sovereignty & patriotism vs all...

[Legendary Apophis]

I prefer to support EU than french nationalism.
I know some people who are pro european and aren't against France. I am amazed by what I'm reading here, and would feel bad if I was to think so.

What a shortsighted view of things..

What you both describe remind me of this smiley:



Oh well, that's bit strange that I am defending France symbols when some thugs decide it's fun to insult the flag and do silly things...oh well...

[Kit-Fox]

We arent saying that if you are Pro EU then you are against France.

You might be Pro EU and not against France in the slightest

But you cannot profess to be loyal to France if you are as you say Loyal to/Pro EU. That would be serving two masters as it were & not possible

[Legendary Apophis]

We arent saying that if you are Pro EU then you are against France.

You might be Pro EU and not against France in the slightest

But you cannot profess to be loyal to France if you are Pro EU. That would be serving two masters as it were & not possible

I might have misunderstood then.

What were you talking about?

Light patriotism with respect of symbols of country, but who also thinks of EU stuff and compromises interests, or nationalism thinking that *only* France matters?

[Kit-Fox]

Ok, one last time.

IF you want to be loyal to the EU that is all fine & dandy, we really dont care.

However, you cannot be loyal or serve two masters.

Ie you cannot be loyal/serve France if you are loyal/serve the EU.

This doesnt mean that if your are loyal/serve the Eu then you must hate France, it doesnt mean anything as far as France is concerned, you can love/hate it or anything in between it if you must. You shouldnt however in good conscience serve the interests of France or profess loyalty to france as you would be lying.


Where do kids get educated these days ?

EDIT: btw sorry KMA, I'm sure we've gone off on a tangent that you didnt intend. Not my original intention but there you go, sorry about that.

[Legendary Apophis]

Ok, one last time.

IF you want to be loyal to the EU that is all fine & dandy, we really dont care.

However, you cannot be loyal or serve two masters.

Ie you cannot be loyal/serve France if you are loyal/serve the EU.

This doesnt mean that if your are loyal/serve the Eu then you must hate France, it doesnt mean anything as far as France is concerned, you can love/hate it or anything in between it if you must. You shouldnt however in good conscience serve the interests of France or profess loyalty to france as you would be lying.


Where do kids get educated these days ?

EDIT: btw sorry KMA, I'm sure we've gone off on a tangent that you didnt intend. Not my original intention but there you go, sorry about that.

Meh, I don't want to complicate my existance with such questions of allegiance.
Quite useless and waste of time to spend my time wondering whom I side with.

[Juliette]

That kind of indivualistic disloyalty is why the Western world isn't going to survive the coming world panic.

[Legendary Apophis]

That kind of indivualistic disloyalty is why the Western world isn't going to survive the coming world panic.

I don't see how being loyal to France OR to EU is going to solve ANYTHING! (I mean, the "or", such as chosing one between both, *NOT* meaning there's no point in being loyal to any of above mentionned.)

I have NOT said I did NOT care about national&european issues. Otherwise, why would I appear almost everytime there's something about EU here, if I didn't care...


Me being part of guiltiness of downfall of Western countries..dohmygodermdamngrrmeh. That is an insult to me to pretend that I'm one of them. Because that's exactly the OPPOSITE I'm trying to do.

I have JUST said that I will NOT waste my time trying to find out whether I support MORE France or EU.

I'm more likely to be one of those thinking the most about potential future problems for western world in those forums. Not the contrary.

[Juliette]

The fact that you don't know, and you don't care, is exactly what I said.

That kind of indivualistic disloyalty is why the Western world isn't going to survive the coming world panic.

Apathic boy.

[Legendary Apophis]

The fact that you don't know, and you don't care, is exactly what I said.

That kind of indivualistic disloyalty is why the Western world isn't going to survive the coming world panic.

Apathic boy.

I'm not going to fall before false accusations that I'm among the political plague of the future. Especially when accusations have no solid backing. (read my previous post again..)
Your attempt at making me feel guilty because I don't want to choose between France and EU will not work.

Because oh shock horror, I do support both.

[Juliette]

Especially when accusations have no backing at all.

Don't be stupid. No one is accusing anyone of anything, and even if we were, what's it to you.

[Legendary Apophis]

Especially when accusations have no backing at all.

Don't be stupid. No one is accusing anyone of anything, and even if we were, what's it to you.

The fact that you don't know, and you don't care, is exactly what I said.

That kind of indivualistic disloyalty is why the Western world isn't going to survive the coming world panic.

Apathic boy.

That's nothing else than accusing me, due to my apparent stances, that I'm likely to be potentially part of disloyal and non caring people, guilty of potential future downfall.
"Apathic boy", if that's not an accusation..
My post shown the exact contrary to being "apathic", but oh well..

I have JUST said that I will NOT waste my time trying to find out whether I support MORE France or EU.

That doesn't mean I am non caring. It just means I don't want to have shortsighted view of things, opposing European Union and France like if they were rivals, which they aren't, or shouldn't be at least. Because as I said, I do care & support both.

[Juliette]

Nah, you know, you don't even try to understand it.
It's fine, I know you've got a lot of other, more important things to do, but don't come here, give me lip about how superior your understanding is if you don't even know what we're saying.
Just don't post if you don't understand it. Or be honest, and ask what is meant.


Now I understand Avenger's feeling of talking to a wall when we respond to other things than what he says..

[Legendary Apophis]

Nah, you know, you don't even try to understand it.
It's fine, I know you've got a lot of other, more important things to do, but don't come here, give me lip about how superior your understanding is if you don't even know what we're saying.
Just don't post if you don't understand it. Or be honest, and ask what is meant.


Now I understand Avenger's feeling of talking to a wall when we respond to other things than what he says..

The "I more important things to do" argument of mine was about whether I would be loyal to France or EU. I support both, I don't feel like confronting both and wonder which one I'm siding with, more than the other. If one day there's really to decide, I'll see.

I already asked what was meant, and I received zero answer to my question, and oh strange...it was other thing than what I asked, that was answered to me. So yes, I've felt like staying on my own interpretation, given I didn't receive proper answer.

So yes, I'll stop posting now. Because it's annoying me & giving me headache...

[[KMA]Avenger]

EDIT: btw sorry KMA, I'm sure we've gone off on a tangent that you didnt intend. Not my original intention but there you go, sorry about that.

not a problem my good man, in fact i welcome the slight deviation in this topic from time to time...just so long as i dont go off on one of those "how bad blah blah blah is" rants

Now I understand Avenger's feeling of talking to a wall when we respond to other things than what he says..

i see the penny FINALLY dropped



at pops, i dont understand you, i'm trying to understand you but its not happening. i'm talking about 1 specific thing you have said, "i dont want to waste time trying to find out who i am loyal to" or words to that affect, yes? if that is what you meant then why would you have to think who you are loyal to, which comes first EU or France??

lets make it easy for ou, 2 army's are approaching Europe, one has the sole intention of destroying the EU's parliament and killing all inside and then going home, and the other has the sole intention of destroying France, which one will you help to protect??



an excellent read so far


and BTW (@everyone) i can see things getting a little heated, so lets all try and stay focused and have a meaningful discussion *looks in Jims Direction*, this isn't a persecution of the EU or any other body/nation. the last thing i want mate is for you leave the thread...cool?

[Brdavs]

but there arent any other nations in Britian, there is only Britian.

Scotland & Wales stopped existing as countries in their own rights the moment they signed a piece of paper known as the 'Act of the Union'

Those names now only exist as regional titles

Via the same logic you allready owe your allegiance to the EU in accordance with established treaties.

You allready are a citizen of EU in addition to your national citizenship.

Infact, EU is vastly more democratic than the UK since the UK was united through (mostly) force and the EU is a completley contractually based.

And as for "serving 2 masters"... I do belive both Scottland and Whales have partial self-government in addition to westminster. They manage to pull it off.

People from manchester and liverpool / norht and south etc. also manage to root for their respective teams and at the same time for the three lions if you will.

I live in the historical carinthia & the feeling of identity with old regions is still strong. Yet I manage to be a citizen of my state and the EU at the same time.

You can split loyalties from a contintent down to your fammily if you want, it doesnt mean anything lol.
These things are layered as an onion. You`re just picking the two layers that work in your favour. I point out to you that for you aswell there are half a dozen more layers of your loyalty, ranging from your nation inside UK, region, -shire, town/are, heck even block.

youre able to go 4-5-6 step sup the ladder, you take more steps than enyone in the continental Europe (by taking the step up to being british), and the idea of taking one more step (up to also being EU) is weirdly strange to you hehe...






It really is quite hillarous. UK is the mini island EU brought to its extreme, yet the scotts, english and welsh will abhore EU. Imean you`d much sooner understand a frenchman and a german having their panties in a twist...







Fact is its pragmaticall aswell. World is getting multipolar. Russia is only going to get fatter off of petrodollars, Yankees are having their "problems" galore and China, well, a chink is 1 in 5 and they own 4/5ths heh.

Europe is either gonna band together and present a viable alternative pole or it`s gonna be swept aside into obscurity. Looking at the news of how being the 51st state is working out for GBR (another thing that makes a birt crying "sovereignty" funny btw), I`m gonna go with the first option.

Say what you will about Brussels, it`s still heck of a lot closer than Moskva, Peking or D.C.
Both mentally and geographicaly.