here's 1 for all the EU lovers!

[[KMA]Avenger]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/eu-plans-ma ... avior.html



http://infowars.net/articles/september2 ... ameras.htm




ONLY intelligent discussion please

[Brdavs]

Alas, the US/UK CCTV mania seems to be making its way onto the continent... But I have no phear, it`ll get overturned in parliament. Afterall, p2p pirates have representation now.

[dark lord tacoma]

its only a problem if your doing somthing wrong anyway so whats the problem ?

[Brdavs]

its only a problem if your doing somthing wrong anyway so whats the problem ?

That line of though ain`t cool my friend.

[[KMA]Avenger]

its only a problem if your doing somthing wrong anyway so whats the problem ?

i agree with brdavs, that kind of thinking is NOT cool at all

i'm a law abiding family man whose 3 sons get regular praise at school for they're good behaviour, good manors, excellent conduct and so on, so by your standard of thinking, i also have nothing to fear...SO, why the hell should "we" put up with even more Govt intrusion into our lives?

i know what your thinking, this isnt for the law abiding and those that have nothing to fear, its for the criminals, and yet, according to official sources, cameras DO NOT help in solving or detering crime...so i have to ask the question...

if those cameras are NOT there for you, me and the law abiding, and they dont deter criminality, what are they there for????

[dark lord tacoma]

im no crime expurt im just a honest farmer but surely if a crime is comited in front of a camera the imige is captured (can't se any floors in my argument yet) fair enough it wont stop the crime at the time but hypertheticaly these imiges can or could be used in finding the crimanals and then used again as concrete evidence in court as proof of the criminals guilt .

equaly if the camera dosent see the crime comited it may see people who are in the area at the time of whic will narrow possable suspects down and maybee pravide witnesses

i'm a law abiding family man whose 3 sons get regular praise at school for they're good behaviour, good manors, excellent conduct and so on, so by your standard of thinking, i also have nothing to fear...SO, why the hell should "we" put up with even more Govt intrusion into our lives?

what makes you think the goverment would be intrested in suvaying your A* familly


sorry bout the spelling mistakes and poor use of punctuation

[Kit-Fox]

Sorry Tacoma but;

CCTV is indiscriminate, it captures everything. By your own example of saying it will help narrow suspects down, great wonderful and fine until your one of those suspects and are arrested in a dawn raid on your house by armed police. Of course all your friends and neighbours might worry about the good old 'no smoke without fire' saying and of course even if your brought in as a suspect and later cleared by the police your arrest/interview appears on all CRB/ISA checks, which will prevent you from getting a job at schools/hospitals/charities and anyone else considered a vulnerable person.

btw the definition of a vulnerable person by the law (at least for adults, is rather wide) is as follows

'any person over the age of 18 who is recieving treatment on a regular basis'

treatment includes such things as taking aspirin you got over the counter.

[[KMA]Avenger]

im no crime expurt im just a honest farmer but surely if a crime is comited in front of a camera the imige is captured (can't se any floors in my argument yet) fair enough it wont stop the crime at the time but hypertheticaly these imiges can or could be used in finding the crimanals and then used again as concrete evidence in court as proof of the criminals guilt .

equaly if the camera dosent see the crime comited it may see people who are in the area at the time of whic will narrow possable suspects down and maybee pravide witnesses

and yet, by the Govts very admission, they dont help catch criminals, not because of any 1 reason, but there are a host of reasons such as poor lighting, broken camera, poor footage, nobody willing to testify and last but by no means least, the criminals were wearing dark hoodies.

i'm a law abiding family man whose 3 sons get regular praise at school for they're good behaviour, good manors, excellent conduct and so on, so by your standard of thinking, i also have nothing to fear...SO, why the hell should "we" put up with even more Govt intrusion into our lives?

what makes you think the goverment would be intrested in suvaying your A* familly

because if you look at the past 30 years especially, the family unit (not just mine, i used mine as an example) has been under attack left, right and centre, while criminals seem to be getting all the breaks and opportunities, the hard working people of the UK have been trampled on by their Govt time and time and time and time again...the sad part is...we come back and like Oliver Twist, we ask for more of the same

sorry bout the spelling mistakes and poor use of punctuation

my spelling is also REALLY bad (grammar not much better than my spelling). do what i do, if you have FireFox you can download a spell checker which underlines all misspelled words with a red line and when right click on the misspelled word you will get a list of correct spellings to choose from

[Legendary Apophis]

I knew that cameras were coming.
Did it change my opinion about EU? Of course not.
It's not necessarly going to be like "Enemy of the State"..

[dark lord tacoma]

my spelling is also REALLY bad (grammar not much better than my spelling). do what i do, if you have FireFox you can download a spell checker which underlines all misspelled words with a red line and when right click on the misspelled word you will get a list of correct spellings to choose from

thnx will do

[[KMA]Avenger]

I knew that cameras were coming.

i didn't, not surprising really since i do not get my news from the lying mainstream.

Did it change my opinion about EU? Of course not.

that goes without saying mate.

It's not necessarly going to be like "Enemy of the State"..

nope, wont be like enemy of the state, will be MUCH worse.

my spelling is also REALLY bad (grammar not much better than my spelling). do what i do, if you have FireFox you can download a spell checker which underlines all misspelled words with a red line and when right click on the misspelled word you will get a list of correct spellings to choose from

thnx will do

no problem

[Legendary Apophis]

I knew that cameras were coming.

i didn't, not surprising really since i do not get my news from the lying mainstream.

Well there's already cameras in France for some years already...

Did it change my opinion about EU? Of course not.

that goes without saying mate.

"The lesser of two evils"...even though EU I cannot consider as evil (but it isn't perfect, thus first saying), I much prefer EU than "Europe of nation[alism]s" to remain!

It's not necessarly going to be like "Enemy of the State"..

nope, wont be like enemy of the state, will be MUCH worse.

I'm curious how it could be "much worse" than this movie considering it was worst case scenario there!

[Kit-Fox]

No Pops, that film wasnt the worst case scenario. The current level of fear/mistrust and downright paranoia present in UK society is already worse than that film and in that film those effects are limited to a couple of the films characters, not the whole populace.

You cannot observe something without changing what you are observing.

Oh and just take a look a lil closer too, interviews with police/social services etc all show up on CRB/ISA checks even if the allegations that caused the interview are proven to be false/malicious. Such things stop you from getting any public facing job, say at a shop or employment in the civial service or at the NHS or at schools. You whole life can be ruined by a few words from one person who may or may not have a vendetta against you (which the 'authoritites' wont consider or care about)

[Mordack]

I'm opposed to this, but only on the basis of how ineffective CCTV is as a method of solving and preventing criminal behaviour. If you look into the figures, then the number of cases where CCTV footage has been used to gain a conviction is worryingly small. As the second article you linked to says "police do not have the time or the man power to study hours of CCTV footage." Our police force is already overworked in terms of red tape and bureaucracy, and that's without even going into the colossal amount of money which these additional cameras would take to build and maintain. A bad, bad idea.

[dark lord tacoma]

the cctv footage in this clip helped to prove the guilt of two thugs
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... dress.html

cameras not being operational is a different matter that is wrong but working cameras are afective