general discussion about national ID cards.

[[KMA]Avenger]

is a national ID card a good idea, are they needed??

would you accept a national ID card, if so why??

on a conspiracy note, i know why "they" want them so my position is, HELL NO! i have a passport and drivers licence and both have my photo on them, i have my birth certificate and have scores of other forms of accepted ID's (IE, utility bills and so forth) .
so, on a non-conspiracy note, i think i can safely establish my identity to any official body and the courts if needs be, 1 more form of ID is neither here nor there and doesn't help me in ANYway shape or form. so in my eyes, its a tremendous waste of money and resources which could be put to MUCH better use, and so no, i dont think they are needed or a good idea and therefore i would sooner go to prison than accept an ID card...in fact, i find the whole idea offensive and disgusting!


let the discussions begin

[Ashu]

I do not agree with them in any possible way and consider them a gross violation of our right!

[Juliette]

Well.. if it means I don't have to carry around the bucketload of other papers anymore, I'd gladly trade that in for a plastic card, or a chip, or whatever it takes.
My handbag is full enough as it is, so if the National ID means I don't need to carry the rest, then I think it's a great idea. Also, taking the future generations into account -crazy, I know- it's very much more ecologically proper to have a chip/card instead of the load of paperwork.
I'm saying that the card replaces the current ID stuff, university card, bank card, drivers licence, the works. That would be good. Otherwise it's just another load of crap.


So yeah, do me one.

(But I agree, that whole "We know what you did where, when, how and with whom last summer and we have the CCTV-footage to prove it"-thing, scares the living grace out of me.)

[Legendary Apophis]

National ID card, why not, I suppose. However, hell no to anything being implemented into my body.

What do you mean by national ID card btw? In France we got one for over 50 years...if you mean photo, first name and last name, signature, place & date of birth etc...all into one plastified card.

I am confused...how do you people show your identity to police if you don't have such thing?

As long as it's seperated from my body (no chip!!) and has no link with my credit card...why not!

[Juliette]

National ID card, why not, I suppose. However, hell no to anything being implemented into my body.

What do you mean by national ID card btw? In France we got one for over 50 years...if you mean photo, first name and last name, signature, place & date of birth etc...

I am confused...how do you people show your identity to police if you don't have such thing?

Drivers licence is a valid identification in most European countries.

[Legendary Apophis]

Indeed Jo...I meant, for people not having driver licence (or having it), there's national cards like this, isn't it?:
[spoiler]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Cin.jpg/800px-Cin.jpg[/spoiler]
France
[spoiler]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/MustermannPA.jpg[/spoiler]
Germany
[spoiler]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Carta_identita_italiana.jpg/411px-Carta_identita_italiana.jpg[/spoiler]
Italy

So what would be the point of a national ID card, given it already exists? Or are you telling me in the UK you don't have such things?

[kojak]

I think eveyone should have a chip in their arm, that would be used for:

Banking
GPS
Even your car,

imagine never forget ur keys again, or your walet / purse, no need for passports etc, also immigration would be better controlled and ID could be done with a simple scanner...
I know this has many flaws but just providing an opinion, and for the next 1 that say Big brother will know where you have been, yeah true... but... If you are innocent they will know youwasnt there etc.

Koji.

[Legendary Apophis]

I think eveyone should have a chip in their arm, that would be used for:

Banking
GPS
Even your car,

imagine never forget ur keys again, or your walet / purse, no need for passports etc, also immigration would be better controlled and ID could be done with a simple scanner...
I know this has many flaws but just providing an opinion, and for the next 1 that say Big brother will know where you have been, yeah true... but... If you are innocent they will know youwasnt there etc.

Koji.

I don't agree.
National ID cards, I agree.
Cameras on streets, I agree.
Eyes recognizing in some situations, I agree.

Chip in your arm or brain or wherever, I don't agree.

I pay with my credit card, it's fine like it is for this one.

[[KMA]Avenger]

@pops: we dont have a national ID card in the UK...nor would most UK citizens accept one. the UK Govt has been trying for years to get an ID card passed into law and the media have been hyping how good it would for just as long, but because they want to have as well as normal data on the car (DOB name and whatnot) they also want to put our DNA and other info on there that is not needed, they also want to have all of this extra info in a central database...

how can we trust ANY UK Govt with such info when they cant even be trusted with sensitive info recorded on lap tops which Govt officials leave lying around on the back seat of their cars and then when they get stolen and all the info (names, social security information with bank accounts and such) is in the hands of who knows what criminal, there is nothing ever done.

i'm sorry, but i wont accept any kind new ID, even if it has the most basic info on it, IE. name address DOB and photo only.

I think eveyone should have a chip in their arm, that would be used for:

Banking
GPS
Even your car,

imagine never forget ur keys again, or your walet / purse, no need for passports etc, also immigration would be better controlled and ID could be done with a simple scanner...
I know this has many flaws but just providing an opinion, and for the next 1 that say Big brother will know where you have been, yeah true... but... If you are innocent they will know youwasnt there etc.

Koji.

this whole post is so naive i'm not even gonna bother replying to it!

[Legendary Apophis]

@pops: we dont have a national ID card in the UK...nor would most UK citizens accept one. the UK Govt has been trying for years to get an ID card passed into law and the media have been hyping how good it would for just as long, but because they want to have as well as normal data on the car (DOB name and whatnot) they also want to put our DNA and other info on there that is not needed, they also want to have all of this extra info in a central database...

how can we trust ANY UK Govt with such info when they cant even be trusted with sensitive info recorded on lap tops which Govt officials leave lying around on the back seat of their cars and then when they get stolen and all the info (names, social security information with bank accounts and such) is in the hands of who knows what criminal, there is nothing ever done.

i'm sorry, but i wont accept any kind new ID, even if it has the most basic info on it, IE. name address DOB and photo only.

I think eveyone should have a chip in their arm, that would be used for:

Banking
GPS
Even your car,

imagine never forget ur keys again, or your walet / purse, no need for passports etc, also immigration would be better controlled and ID could be done with a simple scanner...
I know this has many flaws but just providing an opinion, and for the next 1 that say Big brother will know where you have been, yeah true... but... If you are innocent they will know youwasnt there etc.

Koji.

this whole post is so naive i'm not even gonna bother replying to it!

How do NON drivers get recognized by police in your country then?

(is astonished by UK not having National ID cards)

No wonders governement wants to implement it!

[[KMA]Avenger]

ever heard of passports or DOB certificates or utility bills???

[Legendary Apophis]

ever heard of passports or DOB certificates or utility bills???

Passports are used in France by immigrants or people from other countries. Or from french citizen when they go outside of EU.
DOB certificate we got it here too I think, it's rarely used due to lower functionality compared to ID card (we don't want to carry tons of papers while we got all in one). Utility bills...unsure. But also a problem of carrying it on.

So, which other countries don't have ID cards like I posted in spoilers?

[Kit-Fox]

In the UK the state exists by validation from the people, not othe other way around! This long standing precedant is why the UK has only ever had ID cards during offically declared war (such as ww1&2). Where the chance of infiltration into the country was rather high.

In fact in the 50s shortly after ww2, a driver was stopped by the police who demanded he show them his ID card, he refused saying he didnt need to prove who he was to anyone and that it was upto the police to prove who he was & that he was breaking the law. The poor guy was promptly arrested for failing to produce an ID card. At the court hearing the judge was rather let say annoyed with the cops for wasting his time for something so trivial and brought a verdict of not guilty, during his summing up of the case the judge said 'the ID cards make criminals out of ordinary people, who have done nothing wrong'

On this verdict the goverment of the day had no choice but to repeal the ID act of the time and stop the police and other government agencies from demanding identifaction from the public.

----------------------

Todays ID card act is even more invasive than the ones we had during war time, in fact not only that but it is more complex & demanding on the citizen than any other ID card system in the world! (and yes that is a verifiable fact)

Todays ID card act, should you be stupid enough to 'volunteer' for one will create several offences.

Such offences are ;

- Failing to update your photo every 10 years (at your cost)

- Failing to update your address / name and getting a new card with those updated details on (again all at your expense)

The ID card will cost over £100 per card which will be paid by those applying for the card. The offences have fines that can reach up to and in some cases over £2000.

Your details will be held for 100 years minimum and be acessible to every government worker / local council worker / health worker / police /ambulance / fire service & even in some cases the local school employees. I should point out that at the current time the rough estimate of the amount of people who will have access to your data is over 2million people.

The system will create links from your ID record to your health record, police record (if you have one) and any other record held on you by the gov (ie contactpoint etc) so all these workers who have access will be able to see you were treated for an STD 12 years ago or that you were arrested/cautioned for say littering when you were 16.

It is invasive & changes the long held british principle that the state exists only at public sufferance & to serve the public. Under the ID card act we exist to serve the state & if we annoy the state well at the puch of a button we wont exist anymore and the state can effective kill off your life.

I should also point out that at the moment it is being touted as a 'voluteer' thing, it isnt. Slowly by means of designated documents they are starting to make it impossible to get certain job or documents without an ID card. Soon that wil lbe extended to driving licences & passports.

[Legendary Apophis]

I wouldn't feel secure in the UK...or any other country not having national ID card. Passports, given their worldwide nature, are soo much a target for forgery it's not even funny!
All the heavy criminals having more easiness to walk freely without being worried. Not to mention if you have to carry on real and not "metaphorical" papers the need to have space.

Wow, I'm glad to live where I live!

[Kit-Fox]

I have two words to say to those living in europe, do you not remember these two words??

papieren bitte