Question about System Lords in SG1

[semper]

I'd say of the Goa'uld we have encountered.

Ra, Apophis, Yu, Cronus, Sokar, Telchak, Osiris, Seth, Tiamat, Egeria & Hathor.

the Goa'uld were originall lead by Tek or someone

who? o.o

It was Apep first

So Ba'al, Apophis, Tiamat, Ra, Osiris, Balor. We also know Yu was around but will have probably been only a minor Goa'uld at this point at the same time Thoth and Nut were also System Lords. So the council consisted of nine members.

Ba'al wasn't around at this time by his own admission, in Summit. Who's Balor?

In the series it names the holders of the six powerful eyes as those listed. The eyes were originally used by Anubis in the 300 year civil war to dominate the other system lords. The eyes were then split up. This is also admitted in the series though I cannot remember the episode. Ba'al was not around by his own admission at the time of Anubis' initial crime sending Apep (the beloved father of the Goa'uld) mad by the use of the imperfect telchak sarcophagus. He was, by admission of the series at one point in a position to claim ownership of one of the eyes ergo it is logical to presume he was around to receive one at the end of the first 300 year civil war. Even in the context of 22000 years, 300 years is still a fair bit of time for Ba'al to have arisen.

Also I doubt Thoth was a System Lord as he was extremely subservient to Anubis when we saw him..perhaps a powerful Minor Goa'uld.

Thoth was a Goa'uld. Goa'ulds lose their power and join others on occasions. Look at the guy who served Ba'al in one of the SG-1 episodes in season 6, or how Sokar had Apophis - a former system lord as a servant before he re-rose.

Has Nut ever been mentioned

Apparently so!

Sokar was also a system lord just before Ra found earth in 8000 BC. However.. he later tried to overthrow Ra which resulted in failure and was also banished.

Nope, Sokar was the ruler of the System Lords (Serpents Song), and all Goa'uld. An alliance led by Apophis and Ra defeated him. This implies that Ra and Apophis wern't the "1st generation" System Lords.

Not at all.. all it implies is that Sokar, at some stage took power over the System Lords like he was about to do in Serpent Song and Ra and Apophis fought back and beat him.. much in the same way Ra and Anubis were first second GE generation Goa'uld but Ra took power from Anubis.

It's all in my history... in the thread stated. I got my sources from the gateworld, the series, the SG wiki and actual earth history.

[System Lord Nephthys]

I also wonder for Sokar case with Cronus, but remember Heruur and Ra. Ra wasn't killed by his son!

This is trrue...however Heru'ur was never above Ra in rank or power

Also:
http://webmessenger.msn.com/

That's what I found, web messenger, don't know if it will work
Seen many people from sgw/sgaw using it because of msn live/wlm program problems.

I'll try that out!

[System Lord Nephthys]

It was Apep first

Who is Apep??? I don't recall any episode refering to this Goa'uld...indeed isn't Apep just an alternative name for Apophis...?

In the series it names the holders of the six powerful eyes as those listed. The eyes were originally used by Anubis in the 300 year civil war to dominate the other system lords. The eyes were then split up. This is also admitted in the series though I cannot remember the episode. Ba'al was not around by his own admission at the time of Anubis' initial crime sending Apep (the beloved father of the Goa'uld) mad by the use of the imperfect telchak sarcophagus. He was, by admission of the series at one point in a position to claim ownership of one of the eyes ergo it is logical to presume he was around to receive one at the end of the first 300 year civil war. Even in the context of 22000 years, 300 years is still a fair bit of time for Ba'al to have arisen.

Civil war? again where is any of this mentioned? The crime of Anubis was never revealed..and the goa'uld are hardly the kind of race to see THAT as an unmentionable crime...they do it all the time.

Thoth was a Goa'uld. Goa'ulds lose their power and join others on occasions. Look at the guy who served Ba'al in one of the SG-1 episodes in season 6, or how Sokar had Apophis - a former system lord as a servant before he re-rose.

Apophis was never a servant of Sokar, he wanted an audience to become one to kill Sokar, but I suspect that Sokar (and other goa'uld) would enver ahve permitted him a position of power knowing how decietful goa'uld are...this of course arguably doesn't apply to Thoth and ANubis though as Anubis was ina unique position of not being able to be killed by THoth...

Has Nut ever been mentioned

Apparently so!

Oh yea my bad...but still only in passing by vala..and not comenting on her power...jsut that she had loadsa husbands lmao.

Not at all.. all it implies is that Sokar, at some stage took power over the System Lords like he was about to do in Serpent Song and Ra and Apophis fought back and beat him.. much in the same way Ra and Anubis were first second GE generation Goa'uld but Ra took power from Anubis.

Nope, thats what it states. But regardless your wright..we shouldn't deal with vague implications.

It's all in my history... in the thread stated. I got my sources from the gateworld, the series, the SG wiki and actual earth history.

Hmm, maybe this is where confusions are arising then, my only source is the series, as it doesn't really fit with a lot of Earth history..I don't even want to think about how the tiemframe is all out of whack. I mean for a starter Earth should only have been ruled by a single Goa'uld...The Goa'uld do not 'share' planets, so why are there so many of them having significant presences there.

[semper]

It was Apep first

Who is Apep??? I don't recall any episode refering to this Goa'uld...indeed isn't Apep just an alternative name for Apophis...?

In the series it names the holders of the six powerful eyes as those listed. The eyes were originally used by Anubis in the 300 year civil war to dominate the other system lords. The eyes were then split up. This is also admitted in the series though I cannot remember the episode. Ba'al was not around by his own admission at the time of Anubis' initial crime sending Apep (the beloved father of the Goa'uld) mad by the use of the imperfect telchak sarcophagus. He was, by admission of the series at one point in a position to claim ownership of one of the eyes ergo it is logical to presume he was around to receive one at the end of the first 300 year civil war. Even in the context of 22000 years, 300 years is still a fair bit of time for Ba'al to have arisen.

Civil war? again where is any of this mentioned? The crime of Anubis was never revealed..and the goa'uld are hardly the kind of race to see THAT as an unmentionable crime...they do it all the time.

Thoth was a Goa'uld. Goa'ulds lose their power and join others on occasions. Look at the guy who served Ba'al in one of the SG-1 episodes in season 6, or how Sokar had Apophis - a former system lord as a servant before he re-rose.

Apophis was never a servant of Sokar, he wanted an audience to become one to kill Sokar, but I suspect that Sokar (and other goa'uld) would enver ahve permitted him a position of power knowing how decietful goa'uld are...this of course arguably doesn't apply to Thoth and ANubis though as Anubis was ina unique position of not being able to be killed by THoth...

Has Nut ever been mentioned

Apparently so!

Oh yea my bad...but still only in passing by vala..and not comenting on her power...jsut that she had loadsa husbands lmao.

Not at all.. all it implies is that Sokar, at some stage took power over the System Lords like he was about to do in Serpent Song and Ra and Apophis fought back and beat him.. much in the same way Ra and Anubis were first second GE generation Goa'uld but Ra took power from Anubis.

Nope, thats what it states. But regardless your wright..we shouldn't deal with vague implications.

It's all in my history... in the thread stated. I got my sources from the gateworld, the series, the SG wiki and actual earth history.

Hmm, maybe this is where confusions are arising then, my only source is the series, as it doesn't really fit with a lot of Earth history..I don't even want to think about how the tiemframe is all out of whack. I mean for a starter Earth should only have been ruled by a single Goa'uld...The Goa'uld do not 'share' planets, so why are there so many of them having significant presences there.

Aye.. read the history I wrote up in the information thread. I did it for all the races so far other than the Tauri (they're in their respective sections) using the SG wiki, the gateworld wiki and the series. I only rarely used earth history but I did use it. They're generally all sourced very well on the SG wiki and gateworld uses the series directly a long with things from the writers.

In general with the point of Sokar.. like I said. He could have arisen and taken power, ruling the system lords until Ra and Apophis fought back. Apophis was in the same position in the series until the destruction of Vorash' sun and his soon to follow final demise.

As for the lower level Goa'uld obeying the System Lords.. it happens all the time. Although it is a slightly different situation.. Apophis and Sokar illustrates why it may occur.. the timing may just not be immediately available. For beings that live tens of thousands of year.. I am sure Thoth and others might not have been foolish in their re-ascension to power with a fool hardy gamble. At the same time.. you are also right with Anubis. He was unique and demonstrated that he was more than capable of subduing other system lords even if they were unaware of his ascension.. look at how Zipacna, Osiris, Ba'al, Tanith and Thoth followed his lead.

The civil war is mentioned on the wiki as part of the original crimes Anubis committed and his actions against Apep were meant to represent loyalty and the more noble begginings of the Goa'uld. We've seen as demonstrated by Goa'uld Queens (Amonette) and offspring (klorel) that even Goa'uld can respect a hierarchy and have some measure of feeling for their parents... it's not illogical to assume that Ra and the others wanted vengeance for Anubis killing and manipulating their father for his own ends.

Apep is another name for Apophis.. but according to the Wiki it is in SG a different Goa'uld.

[System Lord Nephthys]

Aye.. read the history I wrote up in the information thread. I did it for all the races so far other than the Tauri (they're in their respective sections) using the SG wiki, the gateworld wiki and the series. I only rarely used earth history but I did use it. They're generally all sourced very well on the SG wiki and gateworld uses the series directly a long with things from the writers.

Ok, but what is their source, as having seen every SG1 episode none of these events ahve ever been mentioned o.o

In general with the point of Sokar.. like I said. He could have arisen and taken power, ruling the system lords until Ra and Apophis fought back. Apophis was in the same position in the series until the destruction of Vorash' sun and his soon to follow final demise.

Hmm he could have, but the way it was said in the show implied that he predated Ra...after all it could have been worded that he overthrew Ra for a brief period or any numerous ways. But he was portrayed as an Ancient Goa'uld pre-dating Ra's rule.

As for the lower level Goa'uld obeying the System Lords.. it happens all the time. Although it is a slightly different situation.. Apophis and Sokar illustrates why it may occur.. the timing may just not be immediately available. For beings that live tens of thousands of year.. I am sure Thoth and others might not have been foolish in their re-ascension to power with a fool hardy gamble. At the same time.. you are also right with Anubis. He was unique and demonstrated that he was more than capable of subduing other system lords even if they were unaware of his ascension.. look at how Zipacna, Osiris, Ba'al, Tanith and Thoth followed his lead.

Fair enough.

The civil war is mentioned on the wiki as part of the original crimes Anubis committed and his actions against Apep were meant to represent loyalty and the more noble begginings of the Goa'uld. We've seen as demonstrated by Goa'uld Queens (Amonette) and offspring (klorel) that even Goa'uld can respect a hierarchy and have some measure of feeling for their parents... it's not illogical to assume that Ra and the others wanted vengeance for Anubis killing and manipulating their father for his own ends.

Respect yes..but only out of fear of their own destruction/pursuit of power...Not out of compassion or a sense of loyalty.

[Maha Vishnu]

Remember, Earth was a gold mine for slaves. Many goauld wanted it and was invaded by many goauld.

Abydos was part of Egypt, yet on another planet.

The stories of myth from Egypt can be spawn from talks by slaves, eleborating truths.

The TV series only skimmed the surface. The rest have been postulated by using Earth myths and how the Goauld could of be responsible for it.

Both Sempers and my part fit together nicely to put us where we are now.

[thaltek]

thalchak=thaltek

[System Lord Nephthys]

Remember, Earth was a gold mine for slaves. Many goauld wanted it and was invaded by many goauld.

Abydos was part of Egypt, yet on another planet.

The stories of myth from Egypt can be spawn from talks by slaves, eleborating truths.

The TV series only skimmed the surface. The rest have been postulated by using Earth myths and how the Goauld could of be responsible for it.

Both Sempers and my part fit together nicely to put us where we are now.

I guess so, but there is also a lot which Teal'c told us about the Goa'ulds past, especially in the early seasons.

Yes they fit together, but some of it isn't mentioned in the slightest in the series...hense the confusion - I thought Apophis was looking for a canonical answer, not the 'history' that has been adopted here. My mistake sorry

[Legendary Apophis]

Remember, Earth was a gold mine for slaves. Many goauld wanted it and was invaded by many goauld.

Abydos was part of Egypt, yet on another planet.

The stories of myth from Egypt can be spawn from talks by slaves, eleborating truths.

The TV series only skimmed the surface. The rest have been postulated by using Earth myths and how the Goauld could of be responsible for it.

Both Sempers and my part fit together nicely to put us where we are now.

I guess so, but there is also a lot which Teal'c told us about the Goa'ulds past, especially in the early seasons.

Yes they fit together, but some of it isn't mentioned in the slightest in the series...hense the confusion - I thought Apophis was looking for a canonical answer, not the 'history' that has been adopted here. My mistake sorry

Well, the more I know the better!
I looked for names, but didn't mind some history around it. And now I sort of got both!




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Looks like Goa'uld Empire site proposes a detailed history of the Goa'ulds.

http://goauldempire.synthasite.com/hist ... goauld.php