Legalize Marijuana - Yay or Nay

[lone dragon]

for all those who need to learn some facts cough Sandman Cough and for all those simply interested in a real Exposé all about Marijuana/Cannabis.
this film comes from a completely neutral stand point, so is well worth watching and from what i have seen, it is NOT biased either For or Against.

http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=1004

Are you freakin' serious? Every film throughout the entire history of expression has been made to satisfy an agenda. This applies to "documentaries" most of all. Anyone who points to these kinds of films and claims that they are neutral needs to stop and think "who made it, and why?". Furthermore, anyone who thinks these films "only portray the facts the way they are" needs to remember that ALL knowledge is subjective.

i'm not a fool, so please don't take me for one.

watch the film or not, i don't really care.


PS. not trying to be rude or anything.

I did not say you were a fool.

I was just pointing out that, all too often, people are willing to put forward opinions and agendas as clear-cut facts.

i would never make such a mistake

No-one is prefect but this evidence is too subjective for my liking, I don't think GG is attacking you, but this is one that doesn't help you proving your case.

[~[ Greased Gerbil ]~]

I am assuming that you are referring to the film K posted on the previous page. That, for me, is one of those flashpoints that gets me going. I don't like films being used as evidence. Films that come with those tags of "uncovering the truth" always reek of bias to me.

Before you accuse me of the opposing bias, remember I am a supporter of recreational marijuana use. I would likely side somewhat with the conclusions in the film. I just don't think such a genre can really pass as valid evidence; at least not without close scrutiny.

[[KMA]Avenger]

for those that don't know, what i like to do while watching a film which may (or may not) contain useful information is to keep a pen and pad handy and write down key points and see if i can independently verify or dismiss the point, and see if i can discover the truth...

if i post a film its because i have researched the info...

believe me, the last thing i want to do, is post a load of waffle.

[Mister Sandman]

[spoiler]

Seening as the minority wants the legalisation of weed....
again, no to legalisation.

a lack of education and allot of propaganda has everything to do with that

Why encourage irresponsible behaviour?

who is "encouraging irresponsible behaviour"?

Let us look at this logically. If Marijuana was legalised, then therefore, the government, and thus, presumably the majority of a populous would be subjected in saying "Smoking Marijuana is fine" overall, silently encouraging it. Closest example i can give is tobacco smoking, by looking at the legislation of smoking it is evident that in a generation or two the number of smokers will sky rocket. Why? Becuase it has become socially acceptable.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Meaning, there is only a minority of people wanting the legalising Marijuana. [this thread cannot be used as a estimation, for various of obvious reasons]

nobody's needs should be neglected regardless of numbers (i use this as an example, so i don't want anyone getting all worked up now), the founding fathers of America understood that no government or body has the right to trample on anyone's freedoms or rights which is why the war of independence was fought, and why they set up a republic instead of a democracy.


Let us conclude that smoking Marijuana is not a need. For obvious reasons, everyone can live a better life without it. Although some people want or 'need' Marijuana it is socially damning.

Using your example, that nobodies needs should be neglected regardless of numbers.... what if people need to have human sacrifices or drink human blood or less extreme example, need justice. It is evident that the American courts favour the rich, and therefore, there is no justice in the poorer communities. This again, can be noted in the general social and health justice that America cannot provide.

In addition,
People seem to forget, Marijuana gets you high. No matter how you spin this.

well, what would be the point of smoking it if it doesn't get you high? sky divers and thrill seekers alike do what they do for the adrenalin rush and subsequent "high"...should they be outcast?

There is no point if it doesnt get you high. Therefore, it nullifies your whole perception of legalising it.However, that is a tangent of logical progression of thought. Main point to be made, and it probablly has been said before:

Lone Dragon
""illusory or euphoric better term, I just dont see how you can state smoking which is not "natural" to the body is good for you its like sucking up smoke where is the difference and can you prove it and to what I say is credible?""

Lets look at cigarettes in comparison with Marijuana . People who smoke cigarettes, are not high,

WRONG, i've smoked weed in the past and i am a cigarette smoker, and i can tell you that when someone takes their 1st puff on a cigarette, it gives you MUCH more of a buzz (as well as making you feel sick) than your 1st puff on a joint.

Refer to illusory or euphoric term.

and thus, not a hazard to safety to themselves, and others. Where as, a person on Marijuana, such with someone being drunk, can be unpredictable, and can be a safety issue.

what if someone has a heart attack while driving on a busy road in the middle of the day with passengers on board and pedestrians and other cars all over the place-because of a 30 year smoking habit...are they only a danger to themselves???

Long term, not in the short term.

the vast majority of people who smoke Marijuana, do so for pleasure and relaxation. unlike alcohol, it doesn't totally change ones personality, i have friends who used to smoke weed and we would all chill out together, but same friends when drunk would become anti-social to the point they were not the same people.

Everyone has different reactions to alcohol. And i would assume a vast majority of people would drink just to relax...


most of your replies are stemming from a lack of real world experience. i suggest you study and get some first hand experience before making such absolute statements.

rely more on first hand knowledge/experience when making your posts, rather than the conclusions you have drawn from debatable sources (IE, the establishment) and religious zealousy.

Debatable sources you say? Even your first hand experience is debatable.

[/spoiler]

a huge number of people smoke weed, in the uk at least. say if something you liked to do was a minority activity that annoyed others. would it be right to deny you your personal freedom to do as you wish (as long as it doesnt measurably affect others). of course not.
i dont think you realise how widespread cannabis use is in the uk (the usa and other developed countries as well)

[color=#FFFF00]Define huge number. It is noteable, that the widespread cannabis users are often lower class. Same with alcohol abuse. Used primary for escapism.

cigarettes are physically and mentally addictive. they are more dangerous in my opinion.This is not the point of any debate.
stoners are mostly a danger to themselves, not others. the vast majority of people who smoke weed chill out afterwards. they rarely go on a rampage. compare that to the actions of those under influence of alcohol. . .
and yes pot heads can be unpredictable, but they are often lazy.

you dont get suddenly high of one puff. maybe you do (*cough lightweight cough)* but most dont.It is possible, and probable to get high off one puff, or one joint. There is alot of variables to consider. However, just like one punch can kill, one puffcan get you high
who drinks one drink? heard of binge drinking? thats way more destructive in way more ways than weed. Heard of binge smoking? And what is this do to with the original points? Nothing.
i dont speed smoke 10 spliffs in a minute where as shots are popular and the norm for many.
you drink for pleasure? say you have 4 beers at a barbeque. you will feel an effect. and if i smoke a zoot with some pals for pleasure, ill feel an effect.I will not feel any effect if have 4 beers at all. haha. I drink because i like the taste, and it is easier to manage.

i can say with certainty that hardcore criminals often deal and smoke weed in the uk. they make lots of money and get high for free.and you should know my stance on punishments of those crimes.[/color]

Will reply to all your ill-conceived arguments soon

For now, camping.

lmao


all i can say to everyone's post is...god forbid (no, i haven't suddenly turned religious) we might do something for the sake of pleasure simply because the naysayers don't approve!

at the end of the day, and unless i missed the day we suddenly went from a free society (whatever the hell that means these days?!) to a dictatorship?! You of all people should know that there is no freedom without restrictions. if i choose to smoke weed, NOBODY on this planet has ANY right to deny me so long as i harm nobody else...Right, or sense? Because anyone who had a heart and some sense would tell you, and deny you of your drug habits

i'd like to see someone argue against that!



i'm sure there are enough naysayers who would deny me my basic human rights, to you i say...Heil Hitler

I might as well say the supports of legalisation of Marijuana are Nazis Because the Hitler comment is highly uncalled for.

Will reply to all your ill-conceived arguments soon

For now, camping.

I'm starting to think that you are really a closet pot head and that your just doing all this because you think its funny.

No Comment

[[KMA]Avenger]

i just don't have any inclination of answering each and every one of your counter points...

suffice to say, that we are not talking about some "doomsday culture", drinking blood?! PLEASE, that's nowhere near the same level as just having a relaxing joint....for you it might be, but not the rest of us....

btw, is that a red moustache you have?

[Alex]

Sandman, your post was amazingly huge so I'm not gonna quote it, just gonna respond to a few points that stood out to me:

First off, you can't compare the use of marijuana to the sacrificing of human lives to perform a "ritual". You can try to debate that smoking is killing you and that as such it is the sacrificing of human lives over a longer period of time however that does not compare to killing people or animals and then drinking their blood.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of marijuana users use it to relax. You can claim that they do it to escape reality and live a different life and ignore their problems, but it can then be argued that in those situations (which is less often the reason) could it not be argued that the person being lazy or "avoiding life" is just doing so because of their personality? In my experience, (which is relative based on where I live and who I know) being high does not make you avoid life or make you incapable of performing your daily routine.

Sandman, everyone's first hand experience is debatable.... I believe that what [KMA]Avenger was saying was that regardless of what you read, see on T.V. until you have experienced it in real life your going on the info of the anti drug adds, which lets face it are unbelievably biased to the extent that image projected in the adds are unreal.

Sandman, simply claiming that the majority of marijuana smokers are from lower classes is ignorance at its best... Just because it may be more publicized in those areas doesn't mean that those are the areas in which it is the most. Secondly claiming marijuana is used as "escapism" could I not flip that on you and say that you are on SGW to escape real life? Maybe you can't handle real life so you come on SGW? While in some cases this may be true, for the majority it is not. Thus claiming such is not only false, but ignorant.

Is it possible to get "high" off one puff from a joint? Sure, but not to the extent that you are arguing. I'd even go so far as to say that usually the first hit of whatever your smoking doesn't get you high. You just feel a little more calm (once again you can't really comment on that until you've experienced it).

Secondly, to everyone jumping on [KMA]Avenger, I think that his comment in regards to Hitler was not him calling anyone Hitler, instead he was using it as a reference to another situation in which human rights were ignored.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Secondly, to everyone jumping on [KMA]Avenger, I think that his comment in regards to Hitler was not him calling anyone Hitler, instead he was using it as a reference to another situation in which human rights were ignored.

[lordernest]

To Alex

[Kit-Fox]

I did warn y'all on 'debating' with religious nuts. It never ends up well as they always ignore the evidence right at the ends of their noses and instead insist that the earth is flat just as 'god' told them it was

[agapooka]

The Earth is flat and Hell is a frying pan...

And you are the salt of the Earth..

Essentially, I'm just saying that the world is an omelette and God is hungry.

srsly kthx

[Mister Sandman]

Sandman, your post was amazingly huge so I'm not gonna quote it, just gonna respond to a few points that stood out to me:

First off, you can't compare the use of marijuana to the sacrificing of human lives to perform a "ritual". You can try to debate that smoking is killing you and that as such it is the sacrificing of human lives over a longer period of time however that does not compare to killing people or animals and then drinking their blood.

Frist off, I can compare the use of marijuana to the sacrificing of human lives to preform a satanic ritual if I want. Why? Because both are wants or you would say needs of a minority.

You missed the whole point.



I'm pretty sure the vast majority of marijuana users use it to relax. You can claim that they do it to escape reality and live a different life and ignore their problems, but it can then be argued that in those situations (which is less often the reason) could it not be argued that the person being lazy or "avoiding life" is just doing so because of their personality? In my experience, (which is relative based on where I live and who I know) being high does not make you avoid life or make you incapable of performing your daily routine.

Relaxation and escapism could be considered the same in alot of cases. It 'helps' you relax. Let us look at this, if you need Marijuana to 'help' you relax, it has became escapism.

We can argue your case with ecstasy or other 'harder' drugs.

And now, you questioned the notion of human behaviour or human nature.... Is it human nature leading us towards inhaling Marijuana or is it human behaviour? I say, human behaviour, for it is not programmed into the human psyche. With that deduction, it can be concluded that Marijuana is not necessary, rather, it has been noted, quite detrimental to humans. As previously discussed in noting it may cause exacerbated conditions of mental illness among alot of social, economic, and health detriments.

Sandman, everyone's first hand experience is debatable.... I believe that what [KMA]Avenger was saying was that regardless of what you read, see on T.V. until you have experienced it in real life your going on the info of the anti drug adds, which lets face it are unbelievably biased to the extent that image projected in the adds are unreal.

Funny thing is, Australia, doesn't have any real anti drug ads. Mainly, I know from experience in seeing friends taking Marijuana and how bad that is, plus, purely objective medial facts provided in many texts books laying about in around the house. And, Internet research and teachings of others who have genuine experience.


Sandman, simply claiming that the majority of marijuana smokers are from lower classes is ignorance at its best... Just because it may be more publicized in those areas doesn't mean that those are the areas in which it is the most. If we take the statistics, ignorance is not the term that would be used. Rather, there is a corelation, and you just noted that is more 'socially acceptable' therefore, logically, saying the majority of Marijuana smokers are of lower class, is not outrageous statement. At best it is politically incorrect.


Secondly claiming marijuana is used as "escapism" could I not flip that on you and say that you are on SGW to escape real life? Maybe you can't handle real life so you come on SGW? While in some cases this may be true, for the majority it is not. Thus claiming such is not only false, but ignorant.

Nope. SGW is not escapism for me. However, for others one cannot comment. You, cannot put a number or rather, any sort of figure on this. Why? because, in contrasting SGW with Marijuana, one can note that Marijuana is a mind altering drug which has "illusory or euphoric" sensations. Although, SGW can have that affect on some run down person. Marijuana can have that affect on anyone.



Is it possible to get "high" off one puff from a joint? Sure, but not to the extent that you are arguing. I'd even go so far as to say that usually the first hit of whatever your smoking doesn't get you high. You just feel a little more calm (once again you can't really comment on that until you've experienced it).

One can comment if one has seen it. It doesnt matter. You can get high off a joint. You confirmed it.

Secondly, to everyone jumping on [KMA]Avenger, I think that his comment in regards to Hitler was not him calling anyone Hitler, instead he was using it as a reference to another situation in which human rights were ignored.

Human rights are subjective and highly debatable. Under the current 'human right' ideals set by the united nations. There is no mention of having the 'right' to smoke Marijuana

I did warn y'all on 'debating' with religious nuts. It never ends up well as they always ignore the evidence right at the ends of their noses and instead insist that the earth is flat just as 'god' told them it was

A few holes in that argument. One, you have claimed that you have 'evidence' which purely there no evidence to suffice the justification of having marijuana legalised.

Secondly, God, my God atleast, who is the one and only God, never said it via the word that the earth was flat. If you have any logic, and open mind, and read the Bible, then you would know the bible does not state the world is flat.

[[KMA]Avenger]

does this remind anyone of anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq87S5eX ... o_response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m6lXi0E ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2hffM19 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k891-J-G ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhQD0xP9 ... re=related


Mr Sandman, i think i have found some of your kindred spirits (so to speak), you should feel right at home with these erm...guys

[Mister Sandman]

... Only in America

however, that is off topic.

[[KMA]Avenger]

is it, is it really??

hmmm, let me about that for a minute....


nope, its defo on topic and by the looks of it, Christian/religious stupidity is NOT strictly an American illness...unless your claiming otherwise?

[lone dragon]

is it, is it really??

hmmm, let me about that for a minute....


nope, its defo on topic and by the looks of it, Christian/religious stupidity is NOT strictly an American illness...unless your claiming otherwise?

No its not specifically there, but everything cant be a conspiracy either..