a compremise between dogfighting and stealth.

and as for the RCS? well.... its a HUGE task to get an aircraft not designed for stealth to mimick to a degree the characteristics of a stealth multirole aircraft. rams, radar blocking, whatever. without major aeroframe work it wouldnt be very achievable. i didnt say they hadnt, just that i doubt the likelihood.

also i said lol and quoted you because when you referred to "NorthGrum" i couldnt help but imagine "Pops" (not apophis for those who dont know, a charachter from Ace Combat 5) talking about 'Grunder'.

i hope that clears up any misconceptions in what i said..... if i forgot anything, i guess ill re-iterate later. nao, must go do stuff.....

~soul

The F-35 is all round stealth, meaning from all angles. The opening of Bomb Bay doors don't count.

Super Manuverablity & Super Cruise are very much important in the dogfight. And if you're going to go bomb a target, it's very nice to be able to dodge & evade those pesky SAMs that'll come after you, so the SM & SC are very handy.

Compromise is a no-no in my book, if you can't get it to do it all in one airframes, get different **Filtered** airframes. Cost is no excuse, those damn companies know exactly how to drive up the cost and Congress & the USAF knows it and yet does nothing. Oh... I just know the Fighter Mafia would be rolling in their graves if they saw how the USAF is doing things.

To sum everything up in 20 words or less, Get rid of the F-35 and go buy more damn F-22A Raptors, they'll do the job right. Though that'll never happen, even though at the rate of increase of the F-35's cost, the F-35 will be more expensive than the Raptor.

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

The F-35 is a strike craft, not a fighter but does have fighter capabilities. The F-22 is exclusively a fighter, it can not carry bombs and can only carry a limited assortment of A2A missiles. What you suggest is like telling an F1 driver to sell his car and buy a drag racer.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

The F-35 is a fighter, that's why it has the F in it. It's suppose to replace the F-16 in the Lo mix of the USAF's Hi-Lo plan.

The F-22 isn't just a fighter, it's also a very good strike aircraft. It carries GPS guided JDAMs and soon the Small Diameter Bomb.

And it's like telling the F1 Driver to stop driving a junker and get in a damn F1 car.

[Solus]

F-117 nighthawk, not a fighter...
F-111, designed as a multirole, soon discovered it was HORRIBLE at A/A.

F-35 isnt a fighter or a strike aircraft. its a MULTIROLE, leaning towards strike. F-35's have a use, so do the F-22's. getting rid of one or the other would be like taking a perfectly able man and amputating an arm or leg, giving a reason like "the arm cant walk, the leg cant punch" or something.

and why dont the open weapon bays count? when open the radar reflectivity increases a great amount. you know this as well as i do. all round? it says "all round" not "all round, when the pilot feels like it".

Compromise is a no-no in my book, if you can't get it to do it all in one airframes, get different **Filtered** airframes. Cost is no excuse, those damn companies know exactly how to drive up the cost and Congress & the USAF knows it and yet does nothing. Oh... I just know the Fighter Mafia would be rolling in their graves if they saw how the USAF is doing things.

thats what i was saying. i prefer an aircraft purpose built. and cost is ALWAYS a concern, how much do you think air forces other than the USAF have to throw around? ive seen countless photographs including one of about 4 F-22's in Taxi at a Hawaiian air base. how much per unit to buy, arm, fuel and train the pilots do you think it costs? why do you think the australian air force still uses F/A-18s as a primary aircraft, and hopefully F-35's on the way? we cant afford F-22's, we dont want F-22's. yes, we dont want them. theres other things to consider than just cost too.

and again i didnt say that supermaneuverability and supercruise weren't important, just not AS important as stealth. supermaneuverability i'll concede is a very important thing, but only in games like Ace Combat or HAWX to you ever go supersonic - in a dogfight, thus supercruise imo isnt as important (notice i said "isnt as important", and not "isnt important") trust me here, in reality, supersonic speeds are NOT used in dogfights. maybe a quick air to air strike in a fly by maybe but not dogfights.

~soul