An Overview of the History of the Ombudsman

[Juliette]

Seems C2 thinks of many mods as biased. Is there anyone you do not see as biased C2?

Can you blame him?
We have not always formed a single front in the past.. and as Clarkey said.. aren't we all biased?

[deni]

Having an opinion on something does not necesserily lead to being biased in your mod actions Universe

[FreeSpirit]

Thats what i thought to but apparantly thats only common sence to some :S

[Juliette]

Having an opinion on something does not necesserily lead to being biased in your mod actions Universe

I agree, that's common sense.

However, no one said it 'necessarily' leads to being biased, just that in a fair few cases (!exceptions on the rule), it has. That is no more or less common sense as your statement.

[renegadze]

The history is all well and good, but it's amazing how people's perspective can be flipped to suit their needs!

The bit about you having to go through Mods and Admins to get things done is wrong...Admins I can maybe understand, the The Ombudsman should have to answer to the Mods (An Ombudsman would never answer to the people he was asked to "investigate")

I never said anything about going through the mods, I said working with the mods and requiring administrative approval. The Ombudsman DOES have to work with the mods. When the Ombudsman refuses to work with the mods it only serves to make his job that much more difficult, likewise with the users.

A true Ombusman should not be seen to be friends with Mods/Admins and neither should they hold a vested interest on any group ingame. They are supposed to be totally impartial with decisions based on facts alone.

A true Ombudsman would not be affiliated with the game in anyway other than the job position it held. This is not possible. The Ombudsmen are free to make friends with the mods and admins just as they are free to make friends with the users. This does not necessarily impact their impartiality at all, but only in the minds of paranoid ninnies.

Eros was quite clearly short tempered, ever thought he was elected because people wanted someone that could rile things up? someone that actually would fight their corner!

It does not matter if that's what they wanted, the Ombudsman is supposed to help solve problems, not cause them. He wasn't just short tempered, but paranoid and delusional.

I do agree Spacey in no way insulted him, but he didn't need to be PC as Ombudman is the title regardless of who does it it's a body of authority and doesn't actually relate to the gender of the person carrying out the role.

Ombudsperson is not something Spacey just made up on the spot, it's the actual gender neutral title used now-a-days.

http://www.answers.com/ombudsperson

ok, you should delet your acount Jack

If you can refrain from spamming this thread, I'll refrain from banning you.

To your first point...I'm sorry but you DID!

During my time as Ombudsman it was abundantly clear to me that I did not have the ability to make any changes to policies or warnings/bannings on my own, that if I felt something needed to be changed that I had to go through the mods and admin first.

To your point about a true Ombudsman not being affiliated with the game in anyway. That is not strictly true...in many organisations this person will be appointed by the organisation

Usually appointed by the organization, but sometimes elected by the constituency, the ombudsman may, for example, investigate constituent complaints relating to the organization and attempt to resolve them, usually through recommendations (binding or not) or mediation. Ombudsmen sometimes identifies organizational roadblocks running counter to constituent interests.

[Jack]

To your first point...I'm sorry but you DID!

During my time as Ombudsman it was abundantly clear to me that I did not have the ability to make any changes to policies or warnings/bannings on my own, that if I felt something needed to be changed that I had to go through the mods and admin first.

Seems you are right.

I miss spoke, shoot me.

To your point about a true Ombudsman not being affiliated with the game in anyway. That is not strictly true...in many organisations this person will be appointed by the organisation

Usually appointed by the organization, but sometimes elected by the constituency, the ombudsman may, for example, investigate constituent complaints relating to the organization and attempt to resolve them, usually through recommendations (binding or not) or mediation. Ombudsmen sometimes identifies organizational roadblocks running counter to constituent interests.

Nowhere does it say that the Ombudsman is supposed to come from inside the organization, to me it seems more like it's saying that the Ombudsman should not be voted in, but that it should be appointed by the admins.

[Spacey]

I do agree Spacey in no way insulted him, but he didn't need to be PC as Ombudman is the title regardless of who does it it's a body of authority and doesn't actually relate to the gender of the person carrying out the role.

Thank you renegadze for your support. It would seem that many people share the same opinion about gender and the role. I am impressed that you chose to use the word gender as opposed to sex. Not strangely what you are describing when you say "is the title regardless of who does it...it's a body of authority and doesn't actually relate to the gender of the person carrying out the role." fits into the description for ombudsperson.

I find it very strange that the whole issue about ombudsman/woman/person/thing/dog/underwear/etc. is still being discussed today. I have 0 hard feelings towards Eros and Killa over this. Quite frankly, the language discussion... it baffles me - I am beside myself.

The links in the spoiler are to universities/colleges, companies, and international organizations. I sincerely hope this ends the debate as to the nature/validity of the word ombudsperson.

[spoiler]

• International Monetary Fund (IMF)
  http://www.imf.org/external/hrd/ombuds.htm
  
• Carnegie Mellon University (USA)
  http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/freeland/ombud.html
  
• University of Toronto (Canada)
  http://www.utoronto.ca/ombudsperson/
  
• Georgia State University (USA)
  http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwomb/ombuds2.htm
  
• McGill University (Canada)
  http://www.mcgill.ca/ombudsperson/
  
• University of Waterloo (Canada)
  http://www.ombudsperson.uwaterloo.ca/index.htm
  
• General Electric (International Company)
  http://www.ge.com/citizenship/performan ... _ombud.jsp
  
• Ryerson University (Canada)
  http://www.ryerson.ca/ombuds/
  
• Dalhousie University (Canada)
  http://ombudsperson.dal.ca/
  
• Algonquin College (Canada)
  http://www.algonquincollege.com/ombudsperson/
  
• Wilfrid Laurier University (Canada)
  http://www.wlu.ca/homepage.php?grp_id=948
  
• University of Western Ontario (Canada)
  http://www.uwo.ca/ombuds/
  
• York University (Canada)
  http://www.yorku.ca/ombuds/

[/spoiler]

You know... I don't remember reading anywhere by Jack that what he wrote in the first post was where 'the buck stops'. Perhaps those with problems with the post can offer suggestions on how to improve it? Semper did this in his post.

How constructive is it to debate the word ombudswhatever or talk about bias in this thread? In doing so, what is happening to the thread itself? I thought the philosophical discussion area was in a different place on the forum (ie. not here).

[Jack]

How constructive is it to debate the word ombudswhatever or talk about bias in this thread? In doing so, what is happening to the thread itself? I thought the philosophical discussion area was in a different place on the forum (ie. not here).

Thank you for reminding me about the spam, I kept forgetting.



Everyone, stop spamming. This topic is about the role of the Ombudsman and the history thereof. If you want to talk about mod bias or Ombudsman bias, or parts of the Ombudsman's history that does not directly impact the role of the Ombudsman(IE. talking about the decision Pianomutt made in the United States vs The Looney Toons case would be spam), take it else where.

[Mordack]

I think "bias" is possibly one of the most overused words on these forums. It's right up there with "noob" and "vulture."

No one has ever devised for detaching someone who does a job from the circumstances of life, from the fact of his involvement (concious or unconcious) with a class, a set of beliefs, a social position or from the mere activity of being a member of a society. These continue to bear on what he does professionally, even though he may do his best to attach himself from his background and the inhibitions and restrictions which they cause. Nonetheless, the influence is always going to be there. None of us, unfortunately, can ever be truly partial.

I consider "bias" on this forum to be a problem when situations like the following occur:

(a) - Multiple people in a thread are committing the same offense, and a moderator punishes one but not the other.

(b) - A moderator ignores a user who is committing a blatant and obvious offense. Possibly because of their affiliation.

I would consider both of these to be adequate grounds for a grievance, and encourage users to point them out accordingly. Most of the time I hear that word, however, it's usage it utterly inapplicable. Half of the time it doesn't even make sense and has been used incorrectly. Noobert is a market moderator, so I'm not even sure how he could possibly be bias. Any posts he makes where he isn't acting as a moderator don't count. All mods were users first, and all mods are allowed to have opinions on current events and in-game affiliations. It's only when these affiiliations affect the way that they do their job that it becomes a problem.

So please think before using the word 'bias' in future.

[renegadze]

I do agree Spacey in no way insulted him, but he didn't need to be PC as Ombudman is the title regardless of who does it it's a body of authority and doesn't actually relate to the gender of the person carrying out the role.

Thank you renegadze for your support. It would seem that many people share the same opinion about gender and the role. I am impressed that you chose to use the word gender as opposed to sex. Not strangely what you are describing when you say "is the title regardless of who does it...it's a body of authority and doesn't actually relate to the gender of the person carrying out the role." fits into the description for ombudsperson.

I find it very strange that the whole issue about ombudsman/woman/person/thing/dog/underwear/etc. is still being discussed today. I have 0 hard feelings towards Eros and Killa over this. Quite frankly, the language discussion... it baffles me - I am beside myself.

The links in the spoiler are to universities/colleges, companies, and international organizations. I sincerely hope this ends the debate as to the nature/validity of the word ombudsperson.

[spoiler]

• International Monetary Fund (IMF)
  http://www.imf.org/external/hrd/ombuds.htm
  
• Carnegie Mellon University (USA)
  http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/freeland/ombud.html
  
• University of Toronto (Canada)
  http://www.utoronto.ca/ombudsperson/
  
• Georgia State University (USA)
  http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwomb/ombuds2.htm
  
• McGill University (Canada)
  http://www.mcgill.ca/ombudsperson/
  
• University of Waterloo (Canada)
  http://www.ombudsperson.uwaterloo.ca/index.htm
  
• General Electric (International Company)
  http://www.ge.com/citizenship/performan ... _ombud.jsp
  
• Ryerson University (Canada)
  http://www.ryerson.ca/ombuds/
  
• Dalhousie University (Canada)
  http://ombudsperson.dal.ca/
  
• Algonquin College (Canada)
  http://www.algonquincollege.com/ombudsperson/
  
• Wilfrid Laurier University (Canada)
  http://www.wlu.ca/homepage.php?grp_id=948
  
• University of Western Ontario (Canada)
  http://www.uwo.ca/ombuds/
  
• York University (Canada)
  http://www.yorku.ca/ombuds/

[/spoiler]

You know... I don't remember reading anywhere by Jack that what he wrote in the first post was where 'the buck stops'. Perhaps those with problems with the post can offer suggestions on how to improve it? Semper did this in his post.

How constructive is it to debate the word ombudswhatever or talk about bias in this thread? In doing so, what is happening to the thread itself? I thought the philosophical discussion area was in a different place on the forum (ie. not here).

The word is used slightly different in the UK......my current RL job fits into one of roles listed on this link

[spoiler]http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/civil_rights/how_to_use_an_ombudsman.htm[/spoiler]

sorry no more spamming I promise

It's rare I find a topic that interests me enough to post more then once lol

An intersting quote from that site

If you need to spend money making a complaint to an ombudsman, for example travel expenses to an ombudsman's office, you may be able to claim this back. You should check with the ombudsman first before you spend any money that you want to claim back.

The next person taking on this role should live in a nice hot sunny place miles away from me

[Noobert]

for Mordack.

Although, I would have loved to see Caesar try and prove it. It would have made my day, but it seems he buggered off. Oh well.

Back to the topic at hand you lot!

[Noobert]

Not this again..*face palms*

[Noobert]

At the very least Noobert, post something constructive or add to what others have said, im enjoying the thread, and would like to keep a discusion going if at all possible.

PS. You've been promoted to King Noobert!

That was the most constructive thing I could have possibly said that wouldn't have been a little bit of a slap in the face.

You will see in the future if the Ombudsman is changed or not, we'll see. Besides, Manetheren hasn't even commented on this yet..

[Noobert]

Not odd at all, as a matter of fact it is funny.

He probably got back late today from his Vacation and is still taking some time to recoup before he has to reply to this garbagio.

[Psi Kiya Trist]

Usually appointed by the organization, but sometimes elected by the constituency, the ombudsman may, for example, investigate constituent complaints relating to the organization and attempt to resolve them, usually through recommendations (binding or not) or mediation. Ombudsmen sometimes identifies organizational roadblocks running counter to constituent interests.

i love that this was posted by a user... in no way does this definition allow for an ombudsman overruling an admin on a matter such as warning or otherwise...

Recommendation, OR mediation.