i look at the world and all i see is humanity sleepwalking!

[[KMA]Avenger]

well pooky, i gotta hand it to you for over complicating the issue here

regardless of what i believe to be *reality* here, the trouble is your still out to get me because you don't agree with how i post (i don't know of any other way). i'm not looking to put "the burden of proof" on you or anyone else for that matter. regardless if i provide iron clad proof or not, if i provided you with iron clad proof i would still tell you to go look for yourself its not a matter of my beliefs or yours for that matter, its a matter of what "they" believe and do that is the point here.

i trust that the info i have given you is true because i myself have gone and looked at independent sources away from other peoples research, i have seen declassified documentation of Government sponsored terrorism, i have seen leaked memos and stolen confidential documentation and all manor of other documents...in fact, i have on my computer a 700 meg file that proves that treason was commited in 1972 when we went into the EU under the guise of "trade agreements", and that every subsequent Government of the UK has been an accomplice to treason after the fact!

i am trying to bring something to peoples attention, what you do with the info from there on is your business.

we either debate the topic at hand or we leave where it is, its pointless you criticizing my methods when you don't even look at the info.

what's right is right and what's wrong is and that's all i care to think about.

edit:

i have provided proof in the past from the horses mouth, from quotes by Amschel Rothschild to the Rockefeller's stating they want world Government and a single currency and wanting to kill 80 to 90% of all people on the planet. you have David Rockefeller on record and even in his own memoirs stating in the 70's that he wanted to de-industrialize America and crash the economy...this is nothing new and neither is it hidden...in his memoirs he goes further and admits to being part of a secret world cabal!

what more proof does anyone need?

[agapooka]

First of all, I am not out to get anyone. I just like debates and there aren't many people active in the intelligent discussion section. Don't feel victimised.

I never stated that I never looked at your information, by the way. I see no need to comment on it; that's all. I commented on income tax because I was able to offer a perspective that mostly used reasoning.

My problem with your claims is that you claim to have seen documents and read quotations, but unless you've seen those documents as given to you by the officials who produced them and unless you've seen or heard the quotations directly from the ones whom you are quoting, then I have little reason to believe that they cannot be faked. Even if all of those criteria are met, I have only gained an ambiguous idea of probable cause through gathering empirical evidence, but I promised not to get into epistemology.

To me, it's as if you hear a video claim that someone said something and then you go and claim that that someone said something. Even when you showed the allegedly UN document, you sent me to Alex Jones' website. So far, I've been very careful in not giving away where I stand, if anywhere and maybe that frightens you. You don't know whether or not or to which extent I may or may not agree with the content of your claims. Is that unnerving? It shouldn't be.

The reason why I find your methology so irritating, for lack of a better word, is that it evidences to suspended critical faculties. Let me explain what I mean by that, as from your posts, I have reason to believe that that point was overlooked.

"Critical faculties" are what allow an individual to think critically. Actually, it's a pretty rare find in modern society, because most of us are conditioned by authority, education, the media, religion and/or society in general. This "conspiracy information" challenges you to reject your previous weltanschauung (world view). The very act of completely changing your understanding of the world is so powerful that it could essentially reverse the polarity of selective skepticism. What I mean by that is that through one's previous conditioning, one had learned not to think critically when an authority was speaking.

Now that you've challenged authority, you suddenly find yourself trusting whatever caused you to challenge that authority, and now, as long as you don't find any huge inconsistencies (and sometimes even if you do), you'll just take Springmeier's word for it. Now, if he's completely right, then you're just lucky, because you weren't paying enough attention to discern.

Avenger, I respect your courage in going against the flow like this; however, I must say that I find your approach naïve. Yes, the information upon which you have stumbled is awe-inspiring and almost unfathomable and it's common to fall into a naïve belief that one actually understands it.

I've been studying these things for years, too. I stopped because it's just pointless. I am not willing to blindly accept or reject it and I don't have the resources to act other than blindly. All I can do is acknowledge a lot of it as a possibility and gain an understanding of what such possibilities could entail. I have no reason to become obsessive about this nonsense. I call it nonsense, not because of how true or not I believe it to be, but rather because it is irrelevant to the path that I have chosen to follow in my life.

Cheers, mate,

Agapooka

[[KMA]Avenger]

I've been very careful in not giving away where I stand, if anywhere and maybe that frightens you. You don't know whether or not or to which extent I may or may not agree with the content of your claims. Is that unnerving? It shouldn't be.
Agapooka

why would that frighten or unnerve me? mate, if you go through what i went through for the past few years you grow a very thick skin and very few things will frighten or unnerve you...especially other peoples stance on matters.

just for the record, i guessed along time ago that you already knew much of all this...in fact, there's a couple others here who also know but don't talk on the matter...maybe its those that know and don't talk who are frightened and unnerved?!


as for Alex Jones, the way i see it is like this...if the man was delusional or making it up he would have been sued along time ago.

also for the record...i do reference and cross reference and triple check from alternate sources ANY point i hear or document i see regardless of where i hear or see the info.

as i said, i have a 700 meg file with original and declassified British documents proving treason and sedition at the highest levels and continuing on to this day.

[agapooka]

I hate to repeat myself, but heregoes.

I've been studying these things for years, too. I stopped because it's just pointless. I am not willing to blindly accept or reject it and I don't have the resources to act other than blindly. All I can do is acknowledge a lot of it as a possibility and gain an understanding of what such possibilities could entail. I have no reason to become obsessive about this nonsense. I call it nonsense, not because of how true or not I believe it to be, but rather because it is irrelevant to the path that I have chosen to follow in my life.

Oh and as an addendum, I can see many possibilities as to why Alex Jones hasn't been sued and it's irrelevant to how true or false his claims may be. Reasoning that "If he were lying, B would necessarily result and I see that B has not happened, therefore he is telling the truth." is flawed beyond words.

Why would it necessarily be thus? Who would sue him? Do your reasons assume a certain relationship between him and the ones you believe would sue him? What if that assumption is false? Furthermore, even if it is true, what if, regardless of their content, the results of Jones' work is helpful to those you believe should sue him? What if, even if Jones' claims are all false, those who you believe should sue him do not want such public attention? I know I wouldn't, even if I were innocent of the charges.

And I could go on.

Furthermore, you cannot even apply this flawed logic to other speakers. For example, you believe that David Icke is not saying the truth regarding reptilians, yet he has not been sued by those whom he calls reptiles. So, not only is that argument so full of flaws, but you do not even apply it consistently. Again, this isn't an attack on you. I have no qualms with anyone here. If, however, we're meant to exchange ideas, I see it as more constructive if we, in the process of doing so, learn to be consistent and build upon our premises logically. Only then can we even start discussing the actual premises!!!

Agapooka

[SSG EnterTheLion]

I think I have to agree with pookie here. There are innumerable reasons why someone avoids getting sued even when they are wrong. For example you see it everyday in the press. Celebrity A visits Celebrity B for a quick visit, the next day it's all over the news they are dating. A whole side industry based on lies has been created. And for all that only a miniscule percentage of the celebrities targetted actually sue.

Referring to what you are saying KMA, many people have brought out books or videos about this or that conspiracy. It doesn't mean that they are true. Facts can be used to twist something to your point of view. Luckily for them they live in the West. Try their stuff in China and they'll have disappeared before you come to the end of their material. lol

Of course, another reason someone could be ignored is that it gives the assumption that they are a crackpot, so the people/government they are against don't consider them a threat. It's relatively easy to turn even a serious respected person into a crackpot in the public's eyes if you know what buttons to push.

[[KMA]Avenger]

[[KMA]Avenger]

http://infowardocs.org/

[agapooka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwYUqgZVlrs

Avenger, I think you might like the words of that song. It's in Canadian French, though, so I'll have to try to translate it.

[spoiler]I was born in the 70s
in a Québec in the middle of a transition,
Where the fleur-de-lys still
Gave the people hope,
But when I look at it all today
I'm not proud of my country
People stay at home in torpor,
Sitting around, supporting the status quo.

Eating up soap operas
And the stupidest talk-shows,
Letting themselves die on the couch
With a candid look on their faces
In this "kingdom of poutine"
We complete each other in mediocrity
Satisfied with our routines
And pre-fabricated happiness.

"Would you like a scratch ticket?"
The cashier asked me
"Get your two dollars out
Being a millionaire is what it's all about"
On Saturday nights, he dreams
Of getting out of his sh*ithole
Keep hoping, moron
You have one chance in 14 million!

In the casino's parking lot
A man shoots himself in the head,
Having wasted away his money
He didn't really feel like going on
But the government doesn't care
It feeds off gamblers
Exploiting their addiction
A bit like a pusher

If that's Québec today
I'm pulling down my flag
And I'll pi*ss off the idiots who govern us
If you hope to one day have a country
I'd say that things are looking pretty dim
'Coz you're more likely to win the lottery.

For years we were just
A bunch of yes-men
Treading lightly
Whenever the foreman showed up.
Today things have changed a bit
Everyone's unionised
Three, four guys talking around a hole
Watching the new guy doing all the digging.

But we shouldn't be too quick to get happy
We're still just water boys
Serving the elite
And sh*itheads wearing tuxedos
When the CEO of a large corporation
Closes a factory in Gaspésie
He won't ask you your opinion
He'll just fire you without thanking you.

A tramp begs for money in the street
In front a large, glass building
He goes completely unnoticed
By the businessmen and executives
All they care about are profits
And not the earth's problems
"It's not my fault if you're a beggar
What's important is that I prosper"

The prime minister pretends
That he's concerned about the poor,
But we know that he's there to serve
The fortunate and their interests.
The environment, poverty
They aren't priorities
We don't hear much talk about these
Behind those parliament doors.

If that's Québec today
I'm pulling down my flag
And I'll pi*ss off the idiots who govern us
If you're really happy with this country,
Well that, my friend, is your opinion
You must be the president of some company.

When we hear about the north
And what's going on over there
Our forests are put to death
People talk about it
For two weeks and then it's forgotten
History is buried away
And in Vérendrye
They're still mowing down trees

That's the problem with my country
There's nobody that's disgusted
With this false democracy,
Which serves wealthy bankers
In this place populated by the ignorant
We don't have to remember our history
Over here, only licence plates
Still have a bit of memory (a reference to the slogan on Québec licence plates: "Je me souviens" : "I remember")

If that's Québec today
I'm pulling down my flag
And I'll pi*ss off the idiots who govern us
If this is what you call a nation
It's probable that you're stupid enough
And ripe to be a candidate for the next elections...[/spoiler]

[semper]

I think this thread beautifully sums up Avengers title but in a completely different way.

We spend all our time concerned with what everyone else is doing, where everyone else's cars are driving. Perhaps it is wise to have some sense as to their velocity, but it would be wiser to keep a very close eye on where you're going too.

Dwelling in another mans greed - their shadow. Haunting the invisible library of conspiracy theories and stalking celebrities are pretty much the problems we all face and the root of much, though not all and everything.

but hey.. it's humanity. Stop the conspirators and the tyrants today, the next batch will be helping you bury them ready to take their shot tomorrow.

[agapooka]

I would be glad to be part of the next batch, because, let's face it, I KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU ALL.

I was infused with divine knowledge. Follow me! Together we can be free!

[[KMA]Avenger]

humanity puzzles me..it really does, i am more confused, bewildered and dumbfounded by peoples apathy and blazee (is that the correct spelling? ) couldn't careless attitude than i am by a secret cabal trying to control the world and the NWO agenda.
you can understand Greed and corruption from the elites point of view, but what i cant understand or fathom is how easily people put up with all of it, as evidenced by the recent cash for claims corruption that swept every level of parliament which is not limited to parliament but was recently exposed that the American politicians are also at it...

the information is readily available from their own documents and yet, its all a "conspiracy theory", none of it is real even tho its in the open and much of it leaks into the mainstream media. you would think that "the people" would have a murderous hatred targeted at the corrupt politicians and officials and would demand a clean sweep of government by whatever means is necessary...and yet those that steal and lie are STILL in control...what will it take?!?!?!


people should be outraged...even if there is only 1 ounce of truth in all of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[SSG EnterTheLion]

There is only one solution..the formation of a new world empire with Me as your Emperor!

[[KMA]Avenger]

now THAT i can live with

just as long the "M" word is never used

[agapooka]

So *uch for free speech, if we're going to start censoring letters of the alphabet. I'll ad*it, it's not the *ost co**on letter in a sentence, but still, that's no reason to ignore its existence.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i'm not against the letter "M" i'm against a word that starts with "M"...



massing